12v External Fans installed


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FourTgran
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12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Fri May 01, 2015 4:25 pm



Hey all I heard that someone had installed a 12v fan with a switch to the grill side of each radiator on a Gl1800 to help with the overheating problem in parade mode. The switch is used to turn the fans on to add extra cooling while stuck in traffic. Has any one here tried this method, and does it work or help?



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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby WingAdmin » Mon May 04, 2015 10:57 am

I think it would be easier (and less complex) to add a switch that ran the existing fans backward. That way, instead of blowing forward, against the force of the low speed air moving forward, they sucked air from the front and out through the side grills, like the GL1100/GL1200/GL1500 do.

I'm sure it won't run quite as efficiently in reverse, so I wouldn't want to leave it like that all the time (at least not without physically reversing the fan blades), but it would certainly help with the slow speed overheating issue.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby harvey01 » Mon May 04, 2015 11:26 am

I am not sure I would like the look of my Wing with fans mounted outside the fairing blowing air back through the radiator. The problem exists even when the OEM fans are operating to blow air from the engine area through the radiators and out the side of the bike. At a certain speed between about 15 and 20MPH the wind from the bike moving is causing the air blown by the fans to be still and thus the radiators are not getting moving cooler air,

Depending on the year of your Wing, Honda has altered the fuel flow to enhance cooling, added larger radiators and several other things to reduce or eliminate the problem. I know a lot of the changes happened with the 2006 model. Mine is a 2004 and it had a recall for a new ECM which had the revised fuel programming. I was under the impression that all 2001 thru 2005 units had been recalled.

Owners have reversed the fans to try to eliminate the problem, and owners have added manual switches to try to solve the problem. Frankly I have not heard this problem discussed for a number of years as most of us had the recall, and learned to work around the problem. Cruising in a higher gear helped also.

If you are experiencing the problem and you have an early GL1800, I would check with the dealer to see if that recall and some others were ever done to your bike.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby Steve F » Mon May 04, 2015 12:03 pm

Stock configuration has the fans blowing toward the front when driving under 15 MPH (not sure why they have them blowing that way, but that's Honda engineering for ya). Common practice for those wishing to reverse this flow from factory mode involves removing the fans and reversing the fan blades on the shaft, and then reversing the polarity on the motor. Since the fan blades move air better in only ONE direction, reversing them on the motor shaft is necessary. Simply reversing the polarity will result in a fan that's very ineffecient.
And THEN you can install a switch to operate them manually.
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FourTgran
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Mon May 04, 2015 11:38 pm

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. My wing is a 2002. Two different Honda dealers checked for all recalls and confirmed that all were done. They also checked for heating problems (water pump, plugged radiators, fans running, and thermostat). I'm in Florida and it's not summer yet. Stop and go traffic is scary. My temp gauge gets very close to the red. Maybe I'm overheating more than the bike. I guess I just don't want to blow the engine or a head gasket.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Tue May 05, 2015 3:33 pm

FourTgran wrote:Hey all I heard that someone had installed a 12v fan with a switch to the grill side of each radiator on a Gl1800 to help with the overheating problem in parade mode. The switch is used to turn the fans on to add extra cooling while stuck in traffic. Has any one here tried this method, and does it work or help?


There was a reply by (upssnowman) with this link
http://www.bikeweekmag.com/goldwing/fanparts.htm

I tried to pm this person and got no response.

Just curious and desperate. I need this problem fixed if it is a problem :?: or is this just the nature of the 2002 Goldwing I don't know.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby texwing » Sun May 10, 2015 10:35 pm

I just read the above link regarding the 12V fan install...would love to hear from anyone about this, good idea or not? At least this one is hidden. I have a 1988 that sure likes to run hot, especially in traffic (parade mode), this might be an option, assuming all else is working properly (I am suspicious of a faulty thermostat, but that is another topic!) If someone could expound on the electrical wiring/hookup, as I am no electrician? Much appreciated. Good luck with solving your problem.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby PastoT » Fri May 29, 2015 2:38 pm

Adding fans to those already present will be an issue. Venturing a guess reversing the fan rotation with a manual switch is likely what was being proposed, but this is rarely more efficient in cooling the engine. First the reversed rotation of the fans blades makes them less efficient for air flow and what they pull in and push across the radiators is hotter air than what they would normally pull in from through the sides of the fairing thus also reducing the radiator efficiently. They work like a car radiator fan pulling cooler air in through the radiators and pushing the slightly warmer air from the radiator through the much warmer engine compartment. Our issue is the air pushed through is ejected forward and against the incoming air. The fans run automatically to about 30mph but between 15 and 20 the airflow against and into the front of the fairing is equal to that being pulled in by the fans, thus no airflow occurs and the heat rises. Since Honda addressed this years ago and there are still a few that this occurs to I too wonder if the temp gauge/sensor are out of whack. I bought an infrared no touch temperature gun from Harbor Freight to check my engine temps (always wondered why my left foot was warmer than my right). I use this thermometer to check the head temps and see if they are different left to right, but it would be handy to confirm the engine is overheating or the gauge is just saying its hotter than it actually is. If its not actually over heating than the sender or gauge are faulty. Now if it is actually running hot then I think I'd be looking for a manner to evacuate the accumulated heat out the back of the fairing. Frankly I think its a sensor, poor coolant flow or something like shorter than stock spark plugs (they are hotter burning); I've ridden my 02 in 120+ temps and never hit red zone but did come very close in a state park riding 15-20mph, cooled in a minute or so once I stopped and idled. I've considered modifying my lower leg vents by opening up the air tube within the fairing so radiator air flow could exit the back of the fairing. Measure the real engine temp first and verify it is an real issue, before starting mods that are likely irreversible. Stronger Higher RPM fans may work but finding some that would fit will be the issue.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby Snowmoer » Sun May 31, 2015 1:38 pm

texwing wrote:I just read the above link regarding the 12V fan install...would love to hear from anyone about this, good idea or not? At least this one is hidden. I have a 1988 that sure likes to run hot, especially in traffic (parade mode), this might be an option, assuming all else is working properly (I am suspicious of a faulty thermostat, but that is another topic!) If someone could expound on the electrical wiring/hookup, as I am no electrician? Much appreciated. Good luck with solving your problem.


Tex,
The 1500 fans are different than those on the 1800. The 1800 pulls air from the side of the bike, through the Rad, and then out the front of the bike. When in parade mode, the air pressure is not enough to go through the Rad when the fans are on and nothing moves. On your 1500 the fans are behind the Rad and are pulling air from the front of the bike through the Rads and then out the side of the bike. From what I remember, Honda did the reverse because to many people were complaining about the hot air blowing on them when going slow.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby trad » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:12 am

I just finished installing external fans .I have a 2002 gl1800 trike ,and in parade mode the temperature gauge will go all the way up. The fans do help when in parade mode. Just keep an eye on temperature gauge and start fans b4 the temp gets hot.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby Ghostman » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:00 am

http://goldwing.eurekaboy.com/fanreversal.htm
Theres also this gentlemans mod on the 1800.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:09 pm

Ghostman wrote:http://goldwing.eurekaboy.com/fanreversal.htm
Theres also this gentlemans mod on the 1800.


Ghostman,
I like this setup. My question is do I need to reverse the fans in order to get the cooling results in parade mode? Seems like turning the fans on at will, at low speeds or stuck in traffic will cool the bike down enough. I just don't like the reversing fans idea (lot of work).

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby Ghostman » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:21 am

I would try the switch first to see if that would get you what you need and then go from there. As for efficiency of the fans running backwards maybe we could get some input from WINGADMIN about what happens when you run a propeilor backwards.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby tfdeputydawg » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:50 am

I'm sure it won't run quite as efficiently in reverse, so I wouldn't want to leave it like that all the time (at least not without physically reversing the fan blades), but it would certainly help with the slow speed overheating issue.
???? If one reverses the blade rotation, then reverses the blades, wouldn't the air flow be from the sides again??????

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby Steve F » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:40 am

tfdeputydawg wrote:I'm sure it won't run quite as efficiently in reverse, so I wouldn't want to leave it like that all the time (at least not without physically reversing the fan blades), but it would certainly help with the slow speed overheating issue.
???? If one reverses the blade rotation, then reverses the blades, wouldn't the air flow be from the sides again??????

The only way the airflow will change direction is by changing the rotation of the drive source. Reversing the fan on the shaft will not change the direction of the air flow....you must reverse the rotation of the drive source.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:21 pm

Ghostman wrote:I would try the switch first to see if that would get you what you need and then go from there. As for efficiency of the fans running backwards maybe we could get some input from WINGADMIN about what happens when you run a propeilor backwards.


I don't remember where it was that I read it, but someone did a test on the original OEM fans running them backward, and the amount of airflow dropped precipitously - to like 30% of normal. That's significant enough to cause overheating. Running the fans backward AND turning the fans around brought it up to around 70% of normal, but certainly better than 30%.

Apparently the way these fans are designed, they are quite inefficient when run backward.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby MikeB » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:24 pm

Go to the GL1800 Riders Board board and check out this posting.
http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?514130-Pashnit-cheap-fix-overheating

It is inexpensive, easy and easily removed. You do not have to remove the fairing to do the mod.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:48 pm

MikeB wrote:Go to the GL1800 Riders Board board and check out this posting.
http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?514130-Pashnit-cheap-fix-overheating

It is inexpensive, easy and easily removed. You do not have to remove the fairing to do the mod.

Does anyone have the thickness of the fans that were used for this method? The fans shone are 120mm x 120mm x 38mm. The clearance between the radiator and the shark fin is about 35mm. It was also mentioned that he used a bead of silicone. I have those same fans but they won't fit in that tight space without some grinding the thickness down.

I need a fix. Dealer says nothing is wrong. All recalls done. Something has to change. So reverse oem fans and airflow with a switch or the above method. Somebody says reversing the fans is the best idea while someone else says not a good idea. Somebody says cheap fix is best and works great, someone else says not a good idea. So ennee menne minee mo, or buy a Hartly. NOT!

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby MikeB » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:39 am

Me thinks you stress too much.

The fans are 25 mm thick. The fans are pretty standard in size. 120 mm x 120 mm x 25 mm. If you have a Fry's electronics close by, there is one in Orlando, or any computer supply store at all, go check out their supply of fans. There is plenty of room behind the shark fins for the fans. Mount the fans to the plastic radiator grills with small nylon tie wraps. Put a toggle switch in the left fairing pocket. If you don't like how they work, it is a simple task to remove them. Much less invasive than doing the OEM fan reversal procedure.

http://www.frys.com/product/8464218?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby pfalinski » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:55 pm

In regards to GL1800s overheating. I have a 2005 Wing with the Hannigan Tricar. Tricar adds 350 lbs. I also live in Tucson, AZ. It gets warm here, kind of like my bike. I'm not completely challenged when it comes to working on motorcycles, but I have a little trepidation removing everything that needs to be removed to reverse the fans. Yesterday I ordered a set of Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 140x140x25 mm Case Fans from Newegg. $60. They're an industrial version of standard case fans with an mtbf of 150,000 hours. Good dust protection and some water resistance. They put out 158 cfm of air which is one of the strongest fans I could find that was only 25mm thick. I plan on putting them on the outside of my radiators, blowing out, tie strapping them to start so I'm not cutting anything for them to fit. I will use a dpdt switch so when I want these new fans on it'll turn off the originals and vice versa. I'm still trying to figure out which wire would be best to splice into for the dpdt switch to turn off the original fans. Don't want the ecm to think something's wrong.
Any suggestions?
I'll post info when I'm done hopefully with some pics.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby FourTgran » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:33 pm

pfalinski wrote:In regards to GL1800s overheating. I have a 2005 Wing with the Hannigan Tricar. Tricar adds 350 lbs. I also live in Tucson, AZ. It gets warm here, kind of like my bike. I'm not completely challenged when it comes to working on motorcycles, but I have a little trepidation removing everything that needs to be removed to reverse the fans. Yesterday I ordered a set of Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 PWM 140x140x25 mm Case Fans from Newegg. $60. They're an industrial version of standard case fans with an mtbf of 150,000 hours. Good dust protection and some water resistance. They put out 158 cfm of air which is one of the strongest fans I could find that was only 25mm thick. I plan on putting them on the outside of my radiators, blowing out, tie strapping them to start so I'm not cutting anything for them to fit. I will use a dpdt switch so when I want these new fans on it'll turn off the originals and vice versa. I'm still trying to figure out which wire would be best to splice into for the dpdt switch to turn off the original fans. Don't want the ecm to think something's wrong.
Any suggestions?
I'll post info when I'm done hopefully with some pics.


Okay Mike you've got my attention. I checked out these fans and if they work like the stats, I might try them as well. Can't wait, very curious about the results. Get to work :D

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby pfalinski » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:47 pm

Okay. Got the fans and installed them using the dpdt switch. They worked perfect when the bike wasn't running. Took the bike out this morning run errands and took back streets to run in in the 20-30 mph range. After a few miles the temp went to the 2/3 mark. I moved the switch to my fans and nothing happened. My wife said they looked like they spun for a couple seconds and turned off. When I got home I thought maybe I had blown the fuse I put in. Fuse was good. 12V all the way to the fans but they were not turning. Only thing I can figure is that they worked just fine when I installed them and checked them with the bike not running. Believe me, I checked them multiple times to make sure my wiring was correct and I didn't screw anything up when I finished putting everything back together. My guess is that since they are actually computer fans, they aren't made for any voltage spike that the bike can have. I'm going to uninstall them and make sure but that's my guess. I'm bummed. Maybe some type of voltage regulator would've worked.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:58 am

Most computer fans have electronics mounted inside the hubs that control the speed of the fans:



It's possible the heat coming from the radiators overwhelmed and damaged these electronics. If the fans now turn stiffly, the heat might have damaged the bearings.

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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby pfalinski » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:28 pm

Bearings are okay. Fans still spin very freely. Could have been heat or voltage spike. Spikes on a bike are probably a lot higher with more amperage than a computer power supply puts out. Bummer is that testing the fans before I ran the bike, they seemed to put out a fair amount of air. They might have worked okay. Back to the drawing board. My wife and I are leaving next week for a 3 month trip to NY then down the East coast to Miami so my drawing board will be all in my head for a while.
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Re: 12v External Fans installed

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:57 pm

It could have been a spike or noise (however the spikes would be voltage, not amperage). You could use a choke and perhaps a capacitor or two to damp and suppress voltage spikes if that is in fact the problem.

Your wife said they looked like they turned on and then went off after a few seconds. Is it possible they are designed to only work on the (extremely) regulated 12 volts found in a computer, and that the 13.8+ volts regularly found on a running bike was too much for them, so the circuitry (or stators) burned out inside them?

If that's the case, a 7812 regulator (one for each fan) along with a capacitor or two would probably fix this problem - assuming the fans draw 1 amp or less (the capacity of a 7812).




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