2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-Present)
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TopGunPilot
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Motorcycle: 2002 Honda Goldwing GL1800

2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER

Postby TopGunPilot » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:07 am



This issue is about possible transmission problems after reading about many Goldwings that have had transmission problems as soon as 6,000 miles on them. This is ridiculous! Honda needs to wake up and smell the roses before I go back to Harley!

I have read every document on every forum that I can find but there does not seem to be a “Direct Answer” from very many people who have had this exact issue yet.

I have been riding bikes for almost 50 years. I started on a Mini Bike, then Yamaha 80, then Honda CB100, CB350, Nighhawk, Harley Sportster, Harley Ultra Classic and now this Honda Goldwing that was suppose to be made like a tank. The more I think about it, the bigger piece of junk I own.

I don’t speed shift. I am not hard on it. I drive the way I need to drive on the highway to stay alive and I don’t hammer it. I drive it like every other Road Captain in GWRRA drive their Goldwings. I’ve been through the BRC class and 3 ARC classes with it with no problems. But as soon as it got close to 100,000 miles, WHAM, BAM, Thank you Mam!

A few days a month, I might take the back roads to and from my destination but mostly it is all highway driving up to 90 miles maximum one way with a total of 200 in one day over the last year.

So in the last 12 months, I have only put 10,000 miles on it.

First a little history of the maintenance. I bought my 2002 Goldwing Gl1800 in May 2009 with 26,000 miles on it. The first time the Dealer mentioned the Powerhouse Advantage Plan to me, I bought it and have kept it up ever since so the Routine Maintenance has been like clockwork. If you think driving a Goldwing is cheap, think again.

All together, my estimate with the Powerhouse Advantage Plan, regular maintenance, tires, steering head bearings, brakes, tires and such the average cost is $ 0.24 cents per mile (not counting gas and Insurance).

May 2009, New tires front and rear.
December 2009, Front left fork seal.
January 2010, new battery, new water pump (hose was leaking so I replaced the water pump since they were looking right at it).
May 2010, Rear brake pads.
June 2010, New back tire 37,600 miles.
June 2010, New front tire and front pads 38,161.
June 2010, New throttle grip (the old one slipped off).
July 2010, New throttle pull cable.
March 2011, Front left fork seal out again 50,700.
April 2011, New front tire 51,511.
July 2011, New battery 56,770.
September 2011, Rear pads 59,902.
September 2011, Front pads left side, 59,902.
October 2011, Front tire, 62,000.
October 2011, Rear tire, 62,933.
December 2011, ANOTHER Front Left Fork Seal, 63,816.
April 2012, Rear tire (Metzler), 68,762.
July 2012, Front tire cupping, 72,074.
September 2012, Front left pads, Rear Tire (Metzler), 76,072
October 2012, Another battery.
October 2012, Front tire, 77,624.
December 2012, Rear tire (Elite 3) 81,100.
July 2013, Front left fork seal showing wear again.
July 2013, Front tire (Metzler), 90,395
September 2013, New Starter Solonoid, 95,747.
October 2013, Rear Tire (Dunlop Elite 3 MT), 96,770
October 2013, Front left pads.
May 2014, Front left fork seal, 98,800.

Now the Real stuff:
June 2014, New Clutch, Rear Rotor Disc, Rear Pads, 100,400.

Toward the last six months of 2013, the shifter started grinding occasionally during shifting into 5th gear. Every once in awhile, if I was on the freeway and needed to hit the throttle to speed up, the clutch would slip briefly and then catch. It was not doing it enough to even bring attention to the Dealer.

In May 2014, after watching an ARC for a few hours and doing no more than 15 minutes of patterns a few minutes at a time, everything was normal. On the way home, the clutch slipped in third and forth gear. The following day, it was slipping quite often in 5th gear. So the clutch was replaced in June.

All of the sudden in the last six weeks, the “Ghost Shift” from 5th to 4th gear would happen a few times (no more than three). During the last week or so, while in 5th gear, the bike would “KICK” occasionally if hit by a headwind or going up a hill. At first, it would only happen on the freeway. Now it is happening at speeds over 40 MPH and can happen by something as simple as applying power to it.

The Service Manager says, “It’s the transmission, go easy on it! It will cost thousands to fix it!” He said it’s not made to do parking lot practice. Well, okay but I don’t see any other Goldwings or Harleys having a problem after a few nights of practice like that.

I know many of you have had transmission problems and I’ve seen you get hammered about how you might be driving, or you might have a bent shift lever. Don’t go there! It’s not the Driver!

If you have had issues like this, was it the transmission or the Gear Box?

How can they tell what is wrong with it since it might only “KICK” once or twice on their 5 minute Test Ride without ripping it apart down to the Engine?

What did it cost to fix at a Dealer?

How many hours labor are we talking about here ($100 an hour)?

How much will I pay in parts to have the transmission fixed?

What did they do to it and did it fix the problem or were you like the guy who spent $4500 on his transmission only to have the same thing happen 90 days later?

NOW MY CONCERN is whether to keep driving it local and keep it in 4th gear, or park it until I can afford to fix it?

Some Riders say it’s okay to keep it in town under 50 MPH, don’t shift into 5th gear at all but keep riding.

Other Riders have suggested, “Park it until you can afford to fix it because continuing to ride it and shifting into 5th will cause more damage to the gears, if not LOCK IT up completely!

Is there a chance this $25,000 machine will lock up the rear end and throw me into the ditch? Mercy!


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Fatwing Chris
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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or O

Postby Fatwing Chris » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:31 am

If you want to know exactly what a repair will cost you should go to the GL1800Riders.com and PM GoldwingGreg.He repairs lots of these and has a machine shop that improves the stock gears by undercutting the dogs on the gears.
Apparently the 2014 did get some tranny upgrades.Took Mother Honda way too long to address this issue IMHO though.Although you do hear about quite a few tranny problems compared to how many 1800's are on the road the # of trans problems is relatively small.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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Coolest
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Motorcycle: 2007 GL1800A7

Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or O

Postby Coolest » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:23 pm

Hi,
At last someone has the exact same problem as I had on my 2007 Goldwing.
Dealership didn't want to know because I was outside of warranty despite me taking it to them a few times while still under warranty with this very problem. ****.
I ended up stripping the engine myself because they said it would cost a minimum of £3,000 ($4,500) to repair.
The cause was very apparent, staring me in the face as soon as I opened the crank cases.
The 2nd & 3rd gear are a single piece of two cogs with dogs either side. When you select 5th gear the 2nd/3rd gear cog slides laterally along the shaft to engage it's dogs with the dogs on the 5th gear. But when they do this they only connect with a few millimetres, whereas when you shift down, the dogs on the opposite side of that 2nd/3rd gear engage fully with the corresponding gear! So. Everytime you select 5th you only get partial engagement! One side you get about 8mm of solid contact & the other side about 2mm!! By the way. The dogs have rounded edges (not machined, just cast) making them even more vulnerable to pushing apart, rather than having a good machined square edge where they would lock together better. Obviously Honda know this. They designed it & decided to accept this flaw, probably thinking there is less torque going through the two gears than there is in a lower gear. (I'm going to try & attach some pictures I took, 5th gear on the right & the 3rd/2nd gear to the left of it). I tried to claim off Honda afterwards showing clearly the design fault. I've done around 30,000 miles since my rebuild & within the last week it has started to jump occasionally out of 5th again.
You mentioned your clutch. Initially when I had the fault i felt a "Click" through the clutch lever every time I changed into 5th. This is not a clutch problem though. After I replaced the selector fork and the corresponding gears the "click" had gone. The transmission on the new 2014 gold wing is exactly the same. Thats why I'm not upgrading to the new model.
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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or O

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:36 pm

This is nothing new, it's been going on for as long as GL1800's have been made. Do a search for "Ghost Shifting" and you'll find a ton of people with the exact same issue.

There was even a class action suit against Honda for this issue a while back, I have no idea what ever happened with it:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 6760650484

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TopGunPilot
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Motorcycle: 2002 Honda Goldwing GL1800

Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or O

Postby TopGunPilot » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:53 pm

WingAdmin wrote:This is nothing new, it's been going on for as long as GL1800's have been made. Do a search for "Ghost Shifting" and you'll find a ton of people with the exact same issue.

There was even a class action suit against Honda for this issue a while back, I have no idea what ever happened with it:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 6760650484

---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to everyone for your replies so far. I really appreciate the feedback.

So am I reading this correctly, I need new gears (but won't know until they get into the gear box). I have actually shifting into 5th gear a few times now and then but it still clicks/slaps (whatever you call it) under pressure. In other words, going up a hill or applying throttle.

It was an issue that developed over time, with the shift into 5th being more of a grind. Sometimes (once or twice out of 100 shifts) it would actually jump out of 5th. Then one day after PLP, the clutch just started slipping and it was replaced.

Now, understand that we are talking about over 300 days in 6 years of me practicing slow speed motorcycle handing skills. Practice was never more than using 1st or 2nd gear and each run lasting no more than 10 minutes with a total of 30 minutes per day. So this CLUTCH has held up very well over the years.

Other than that, I spent 3 years riding the back roads with groups (Tail Gunner) and you all know that is a lot of curves and corners with brakes to slow, downshift one or two gears and haul it out of the curve at up to 90 miles an hour to catch up to the group.

Every once in a while, I would use a method called "Trail Braking". I'm talking very few times a week if that since my actual riding is down from 3000 miles a month to a few hundred, most being going to the Tri-Weekly Motorcycle Skills classes we have (Sunday, Monday, Wednesday) to help out.

When I told the Service Manager of the Dealer who has been servicing my Goldwing since day one, he said, "You need the transmission fixed and here is the gears we just replaced in another one (Cost was $4,000 for all 5 gears). The edge of each cog (I think that is what the gear things are called) was rubbed off and in some areas on the 5th gear, it was burned just like the image y'all provide me above.

What I have started hearing lately is a grinding noise as I start to slow down using the brake, then as I almost come to a stop, downshifting 4, 2, 3, 1, it sounds like it may be hanging in between the gears..
========================================
So my plan is when I get the money, put it in the shop for the following items:
1. Repair the transmission, perhaps replacing all the gears since I plan on keeping it for another 200,000 miles.

2. Replace the water pump/hoses/clamps (this one has 70,000 miles on it, evidence of very slow leak or evaporation (it was 2 ounces low when checked yesterday "cold" sitting on the Center Stand). The temperature also creeps up to the "H" mark after 15 minutes of practice when the temperature here in Texas is over 90 degrees.

3. Replace the Thermostat and gaskets.

4. Replace the Steering Head Bearings...

I do have the "POWERHOUSE ADVANTAGE" PLAN, where they change the oil every 3,000.
This plan costs $1200.00 and is good for 3 years, unlimited mileage.
It also has 6,000 and 12,000 mile Service Requirements (air filters, flush the clutch fluids and brake fluids, etc.)

That should take care of it for a while. If you have anything else to add that you could recommend we do while we have it torn apart, please feel free to let me know.
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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or O

Postby Steve F » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:42 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:If you want to know exactly what a repair will cost you should go to the GL1800Riders.com and PM GoldwingGreg.He repairs lots of these and has a machine shop that improves the stock gears by undercutting the dogs on the gears.
Apparently the 2014 did get some tranny upgrades.Took Mother Honda way too long to address this issue IMHO though.Although you do hear about quite a few tranny problems compared to how many 1800's are on the road the # of trans problems is relatively small.

Like "Fatwing Chris" said, get a hold of Goldwing Greg on that forum he mentioned, and have him do the fixes. He's very thorough and know the GL1800 trans like the back of his hand. Many, MANY satisfied customers.
Steve F
"To ride is the reason, the destination the excuse."

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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER

Postby peppilepew » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:35 pm

Just an update for those interested. Honda is going to fight this one real hard. They settled on a class action for their automobile transmissions some years ago. I doubt there will be a settlement here.
Dismissed without prejudice I thought means it can't be refiled.




Judge Dismisses Honda Gold Wing Motorcycle Defect Class Action Lawsuit



By John Curran




Honda Motorcycle LawsuitPlaintiffs in a defective design class action lawsuit must amend their complaint to plead injuries to a person or property, a Florida federal judge ruled in granting Honda Motor’s motion to dismiss a complaint regarding malfunctioning shifters in its Gold Wing motorcycles.

According to the original class action lawsuit, Thomas Aprigliano and other owners suffered economic losses because their motorcycles necessitated repairs to the transmission due to “ghost-shifting” or the system acting without rider input. However, judicial precedent in Florida requires that to allege a tort such as strict liability, negligent misrepresentation or fraud, Aprigliano or the other plaintiffs would need to assert an injury.




Otherwise, U.S. District Judge Cecilia M. Altonaga wrote, the question of whether or not the product is defective as a result of not meeting warranties or causing injury to itself is a matter of contract law. In addition, Judge Altonaga addressed the breach of warranties section of the Honda motorcycle lawsuit and found significant areas of concern. Specifically, she took issue with the fact that none of the owners named in the class action lawsuit went to company dealerships for repairs within the warranty period, nor even after the written agreement expired. In the case of used motorcycle buyers, the fact that they bought the product out of warranty means “claims for breach of express warranty based on their GL 1800s’ factory warranties are not viable.”

The class action lawsuit also alleged fraud and negligent misrepresentation. Judge Altonaga dismissed these counts as well, noting that the motorcycle owners and their lawyers had failed to articulate when Honda officials were informed or knew of the alleged defective design of the Gold Wing motorcycles, which is “particularly troubling considering Plaintiffs otherwise plead Honda’s knowledge and concealment of the defect ‘upon information and belief.'”

Aprigliano and other plaintiffs will have a second chance, however. Judge Altonaga dismissed the complaint without prejudice, and the Honda motorcycle owners and their class action lawsuit lawyers will have until the middle of next month to amend their complaint.

The plaintiffs are represented by J. Andrew Meyer and Tamra Givens of Morgan & Morgan PA.

The Honda Gold Wing Motorcycle Defect Class Action Lawsuit is Thomas Aprigliano, et al. v. American Honda Motor Co. Inc., Case No. 13-cv-22066, in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida.

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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER

Postby sm21 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:13 pm

Under extended warranty on my 2004 GL1800A, I Personally DID take it to Honda for the problem of it "jumping out of gear" between 2nd and 3rd, and told them I thought it had also done it between 4th and 5th, primarily 2nd/3rd though, this was back in 2010 or 2011, UNDER EXTENDED WARRANTY still... and I do have a ticket on it, though they tried to push it off/downplay it and said I wasn't shifting right... Mileage at that point, under 28k!!!
Guess what, got me a 2010 GL1800A here recently, STILL UNDER WARRANTY, doing the same dang ghost shifting or "jerk"/slip... mileage on it, was in the 15k's, now right about to hit 18k... STILL has the warranty, WILL FIGHT IT TOOTH AND NAIL!

They did some crap back on the fork seals about 28k too... the "shop" said there was some foreign screw in there so Honda wouldn't honor the warranty... EVEN SPOKE to them on the phone/escalated over and over, and had them look at their own diagrams... there's no place for any screw so how could a foreign one been in there?

They're just trying to screw us on the warranties! ... yes, this was a Honda extended warranty (and think my new one is too!)...

One heck of a reason to want to ditch them... too bad, the bike runs amazing, except these transmission problems... and I can't afford that, nor should I have to because of their defect!

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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:16 pm

It has to be said, when it comes to dealer quality and dealer support, Harley Davidson has it all over Honda.

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Re: 2002 Goldwing GL1800 Possible Transmission Problems or OTHER

Postby 702scottc » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:28 am

After reading this post I'm really starting to question my decision purchasing the 2005 I bought? I'm just finishing up repairing my 1500 for the same type of transmission issue. Sounds like the 1500 transmission issues continued with the 1800's. There has to be a common denominator with these reported failures, it hasn't effected all of them made or you would hear a lot more about it? I purchased this 2005 largely on the recommendation of a coworker who rode a 2002 and had 200, 000 miles on it when he sold it. Never had transmission issues and rode the crap out of it. The couple he sold it to are still riding it. I have talked to a number of 1800 owners over the years and non reported any transmission issues or they where keeping it to themselves? This is unsettling since I have invested 11 grand on this bike.




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