SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-Present)
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fmcastro
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SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby fmcastro » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:20 pm



I AM USING SHELL ROTELLA T SYNTHETIC OIL. THIS WAS SUGGESTED BY CALSCI.COM. THIS OIL IS AS GOOD AS MOTORCYCLE SPECIFIC SYNTHETIC AND AT A MUCH LOWER PRICE. I AM ALSO USING A CAR OIL FILTER BY THEIR RECOMMENDATION (WALMART SUPERTECH #ST7317) MY ORIGINAL BATTERY LASTED OVER 9 YEARS (THANKS, BATTERY TENDER). I REPLACED IT WITH A 315 CCA FROM ADVANCED AUTO PARTS.



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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby Red Ron » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:56 am

Good for you. I use the ST filter also but I use the short one. I used to use Rotella for a long time (wing and other bikes) but started using the Mobile 1 10W30 (non energy concerving) in the 5 gallon jug. The bike shifts and runs better than with Rotella.

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby ogilly0753 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:15 pm

I am impressed with Amsoil. Shifting was way better than Honda synthetic. As for filters I have used Puraltor, amsoil and now using wix. I will probably be going back to purolator next oil change.
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nandyman1
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby nandyman1 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:52 am

I too am using the RotellaT synthetic for my wing got the info off calsci site also there is a lot of good info on that site. Haven't tried the st filter but have gotten others. BTW how many miles do you go between oil changes. So far my original battery is still living (6 years +) I use a battery tender when not riding as much.

fmcastro
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby fmcastro » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:21 am

I am doing 6K+. It takes a long time since I've had the bike 10 years, 1 month and it only has 27K on the clock. Ride safely. Fred Castro, Jupiter, FL

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nandyman1
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby nandyman1 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:32 am

I've been doing 10k between oil changes while using the synthetic I have over 72k on my 2005 bike with no issues

okstay
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby okstay » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:01 pm

What is the number on the "short" ST oil filter? Has anyone else used the ST7317 for any distance or time? Any problems? Thanks, Chris

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themainviking
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby themainviking » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:16 am

okstay wrote:What is the number on the "short" ST oil filter? Has anyone else used the ST7317 for any distance or time? Any problems? Thanks, Chris


Here is some info on oil filters for anyone wondering... firstly, filters that are not considered to be good enough due to inadequate quality or filteration standards:

Delco PF2135, Carquest 85358, FRAM PH6017A, K&N KN-204, NAPA Gold 1358, Purolator ML16817. Imported, not made by Purolator, STP SMO 07, WIX 51358.

Here are the longer filters mentioned:

Bosch 3323, Mobile 1 M1-110, Purolator Pur One PL14610, Supertech ST7317

And their shorter brothers:

Bosch 3300, Mobile 1 M1-108, Purolator Pur One PL14612, Supertech ST6607

Personally, I use Amsoil 10W40 Motorcycle 100% Synthetic (change at 10K miles) and the Amsoil Absolute Efficiency filter - EaOM103

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dragon2000
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby dragon2000 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:35 pm

Where everyone is looking to protecting their investment, I might also suggest installing a Magnetic Drain Plug.

I bought my Wing new last summer and installed it after the 1st oil change. I was surprised at how much it actually attracted between 5K Km oil changes. Right now I use regular Honda 10-40 oil however am going to change to full synthetic to reap its benefits.

Just my two cents
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MikeB
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby MikeB » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:23 pm

I have put over 150,000 miles on each of my GL1500's, the 1999 and the 1998 and am now working on my 2003 GL1800.

I have used the Wal-Mart short ST6607 and long ST7371 filters, they work as well as any other filter on the market.

I have used Mobil 1, Amsoil and Shell Rotella T and am now using Shell Rotella T6. I saw no difference with shifting amongst the synthetic oils but all of them made for better hot engine shifting than any Dino oil I tried, Honda, Castrol, Pennzoil and the like. I change oil around 5,000 miles but have changed as early as 2500 and as late as 7500 miles.

The motors still run smoothly and to be honest, I don't know of anyone with an engine oil related problem on a GL1500/GL1800.
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themainviking
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby themainviking » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:13 am

MikeB wrote:to be honest, I don't know of anyone with an engine oil related problem on a GL1500/GL1800.


And there's the rub, isn't there. I do not believe anyone who changes their oil within any sort of reasonable time schedule will ever have "oil related" problems. There is probably not an oil on the market which would cause, I say "cause" problems. Problems called "oil related" are always due to either lack of oil changes, or lack of oil. (lack of oil pressure falls into lack of oil) I am a firm believer in Amsoil specifically and synthetics in general, but in my opinion, Amsoil's offer to replace your engine if you suffer "oil related" failures is an empty offer. It would have to be proven to be the fault of the oil, and that just does not happen. It will never be the fault of the oil, specifically, unless it is a fault with equipment in which you add oil to the gasoline. Oil just does not cause failures - it prevents them. The key to long life in an engine is as the previous poster mentioned. Change your oil at reasonably frequent intervals and you will extend the life of your engine. An alternative is to use synthetics, and extend the time period between oil changes - by a little bit. However, one must still change oil. (and filters)
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby MikeB » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:50 am

I'm on board with that 100% Viking. You nailed it.
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okstay
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby okstay » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:37 am

It is mentioned that you have put over 150k miles on your 1500's but how much of this mileage was with the 7317 or 6607 oil filters? I paid well over 20k for my goldwing and I am hesitant to use an oil filter that has not been proven. It just makes sense not to gamble with such an expensive bike. If anyone has used one or both of these filters for extended mileage, please post it and then I will use them. They are considerably less expensive [and available at any Walmart] and if they do any equal or better job, then that is the way to go. I think this forum is a great place to learn about things like the oil filters because it is based on real life experience not the opinion of the manufacturer. Thanks again for all the useful info. Chris

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themainviking
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby themainviking » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:53 am

okstay wrote:It is mentioned that you have put over 150k miles on your 1500's but how much of this mileage was with the 7317 or 6607 oil filters? If anyone has used one or both of these filters for extended mileage, please post it and then I will use them.


As long as you change oil often enough, almost any filter, or even no filter if you could find a way, would suffice. With no filter, you would want to change the oil about once every thousand miles, and with inexpensive filters, 2500 or even up to 4000 is totally safe. The problems with inexpensive filters is that they tend to come apart under longterm usage. If it takes two years to put 2500 to 4000 miles on your bikes, then you should have already changed both oil and filter at least once in between. The recommendation is always X amount of miles OR one year. In addition, motorcycles that are stored for any period of time (like winter layups) should have the oil changed and be given a good run both before and after the oil change to ensure that acids which collect in the oil are dumped out and then washed away from the surfaces which the oil touches. The very tiny amounts of acid left after an oil change, when flushed into the total of the new oil are pretty much harmless.

If a motorcycle is stored for very long periods of time, it should be run once in a while, and the filter should still be changed once a year. Almost all filters are made of pleated paper, and this media breaks down when saturated with oil for lengthy periods of time. The very expensive and specialist filters are not made of pleated paper. Finding them is the chore. No machine should be stored for great periods of time without being properly prepared for this extended storage. This is why old BSAs, Harleys, Nortons, Triumphs that are found in old barns, stored for years, have to be torn apart and rebuilt before they become useable treasures.
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ogilly0753
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby ogilly0753 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:00 am

I have used the Pure One PL14612 with no problems. I am going to look into the Walmart brand next time, but may just go back to the Pure One. I presently have the WIX filter installed and no issues with that one even though the web page that has researched oils & filters did not recommend which I thought they did. The main thing is they are cheaper and are rated better than Honda's on that web page.
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby MikeB » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:16 am

On my '98, most of my filters were Honda until I could no longer get them at under $7.00 each. Then I used Fram and then Wix and then Napa and finally the WalMart filters. For the last 150,000 miles I have been using the WalMart brand ST filters. Oh yeah, the '99 GL1500 had 161,000 miles on it when I sold it, the '98 has 130,000 on it now and the GL1800 has 24,000 miles. All just purring along.

By the way, If I can trust my well over $20,000 automobiles to filters other than Honda filters, I know I can trust them on my Motorcycles. By the way, I also use the same oil and filters on my Honda ST1100 with 34,000 miles on it. My cars? Hodna CRV, Honda FIT and GMC 1500 short bed. The fit is relatively new with about 50,000 miles and both the CRV and GMC have over 100,000.

About the only place I don't bastardize is in tires... I use motorcycle tires on motorcycles and car/truck tires on cars and trucks.

I'm pretty happy with the performance of the oils and filters I use and really see no reason to be too terribly concerned about it.
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okstay
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby okstay » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:39 pm

Lots of good info about oil filters. My concern is not the quality of the filter. There are good filters and then there are the "right" filters. I am concerned about the flow rate of the walmart filters and the check valve, which retains oil pressure to help prevent dry starts. Also, someone posted they use rotella oil. What viscosity are you using? Again, 5w-30wt. is good oil, but not for Harleys. Good oil vs. the right oil.
Does the 7317 filter have the same flow rate as the 6607? Any info is appreciated. Thanks for the help.

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby 2008retiredplb » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:18 pm

I somewhat agree with the posts on using good oil. Personally I use Amsoil 10W40 synthetic motorcycle oil and have use them almost since I bought my cycle. After seeing and experiencing some of the benefits of synthetic oil I am a believer of their claims. As long as it meets the bike manufactures minimum specs.
I would more concerned about the filter used than the oil. Filters are of many different micron sizes and if it doesn't filter enough it would be a bad thing. If it restricts the flow to much that would also be bad.
My 2 cents worth is change oil often (follow the oil manufactures recommendations at the minimum) and use the best filter. Don't cheat on these as they are much cheaper than a new engine. Change oil when winterizing to remove the contaminates so they don't sit in the engine over the winter.
I change oil at around 5,000 mile intervals (Amsoil says you can go as much as 15,000 mile or one year. Will go longer than 5,000 if I have ridden mostly long trips. Cheaper the oil the more often you need to change it. The old guideline of every 2,000 miles has long been passed with the new synthetic oils.
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby okstay » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:17 pm

I was a Honda motorcycle mechanic during the 70's and one of our customers used Kmart oil filters in his cb-750 Honda. One day his engine seized. When I took the engine apart, one of the oil orifices to the overhead cam was blocked with a piece of metal chip. I feel the oil filter should have caught this metal. He was not a fast or abusive rider. His bike had just 3,000 miles on it. From that point on I was a believer in quality oil filters. I also believe the bike manufacturers make a quality oil filter. I know, they are also expensive but so are our bikes. I am sure most of you have used aftermarket filters with very good results but I just don't trust other filters. Walmart for one, I'm sure makes a good filter but in six months someone else is manufacturing the filters for them. Six months later it is the cheapest bidder that supplies the filters for them. So how do you trust these filters in your engine?! I like to save a buck just like anyone but I only trust quality filters supplied by the manufacturer. I am sure Honda has strict quality specs. for their filters. Can aftermarket companies say the same? I really don't know. What are the flow rates of these filters and what about the "anti-flow back" valve? If anyone has any info on this matter please share it with us. Especially the micron rate of the filter paper. Thanks, Chris

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby 2008retiredplb » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:55 pm

okstay wrote:I was a Honda motorcycle mechanic during the 70's and one of our customers used Kmart oil filters in his cb-750 Honda. One day his engine seized. When I took the engine apart, one of the oil orifices to the overhead cam was blocked with a piece of metal chip. I feel the oil filter should have caught this metal. He was not a fast or abusive rider. His bike had just 3,000 miles on it. From that point on I was a believer in quality oil filters. I also believe the bike manufacturers make a quality oil filter. I know, they are also expensive but so are our bikes. I am sure most of you have used aftermarket filters with very good results but I just don't trust other filters. Walmart for one, I'm sure makes a good filter but in six months someone else is manufacturing the filters for them. Six months later it is the cheapest bidder that supplies the filters for them. So how do you trust these filters in your engine?! I like to save a buck just like anyone but I only trust quality filters supplied by the manufacturer. I am sure Honda has strict quality specs. for their filters. Can aftermarket companies say the same? I really don't know. What are the flow rates of these filters and what about the "anti-flow back" valve? If anyone has any info on this matter please share it with us. Especially the micron rate of the filter paper. Thanks, Chris



I agree totally about the filters. I used to be a John Deere mechanic in the early 80's and many times the filter was the problem in lubrication failures. Along with that, you have problems when trying to get warranty coverage from the dealer when they (the engine manufacture) blame the filter and the filter company blames the engine or oil as the cause of failure. In the long run you end up paying for it yourself.
With a $25,000 investment, why would you go with the cheap filter that saves only a few cents per filter. I change oil usually twice a year, and would only save about $2 to $4 each year. Thats (a $10 filter) an extremely small percentage (less than 0.0004%) of the cost of the bike.
Get down to the facts, you should rely on Honda or high quality aftermarket filters for your GL1800. Cheep just doesn't cut it.
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby wayne ian » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Talk about walmart. A friend of mine manufactures products for them, and under same name for other chain stores. Because walmart dictates price, everything is made just a little smaller, lighter, thinner. A little less this, a little that. Make each one smaller and get an extra ten per thousand........ Leave out 20% of the pleating in every filter and you get two extra per hundred. You get what you pay for.

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby 2008retiredplb » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:51 pm

2008retiredplb wrote:I somewhat agree with the posts on using good oil. Personally I use Amsoil 10W40 synthetic motorcycle oil and have use them almost since I bought my cycle. After seeing and experiencing some of the benefits of synthetic oil I am a believer of their claims. As long as it meets the bike manufactures minimum specs.
I would more concerned about the filter used than the oil. Filters are of many different micron sizes and if it doesn't filter enough it would be a bad thing. If it restricts the flow to much that would also be bad.
My 2 cents worth is change oil often (follow the oil manufactures recommendations at the minimum) and use the best filter. Don't cheat on these as they are much cheaper than a new engine. Change oil when winterizing to remove the contaminates so they don't sit in the engine over the winter.
I change oil at around 5,000 mile intervals (Amsoil says you can go as much as 15,000 mile or one year. Will go longer than 5,000 if I have ridden mostly long trips. Cheaper the oil the more often you need to change it. The old guideline of every 2,000 miles has long been passed with the new synthetic oils.


Thought I would add some information about synthetic oils.
I have a friend that owns a Harley and was running Harley oil in it. Not sure about the actual temps in my example but he was running somewhere around 230 to 240 degrees with the Harley oil. He'd then tried a Full synthetic oil (Red Line) in his Harley and when he took it out for a ride the temp had dropped to around 180 to 190 degrees. The difference was so great that he thought the gauge was wrong and tried another gauge with the same result. If the synthetic oil makes that much difference it has to be doing a great job. Now on my 98 Honda 1100 Shadow A.C.E. I started using Red Line and when I got my GL1800, I switched to Amsoil after the first oil change and it made the transmission quieter and it shifted better. That is why I am using Amsoil in everything I own now. I do use the Amsoil filter on my car. Have not changed to the Amsoil filter yet on the bike, but I may do that in the future. Right now a full oil and filter change costs me around $40.00 to $45.00 and like I said above, I change at 5,000 to 6,000 mile intervals. I put about 10,000 to 12,000 miles on the bike in an average year. If I was really cheap I would only change the oil every year as that is well within the Amsoil recommendations. But I try not to skimp when it comes to maintenance.
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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby oolitictom » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:50 am

I'm been using Mobile one in my Gl 1800 and Honda Valkyrie. I always use Honda brand filters. I tried the synthetic in my Honda 750 ACE and that was a big mistake. The clutch sliped bad. So I put in heavy duty clutch and the cutch still slipped. I went back to regular oil and after the second oil change I no longer had any clutch slippage. So synthetic oils have there place but not for every motorcycle.

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby Red Ron » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:48 am

oolitictom wrote:I'm been using Mobile one in my Gl 1800 and Honda Valkyrie. I always use Honda brand filters. I tried the synthetic in my Honda 750 ACE and that was a big mistake. The clutch sliped bad. So I put in heavy duty clutch and the cutch still slipped. I went back to regular oil and after the second oil change I no longer had any clutch slippage. So synthetic oils have there place but not for every motorcycle.


Which synthetic? Would you remember if it was energy conserving or not. You are not supposed to put energy conserving oil into our bikes.

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Re: SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL

Postby prandlesc » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:12 am

Using a synthetic oil in your Goldwing is a great decision; using an oil engineered for autos instead of motorcycles is not a great decision. As far as engine lubrication goes, they both will provide superior protection when compared to a mineral oil. The problem is in the clutch. The Goldwing uses a wet clutch, meaning that the clutch sits in oil - the same oil used by the engine. The design allows for better clutch performance and life when riding in the friction zone - slow speeds and a heavy bike make this important. Automotive oils have additives that decrease the friction of the oil, making their use in a wet clutch application a bad idea - not enough friction. Even more so if you buy one of the newer "fuel-saving" oils which have a higher level of friction reducing additives. The difference in cost is really comparatively negligible - about $16 per oil change difference, or about $32/year for most of us (assuming 2 changes per year). You spent $20 or $30 grand on the bike and accessories, and now you're compromising the design of your bike for $30 a year. This is not where I'm going to decide to save a few bucks.


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