5W-20 oil


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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Rednaxs60
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by Rednaxs60 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:54 am



I use the NAPA gold filters because of price and I support my local parts store. It has been good to me with my many projects, letting me take parts home to try without paying for these up front. Sometimes it is more expensive, but the support is worth it.

If the manufacturer of oil filters is anything like batteries, tires, fuel after refining, and such, there are not a lot of places that make them - standards are different. Batteries are made in a few places as are tires. Oil is produced at refineries where the base stock is the same but the additives are proprietary.

MDG tires in Barrie Ontario back in the '60s made tires for Canadian Tire, Firestone and such. The Petro Can refinery (don't know if it still exists) down Hamilton way used to produce oils for Esso, Shell, Texaco, and others - saw this when I did a refinery tour back in the late '80s, asked the question as well.

Oils are interesting as well. My '85 LTD has an oil spec of SE or SF (since superceded) and additives not required - as per the owner's manual. These are SAE auto specs. Any oil that fits these specs, minus the friction additives, will work in my '85. JASO didn't hit the streets until the late '90s. It's main purpose is to distinguish between friction modified and non-friction modified oils.

The owner's manual also illustrates when to use what spec of oil such as 10W, 15W, 20W and single grade oils, but is mentioned as a guide. Also recommends changing filter every oil change.

Don't believe in the life-time mindset. Would submit that this is because of our throw away society, built in obsolescence by the OEM based on our purchasing patterns and who keeps their vehicle long enough that major items need to be replaced. Nothing lasts forever. My daughter's BMW X3 - 23,000 Kms for an oil change, and no dipstick - recommended against this.

Agree with changing the oil and filter at the same time and often. If you ride a lot, not hard to do a lot of oil changes in a year.

Just saying.

Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

DaveO430
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by DaveO430 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:26 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:09 am
I know you have Napa in Canada, and they have a house-brand filter here in the US, that is of excellent quality - particularly the Napa Gold brand. But for our bikes, the Honda OEM filters are actually of excellent quality, and are what I use.
NAPA filters are Wix.

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AZgl1800
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:45 pm

Too far to the Honda dealers,

NAPA Gold 1358 - this is the longer one. Diameter is the same, the flats are the same, can use the same filter wrench tool.
~John

See you at NASR-11 July 10th, 11th, 12th 2018

http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/c ... 9-nasr-11/

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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by GoldWingrGreg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:15 am

Honda supplies a chart to their dealers advising them what oil weights to use. Their current chart advised 10w-40 for 2001-2006 and 10w-30 from 2007-current (5th and 6th gens). It's believed that the reason is for hotter combustion with todays fuels.

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WingNutJC
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by WingNutJC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:34 am

5W-20 ..... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. N.E.V.E.R

NEVER NEVER NEVER go below xW-40.
Why???

Our engines are "flat tappet" design.
Means the tappets and cam have a sliding contact.
To avoid wear, the oil has a high zinc content. 1000ppm+

BUT - zinc poisons cat converters.
So engine designs were changed some years back to eliminate sliding contact by using roller rockers, as well as other stuff, ending up with modern engines using xW-30 oil max viscosity, with no Zinc.

So what about all the gazillions of older engines out there?
Answer: all oil xW-40 or above, is made with enough zinc to protect older engines - eg Goldwing engines.

Meaning that if you use xW-30,20,10 oil, you're going to kill your Wing engine. Sure as night follows day.

I can't put it more bluntly !!!!

(And I haven't yet talked about the big end and conrod bearings ...)

Anyway - it's your bike. :-(

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AZgl1800
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:51 am

ummm,
a lot of experience says otherwise.

I used to work for the City of Phoenix, Arizona.

Their fleet consists of every type car and truck imaginable.
All the way back into the '70s....

When the new oils came out, they changed over to one type of oil for everything period.
5w20 and nothing else. Why did they do this? Because the new engine warranties are void if you use anything EXCEPT 5w20.... so to avoid warranty issues, they simply disposed of all of the thicker viscosity oils....

It is used in all of the old motors, and not a single engine has ever come back with a failed engine due to oil problems. Not one, (1) at all.

I am using Rotella 5w40 T6 synthetic without any problems.
~John

See you at NASR-11 July 10th, 11th, 12th 2018

http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/c ... 9-nasr-11/

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WingNutJC
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by WingNutJC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:09 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:51 am

I am using Rotella 5w40 T6 synthetic without any problems.
So why aren't you using an xW-20 oil now?

|:-\

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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by WingNutJC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:16 am

WingNutJC wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:09 am
AZgl1800 wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:51 am

I am using Rotella 5w40 T6 synthetic without any problems.
So why aren't you using an xW-20 oil now?

|:-
" without any problems."

So please tell me: how do you know there are no problems?
OK - so your engine has not seized - but beyond that, do you have Used Oil Analysis (UOA) results to show parts of your engine are not wearing more quickly than "normal"?

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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Sun May 13, 2018 10:52 pm

Thought I'd drag this horse out and beat on it some more.
Regarding 0W20 oils, I came across this article in the Rock Auto newsletter. It gave me a few laughs, and I thought I'd share it. (May 2018 Edition / Link Below)

"The owners manual for the 2011 Honda Civic says, "Engine oil level - Check every time you fill the fuel tank." Is that a relic left over from 1950s era owners manuals, or do Honda owners really need to check their oil "every time" they stop at a gas station?"

If that's the case, I wonder how many engines have been destroyed by premature oil consumption that their owners never suspected would be "consumed" (burned) by their new wiz-bang vehicles ?

http://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/
Last edited by Bluewaterhooker0 on Sun May 13, 2018 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AZgl1800
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by AZgl1800 » Sun May 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Bluewaterhooker0 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:52 pm
Thought I'd drag this horse out and beat on it some more.
Regarding 0W20 oils, I came across this article in the Rock Auto newsletter. It gave me a few laughs, and I thought I'd share it.

"The owners manual for the 2011 Honda Civic says, "Engine oil level - Check every time you fill the fuel tank." Is that a relic left over from 1950s era owners manuals, or do Honda owners really need to check their oil "every time" they stop at a gas station?"

If that's the case, I wonder how many engines have been destroyed by premature oil consumption that their owners never suspected would be "consumed" (burned) by their new wiz-bang vehicles ?

http://www.rockauto.com/Newsletter/

that is a good chuckle, I have not done that since I was driving 1949 era cars with the flat head 6 cylinder engines...

The car and truck we have now? I might look at the oil twice a year?
in fact, I have been guilty of never looking at the oil level in our Pontiac Vibe, just change it once a year with a full synthetic, which is the only oil it has seen since new. it also is spec'd at 5w20
~John

See you at NASR-11 July 10th, 11th, 12th 2018

http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/c ... 9-nasr-11/

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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by Ravyn » Tue May 15, 2018 9:17 am

WingNutJC wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:34 am
5W-20 ..... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. N.E.V.E.R

NEVER NEVER NEVER go below xW-40.
Why???

Our engines are "flat tappet" design.
Means the tappets and cam have a sliding contact.
To avoid wear, the oil has a high zinc content. 1000ppm+

BUT - zinc poisons cat converters.
So engine designs were changed some years back to eliminate sliding contact by using roller rockers, as well as other stuff, ending up with modern engines using xW-30 oil max viscosity, with no Zinc.

So what about all the gazillions of older engines out there?
Answer: all oil xW-40 or above, is made with enough zinc to protect older engines - eg Goldwing engines.

Meaning that if you use xW-30,20,10 oil, you're going to kill your Wing engine. Sure as night follows day.

I can't put it more bluntly !!!!

(And I haven't yet talked about the big end and conrod bearings ...)

Anyway - it's your bike. :-(
I have never heard such a bunch of bullcrap in my life. You need to do some research. What ya been smokin bro?

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Rednaxs60
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:20 am

The issue with these older bikes is they were designed in the days where the only specifications available were from the auto industry, so in essence we have a small car engine in a motorcycle. There was no JASO standard that only means there are no friction modifiers in the oil. Using the latest standard API SN with no friction modifiers - indicated by the API donut not having anything in the lower half - will serve our bikes just fine. Use the weight scale as per the owners manual in conjunction with. Most oils that do not have friction modifiers have a good zinc content, check the MSDS sheet for this.

Checking the owner's manual for my '85 LTD shows that oils from 10W30 up to 20W50 depending on the area temperature is acceptable - 10W40 is the base recommendation for oil. It calls for a high detergent, premium quality motor oil to meet the US auto industry service classification of SE or SF - no longer available so we need to go with the base standard for today and that seems to be API SN. I would surmise that the 1000 and 1100 engine is very similar, if not exactly the same requirements.

These older bikes do not have catalytic converters so we do not have to concern ourselves with this. To compensate for the catalytic converter issue there is the JASO MA2 standard that indicates the oil can be used with a catalytic converter.

The bottom line is to use an oil that fits the above profile and has no friction modifiers. Lots of choice out there to fit the above.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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823JIM
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Re: 5W-20 oil

Post by 823JIM » Tue May 15, 2018 10:42 am

Ravyn wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:17 am
WingNutJC wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:34 am
5W-20 ..... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. N.E.V.E.R

NEVER NEVER NEVER go below xW-40.
Why???

Our engines are "flat tappet" design.
Means the tappets and cam have a sliding contact.
To avoid wear, the oil has a high zinc content. 1000ppm+

BUT - zinc poisons cat converters.
So engine designs were changed some years back to eliminate sliding contact by using roller rockers, as well as other stuff, ending up with modern engines using xW-30 oil max viscosity, with no Zinc.

So what about all the gazillions of older engines out there?
Answer: all oil xW-40 or above, is made with enough zinc to protect older engines - eg Goldwing engines.

Meaning that if you use xW-30,20,10 oil, you're going to kill your Wing engine. Sure as night follows day.

I can't put it more bluntly !!!!

(And I haven't yet talked about the big end and conrod bearings ...)

Anyway - it's your bike. :-(
I have never heard such a bunch of bullcrap in my life. You need to do some research. What ya been smokin bro?
Well someone needs to do more research for sure.
It seems to me WingNutJC is pretty spot on with the information he supplied. Do a little research on internet into zinc additives in oil and there effects in classic flat tappet engines and how they have been reduced in many modern oils:
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/10/1 ... r-engines/

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-070 ... -additive/

https://www.thoughtco.com/debunking-the ... end-726162


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