Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-Present)
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yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:27 pm



Bike has 27k, 06 1800, just started having erratic cold start fluctuating between 1000-2000 rpms, which lasts for about three miles of driving. Then it is normal. The rpms are all over the place.

Ambient temps between 70-80 degrees. Last time I had any idle issues it was the fuel mapping chip which was causing the lights to dim when the clutch was pulled in.

http://wingstuff.com/products/31301-gip ... indicators
I have a gear shift indicator which has been on the bike for about 10k miles. No issues with that until today. When the clutch is depressed, the indicator now shows #6, then counts down one number at a time to #1 in one second intervals. Will be checking with the manufacturer tomorrow.

Lastly, the bike only starts in neutral.

Honda shop sales manager I know suggests a battery issue. Same recommendation last time before the fuel chip was replaced. Not seeing any reason to suspect that being the case. The battery is a couple years old, has less than 6 k miles use and kept in the house on the charger all winter.

IMO, all three seem to be related to the cp.

Looking for any ideas before having it towed to the dealer.

Thanks in advance!



yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:02 am

Heal Tech support says the indicator has to be reset, they did not suggest why that happened. They also feel the other issues are not related and suggested their OBD diagnostic tool, for $300.

I will start with the side stand and clutch switches, rest the indicator and call with the cold idle issue last.

I just find it very odd all the issues started at nearly the same time.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

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WingAdmin
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Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:45 am

You've got a grounding issue. Generally when you have unrelated things going on like you describe, the problem is with a bad ground, and every one of the symptoms you have described - erratic start/RPM, dim lights, weird behavior of gear position indicator, can ALL be caused by a bad ground.

The fact that the behavior changes when you pull in your clutch lever also points at this: When you pull in the clutch lever, it connects the clutch sense wire to ground. The fact that the bike ONLY starts in neutral says there is definitely something wrong there.

Any decent mechanic diagnostician should be able to see this straight away. People telling you that you need to replace your battery, and that you need an OBD diagnostic tool...well, I wouldn't be doing business with them in the future. I have to say, I'm fairly certain there was also nothing wrong with your fuel mapping chip, because it can't possibly cause lights to dim when your clutch is pulled in. Completely separate circuit. I think more likely they moved the bad ground when replacing that chip, which "fixed" the problem - temporarily.

As for checking the clutch/kickstand switch - looking at the starting diagram below, let's first figure out what is happening with your clutch switch. The switch itself is in all likelihood good, as if it was bad, nothing would happen when it was pulled in.

With the sidestand up, put an ohmmeter between ground and the green/red wire on the clutch switch. Pull in the clutch switch and check that you see continuity. I'm sure you will.

Next I would do the same thing, except check the Blue/Green wire on the reverse regulator assembly (which includes the starter logic diodes, which in previous Goldwings was always a separate component). If you do not see continuity to ground on that wire when the clutch is pulled in, then there is a problem in that assembly.

GL1800 Start Circuit
GL1800 Start Circuit


But I'm going to stay with my original assessment: a bad ground. There are two main ground connections on the GL1800 to check:

G1 is the system ground for the electronics and is attached to the motorcycle frame under the fuel tank.

G2 is the battery ground and is attached to the engine under the chrome cover on the right side.

Check these for looseness and corrosion.

G1
G1


G2
G2

yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:26 am

Greatly appreciate all the detailed info and pics!

As per the fuel mapping chip, that was indeed the issue as the rpms were dropping below 500, which at idle then made the lights dim. I am 100% sure on that one. Of the many hours I spent looking for an answer to that one, I only found one other person that happened to be on this forum, that also had the same problem. Considering that is a four hour pickup from the dealer to my house and it was done more than once, it was a significant expense.

The ground certainly could be a problem. Plus, the bike was entirely taken apart a couple years ago to have the tranny rebuilt.
Anything is possible.

I will start working on it in the am when its not 85 degrees out, and no garage.

Thanks!

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:28 am

yechave wrote:As per the fuel mapping chip, that was indeed the issue as the rpms were dropping below 500, which at idle then made the lights dim. I am 100% sure on that one. Of the many hours I spent looking for an answer to that one, I only found one other person that happened to be on this forum, that also had the same problem. Considering that is a four hour pickup from the dealer to my house and it was done more than once, it was a significant expense.


Ah, yes, dropping idle that low will definitely dim the lights. I was looking for a purely electrical connection/cause between the two, and there simply isn't one. :)

yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:16 am

Interesting in the process of ordering parts, the first questions the parts guy asked was did the cruise control work. Never really thought about it as I don't use it much... last I recall, it did not. There was just too much going on to worry about it at the time. However, if my first attempts to correct some of this do not work, he suggested the problem is the cruise control switch, for $27.

Hope to have tackled the first of this by next week.

Will update when we have something.

yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Here are the reset instructions for the shift indicator:

Setup
You need to setup the module after installation. When ignition is turned on, the
display counts backwards (6 to 1) indicating that the memory is clear.
- Raise the rear wheel off the ground by using a stand, and start the
engine in Neutral. (If you do not have a stand, you may setup the unit while
riding. Find a long, straight road with light traffic).
- The display will blink “1”.
Select first gear, release the clutch, and keep the RPM above idle speed.
The display is blinking faster while the unit is learning the gear.
- When the display shows “2”, select second gear.
Repeat this process until all gears are thought (5 or 6).
If your bike has 5 gears, wait until “6” is blinking, then pull the clutch in
and turn ignition off.
If your bike has 6 gears, wait until “o” (over) is indicated.
The unit is programmed and should indicate the gears correctly.
Now, when ignition is turned on, the display counts forward (1 to 6) indicating
that it is fully functional.
Reset
If some gears are not indicated correctly, reset the unit and setup it up again.
If you have a SpeedoHealer (or other speedometer calibrator) and you change
the calibration factor, probably you have to reset the GIpro and set it up again.
Cut off the power of the unit 6 times in a row, while the GIpro display is
counting up and shows 3, 4 or 5.
On most bikes, you can power on/off the display by flipping the engine RUN
switch on/off.
Otherwise, you can do this by cycling the ignition key 6 times (have the RUN
switch off).
On the next power up, the display will count backwards (6 to 1).
The memory is clear now and you can perform the Setup procedure.

yechave
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: Lehighton, Pa
Motorcycle: 2006 Gl1800

Re: Only starts in neutral..and other symptoms

Postby yechave » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:03 pm

All the problems were caused by the clutch switch. Under $25, two minutes to swap it out... thankfully.




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