Start off in 2nd gear ?


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-Present)
  • Sponsored Links
vieuxmotard
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Motorcycle: 2003 GL1800

Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby vieuxmotard » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:53 pm



When I'm alone on the bike, I often start off in 2nd gear.
Is this a problem ?



User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:37 pm

As long as you're not slipping the clutch excessively, it won't hurt anything.

User avatar
Fatwing Chris
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Ont.,Canada
Motorcycle: 2004 ABS Model Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:32 pm

From what I've read since I bought my 1800 lots of guys do the 2nd gear start(no need to ride the clutch as there is more than enough power to do it) and some skip gears after getting rolling.1st gear is almost too low on these things,but I still use all the gears myself.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

User avatar
BigBear515
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:19 pm
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800
2006 Shadow
1985 XV 1000

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby BigBear515 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:33 am

No worries!! As stated before don't slip it, maybe just tad bit more fuel off the line but not much at all. I ride my 08 in Mardi Gras parades in New Orleans each year so I have to start out in 1st. for that!! But any other time 2nd is just fine....

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:06 pm

Technically second is not ok. Sure the bike will do it but you have to understand what happens inside the transmission and engine when you lug it excessively. Second gear is fine for slow riding like a parade but not for pulling away from a stop. Your proper shift RPM should be 3500 and this is near 15MPH. First is not too low.
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
Fatwing Chris
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Ont.,Canada
Motorcycle: 2004 ABS Model Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Fatwing Chris » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:02 pm

canuck623 wrote:Technically second is not ok. Sure the bike will do it but you have to understand what happens inside the transmission and engine when you lug it excessively. Second gear is fine for slow riding like a parade but not for pulling away from a stop. Your proper shift RPM should be 3500 and this is near 15MPH. First is not too low.


Back in the day I had a 69 1/2 440 6-Pack Roadrunner with a 4-speed and a 410:1 rear end.You could actually start off in 3rd without giving it any throttle hardly if you wanted to.The 1800 is the same way.It's got way more than enough balls to do 2nd gear starts and not hurt anything.BTW I said first was almost too low,not that it was too low.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:29 pm

Ok. According to Honda warranty repair stats the biggest cause of transmission wear and damage (not clutch) is from lugging the engine in too high a gear for the situation. Lugging the engine causes gear vibrations and excess pressure against the syncro and this can and does bend shift forks. I am not telling you how to ride, just stating mechanical facts. The same thing applies to riding around in 5th gear at 30MPH and suddenly accelerating. If what you are saying is ok with Honda they should only have given us a 2 speed transmission. :o
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
Fatwing Chris
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Ont.,Canada
Motorcycle: 2004 ABS Model Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Fatwing Chris » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:13 pm

canuck623 wrote:Ok. According to Honda warranty repair stats the biggest cause of transmission wear and damage (not clutch) is from lugging the engine in too high a gear for the situation. Lugging the engine causes gear vibrations and excess pressure against the syncro and this can and does bend shift forks. I am not telling you how to ride, just stating mechanical facts. The same thing applies to riding around in 5th gear at 30MPH and suddenly accelerating. If what you are saying is ok with Honda they should only have given us a 2 speed transmission. :o


Like I said I don't do the 2nd gear starts so you're not telling me how to drive anyway.As far as trannies go I doubt there is much you could tell me about them that I don't already know.I rebuilt trannies for a living for 15 years at a GM dealer.You can only learn so much about them just reading about them.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

User avatar
byoung85
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Motorcycle: 2012 Level 1 Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby byoung85 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:53 pm

I drive and teach semi truck as well as ride. My philosophy is the same on a motorcycle as in a big truck they put first gear there for a reason there fore i use it.

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:04 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:
canuck623 wrote:Ok. According to Honda warranty repair stats the biggest cause of transmission wear and damage (not clutch) is from lugging the engine in too high a gear for the situation. Lugging the engine causes gear vibrations and excess pressure against the syncro and this can and does bend shift forks. I am not telling you how to ride, just stating mechanical facts. The same thing applies to riding around in 5th gear at 30MPH and suddenly accelerating. If what you are saying is ok with Honda they should only have given us a 2 speed transmission. :o


Like I said I don't do the 2nd gear starts so you're not telling me how to drive anyway.As far as trannies go I doubt there is much you could tell me about them that I don't already know.I rebuilt trannies for a living for 15 years at a GM dealer.You can only learn so much about them just reading about them.


Just 15 years? I have 45 in with Ford before I decided to take a break from it. I have built transmissions since 1970. As far as motorcycles is concerned I don't know for sure but I think I have had more of them apart than you. Just thinking out loud here. Automatics are different than manuals but then you would know that. As far as reading.....well you read, then you do? Simple right?
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
Fatwing Chris
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Ont.,Canada
Motorcycle: 2004 ABS Model Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:07 pm

canuck623 wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:
canuck623 wrote:Ok. According to Honda warranty repair stats the biggest cause of transmission wear and damage (not clutch) is from lugging the engine in too high a gear for the situation. Lugging the engine causes gear vibrations and excess pressure against the syncro and this can and does bend shift forks. I am not telling you how to ride, just stating mechanical facts. The same thing applies to riding around in 5th gear at 30MPH and suddenly accelerating. If what you are saying is ok with Honda they should only have given us a 2 speed transmission. :o


Like I said I don't do the 2nd gear starts so you're not telling me how to drive anyway.As far as trannies go I doubt there is much you could tell me about them that I don't already know.I rebuilt trannies for a living for 15 years at a GM dealer.You can only learn so much about them just reading about them.


Just 15 years? I have 45 in with Ford before I decided to take a break from it. I have built transmissions since 1970. As far as motorcycles is concerned I don't know for sure but I think I have had more of them apart than you. Just thinking out loud here. Automatics are different than manuals but then you would know that. As far as reading.....well you read, then you do? Simple right?


Would you like me to bow down and pay homage now?I said I did it for a living for 15 years(auto's,standards,transfer cases and diffs).I was the go to guy for all of them first.I've been wrenching on just about anything with wheels and runs since the late 60's/early 70's and am still in the trade.I just don't build trannies anymore.
You ever get a Wing tranny in a basket(just a pile of gears,shims,shafts and forks) and put it together?I have.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:12 pm

No bows needed. You slung the experience stone first. I just replied. We are alike I am sure. I have received just about every conceivable automotive bag of parts just like you. Not bragging or trying to one up but I once was given a complete car. It came in many boxes and bags and I think there was a basket or two as well. It was some guys misguided attempt at a frame off restoration. Every last screw, nut, bolt and part was removed as well as every major piece, engine, trans, diff etc. had been disassembled. It took me a month just to lay it all out in the garage so I could start. It was an off and on type project but yes it ran again. Why did I tell you that? Because yes, I have done a motorcycle transmission and like the car they are just a puzzle that needs to be put back together again. Mechanically inclined people like us can do it. Some can not. But my point wasn't that I am a mechanic or that you are one as well or who is/was better. My point was that I have seen the type of wear on a syncro that lugging can cause and I only cautioned against it.

As far as bragging rights go I am a Ford Senior Master Technician in both Canada and the USA. 8-)
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:11 pm

canuck623 wrote:My point was that I have seen the type of wear on a syncro that lugging can cause and I only cautioned against it.


I'm just curious, if the gears are already past the syncros and locked up together (which they should be if you're accelerating), how can lugging the engine wear them?

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:52 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
canuck623 wrote:My point was that I have seen the type of wear on a syncro that lugging can cause and I only cautioned against it.


I'm just curious, if the gears are already past the syncros and locked up together (which they should be if you're accelerating), how can lugging the engine wear them?


The gears the synchro's slide onto to lock it into the next gear have tapered teeth. The gears themselves have a helical hypoid cut. When you lug the engine it applies force back through the drive shaft (that old equal opposite forces thing). That pressure can and does push the synchro ring away from the gear. This can bend the shift forks and can cause the gears then to disengage. It happens, it happens a lot. If the wear gets extreme and the fork is bent then you might even have a hard time getting it into the gear and keep it there. In a car or truck manual transmission gear kick out is one of the biggest complaints. Check with Honda warranty and see how many bent shift forks they replace. It's quite a lot. I know two riders here that have had it happen to them in the past few months. Common symptom is a shift bump. You shift up to 5th (or any gear that is damaged) and let out the clutch again but a second later you feel a bump and it finishes shifting into 5th.
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:30 am

canuck623 wrote:The gears the synchro's slide onto to lock it into the next gear have tapered teeth. The gears themselves have a helical hypoid cut. When you lug the engine it applies force back through the drive shaft (that old equal opposite forces thing). That pressure can and does push the synchro ring away from the gear. This can bend the shift forks and can cause the gears then to disengage. It happens, it happens a lot. If the wear gets extreme and the fork is bent then you might even have a hard time getting it into the gear and keep it there. In a car or truck manual transmission gear kick out is one of the biggest complaints. Check with Honda warranty and see how many bent shift forks they replace. It's quite a lot. I know two riders here that have had it happen to them in the past few months. Common symptom is a shift bump. You shift up to 5th (or any gear that is damaged) and let out the clutch again but a second later you feel a bump and it finishes shifting into 5th.


Of course, completely forgot about the helical cut gears. My only experience with transmissions is a Tex Racing T-10, which had straight cut gears and no such problems. I have a gear cluster with sheared teeth as a trophy in my garage. :)

User avatar
theback80
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:23 am
Location: Superior, WI
Motorcycle: 1999 Goldwing SE

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby theback80 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:03 pm

As far as you guys are up the experience scale on transmissions, I'm even further on the other end. Even though I don't know what you are talking about, I REALLY appreciate the conversation. I'm not one who skips 1st gear, but after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I'm someone who rides in to high a gear. I do cruise in 5th at a pretty low speeds. So I'll be changing my habits.

Thanks for the education!

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:12 pm

theback80 wrote:As far as you guys are up the experience scale on transmissions, I'm even further on the other end. Even though I don't know what you are talking about, I REALLY appreciate the conversation. I'm not one who skips 1st gear, but after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I'm someone who rides in to high a gear. I do cruise in 5th at a pretty low speeds. So I'll be changing my habits.

Thanks for the education!


You may notice a slight increase in fuel mileage as well. The engine is designed for maximum efficiency when it runs in the 3000 RPM range. I use 5th for speeds above 50mph only. I try and maintain that 3K rpm most of the time. Can't always do it but I try.
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
WOJCIECH
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:39 am
Location: Pabianice Poland
Motorcycle: GL 1800 2009
GL 1800 2009 trike Redwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WOJCIECH » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:34 pm

And I know all this-a good use of the clutch to not slip up, as it happens in parades motorcycle! and the motor? withstand all!

User avatar
Fatwing Chris
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Ont.,Canada
Motorcycle: 2004 ABS Model Goldwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Fatwing Chris » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:53 pm

canuck623 wrote:No bows needed. You slung the experience stone first. I just replied. We are alike I am sure. I have received just about every conceivable automotive bag of parts just like you. Not bragging or trying to one up but I once was given a complete car. It came in many boxes and bags and I think there was a basket or two as well. It was some guys misguided attempt at a frame off restoration. Every last screw, nut, bolt and part was removed as well as every major piece, engine, trans, diff etc. had been disassembled. It took me a month just to lay it all out in the garage so I could start. It was an off and on type project but yes it ran again. Why did I tell you that? Because yes, I have done a motorcycle transmission and like the car they are just a puzzle that needs to be put back together again. Mechanically inclined people like us can do it. Some can not. But my point wasn't that I am a mechanic or that you are one as well or who is/was better. My point was that I have seen the type of wear on a syncro that lugging can cause and I only cautioned against it.

As far as bragging rights go I am a Ford Senior Master Technician in both Canada and the USA. 8-)


Yeah GM had the same program and I was Grand Master Tech for as long as I was there.I'm not surprised that you are recognized in both countries as the vehicles are the same in both.Pretty sure that would be the same for any manufacturer that had dealers in both countries.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

User avatar
eklimek
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:55 pm
Location: St Catharines Ontario Canada
Motorcycle: 81 GL1100 (Widowmaker not in service), 83GL1100, CB350f x 6, CB400f x2, CB550f sold, CL350 (seized engine), plus enough donors to take me through retirement.

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby eklimek » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:44 am

Excuse the tangent here, but did anyone see the reverse trike in photo by

WOJCIECH

What is it? Tell me everything about it.

User avatar
canuck623
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Motorcycle: 2008 GL 1800 Level 3

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby canuck623 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:53 am

There is this one. http://ido-endeavor.com/

And this one. http://genesgallery.com/index.php?route ... uct_id=972

As far as knowing much about them, I don't. I have seen one with the skin off but haven't looked into the mechanicals or costs. It does solve one thing that has always been an issue with rear wheel trike kits and that is stability in extreme cornering situations.
2008 GL1800
1990 GL1500
1986 GL1200
1983 GL1100
1982 CBX 1000
1972 CB750
1966 305 Dream

User avatar
WOJCIECH
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:39 am
Location: Pabianice Poland
Motorcycle: GL 1800 2009
GL 1800 2009 trike Redwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WOJCIECH » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:44 am

hello! the vehicle is I built in 2009, see the photo!
http://e-trike.pl/g/trajka-wojtka
Now is a little converted!
like something you are interested, write!
adalbert19812o2.pl

User avatar
Peteswing
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 9:40 am
Location: Wellington, Fl
Motorcycle: 2010 GL1800
Double Darksider #856

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby Peteswing » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:46 am

I don't like the way it reacts or sounds taking off in 2nd. I use 1st gear all the time and just get out of it quickly. From what I read 1st gear is just a taking off gear anyhow.

User avatar
WOJCIECH
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:39 am
Location: Pabianice Poland
Motorcycle: GL 1800 2009
GL 1800 2009 trike Redwing

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby WOJCIECH » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:58 am

remember one thing! transmission is not synchronized as in a car and you need to learn to switch gears!

User avatar
3 4 the road
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:34 pm
Location: Clinton, Washington
Motorcycle: 2008 Honda Goldwing Trike

Re: Start off in 2nd gear ?

Postby 3 4 the road » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:06 pm

canuck623 wrote:
theback80 wrote:As far as you guys are up the experience scale on transmissions, I'm even further on the other end. Even though I don't know what you are talking about, I REALLY appreciate the conversation. I'm not one who skips 1st gear, but after reading this thread, I'm pretty sure I'm someone who rides in to high a gear. I do cruise in 5th at a pretty low speeds. So I'll be changing my habits.

Thanks for the education!


You may notice a slight increase in fuel mileage as well. The engine is designed for maximum efficiency when it runs in the 3000 RPM range. I use 5th for speeds above 50mph only. I try and maintain that 3K rpm most of the time. Can't always do it but I try.


canuck623
I have only had my 06' GL 1800 since the first of the year. I tend to shift by what "sounds" good to me for engine rpm. But my owner's manual gives some really, really low mph's for shifting gears:

1st to 2nd: 12 mph
2nd to 3rd: 19 mph
3rd to 4th: 25 mph
4th to OD: 31 mph

OD to 4th: 22 mph
4th to 3rd: 16 mph

I certainly like the sounds at 3000 rpm better than what I get from some of the recommended speeds by Honda. I think I will take your recommendation, unless someone comes up with a reason not to.




Return to “GL1800 Information & Questions”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest