What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
  • Sponsored Links
Post Reply
Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Sun May 27, 2018 12:28 pm



I replaced the rear tire as I have half dozen times before.. In order to not have to disturb my exhaust I use the swing arm travel to remove the axle. This means removing the left rear shock. This time as I put it back together.. I have two slight gaps in the shock mount itself which must always be there but just never noticed them. However of more concern... I have a decent gap between the shock mount and the rear caliper mounting bracket. This could be caused by the wheel to far to the right but I have double checked everything and seems to be perfect. Everything is smooth and not bound up at all. Please take a look at attached pic and chime in.

thanks

One more note as you can see my axle is pretty flush with the left side of swing arm. And the washer is up against the axle itself on the right side of swing arm. I am sure it is designed this way so it is impossible to "pull" the swingarms in towards each other with the axle nut. Pretty clever.
Attachments









User avatar
Erdeniz Umman
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am
Location: Ankara Turkey
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Sun May 27, 2018 3:01 pm

The rear wheel axle should be mounted so that its head to be a little out and the gap between the washer and the swing arm should be less as shown below.

This will solve the issue, I think.
Attachments



User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by ct1500 » Sun May 27, 2018 3:54 pm

The axle floats and is self centering while torquing and you sure don't want to start tightening a pinch bolt first to make everything seem OK gap wise, pinch bolt always gets tightened last. The gap does seem a little excessive and the first thing that comes to mind would be the distance collar that goes into the final drive side of axle could be installed backwards or worn and might cause what your seeing.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:37 pm

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:01 pm
The rear wheel axle should be mounted so that its head to be a little out and the gap between the washer and the swing arm should be less as shown below.

This will solve the issue, I think.
Erdeniz.. thanks for post. I dont understand your comment about "gap between washer and swing arm". There is none and should not be.
Now if something is wrong with spacer in hub (right side) as CT1500 mentions then tire/wheel will all be too far right and then yes the axle will also be pulled too far right as it compensates for the problem. I will pull wheel off and see what is wrong.

User avatar
Erdeniz Umman
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am
Location: Ankara Turkey
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Sun May 27, 2018 5:02 pm

I see but, the washer should be as close as possible to the swingarm. And to do this you should pull the bracket out as far as possible and tighten the axle nut while holding the axle in the correct position and then tighten the pinch bolt.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Sun May 27, 2018 7:40 pm

Ok pulled it apart. Nothing wrong. Distance collar cannot be in backwards. Went to my parts supply and retrived another complete brake bracket and distance collar. (I am running a 97 rear end, rear wheel and all related from a friends trike project. Installed when it had 500 miles on all.. now has about 40K. ) Of course I keep everything. Everything mic'd the same.. length of collar, width of landings on the brake bracket.. So I put it together again using the spares. All looks identical when together. Still same gap on lower shock bolt.

I did notice that the older spare brake bracket rotor "notch" had been rubbing slightly on the left side by rotor so....

Option A. place a thin 1 mil or less washer between left side wheel spacer.and the bracket. That will not change wheel position at all....but will push brake bracket left just a tad. That will center up the rotor helping that.. and will push the bracket deeper into the shock bolt. It would leave the axle shoulder sticking out a bit on left side of swingarm. Should be perfect.

Option B. Install the bracket that is not rubbing and leave extra washer out. Live with gap at lower shock bolt.

User avatar
Erdeniz Umman
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am
Location: Ankara Turkey
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon May 28, 2018 1:41 am

I experienced the same thing last year, and solved the issue with the method I described. No need to use a thinner washer or something else.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Mon May 28, 2018 11:12 pm

I tried a thin 1.2 mm washer between bracket and wheel spacer. It did narrow the shock bolt gap in question and moved the axle shoulder left the same distance. However the caliper did not line up in the middle of the rotor. So I am just living with the gap on the shock bolt. Erdeniz suggested you could hold the bracket out while tightening the bolt. This entire system is designed so that everything slides to the right as far as slack will let it and then stops. So I was not successful with his fix.
Everything seems fine.. but riding it pretty easy right now until the new tires get a few miles.

The only real cure for this would be a new distance collar in the diff. hub. However as I stated above I have two.. one with 80k and one with 40k and they measured exactly the same. 103.2 mm. I dont have specs. for a new one.

Thanks for all input.
Wingryder

User avatar
Erdeniz Umman
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am
Location: Ankara Turkey
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Tue May 29, 2018 2:30 am

There are some threads about the rear wheel rubbing on the right inside of the swingarm. Here is one of them, you may want to read. viewtopic.php?t=7105

Normally, if everything was new and correct, you would not have such an issue, you would just push the axle and it would stop at the correct position. However, it doesn't do anymore due to some reason (maybe overtorqued axle nut, corrosion, hitting the wheel while trying to remove it or something else might have bent the swingarm).

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:46 pm

Ok after installing bags.. I found I have a very slight rub on the right side of tire against right bag. This I cannot live with. So I am going to fix the "gap" problem. I am going to replace swingarm bearings and possibly swingarm itself.

I also may need a new "distance collar" that goes on the extreme right of the axle. My question today is.. how can I find the exact measurement of this collar to find out if mine are really worn? I have two and with various miles and they both measure the same.
Do you know of a parts house that would have this in stock and would measure it for me? Most just order it from a bigger parts house.

Thanks...

User avatar
Erdeniz Umman
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am
Location: Ankara Turkey
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500SE

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:55 pm

I found this in an old thread.
Attachments



Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Thanks Erdeniz

That looks like 103 mm. Which is the same as the two that I already have. I am going to bolt in my old rear end tomorrow and see if any change there. Swingarm was rock solid with no play.. and no sign of being bent. Thinking of adding a washer the same size as the distance collar to the extreme right end of axle. That would move wheel left but would also "lift" the wheel off the drive gear just a little. More thinking on that.

dm

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:31 pm

Ok going to get the wrath on this one maybe. I tried my spare final drive and had the exact same left/right wheel position as before. So.... I got a steel washer 3.2 mm thick.. that fits axle perfectly. Dressed this down carefully until it was the same outside diameter as the small end of distance collar. Placed it in final drive first followed by distance collar and installed the wheel with all spacers. It moved the wheel and tire about 3 mm to the left, closed the gap in the shock bolt/caliper mount.. and left me with the shoulder axle sticking out also about 3 mm. This is where it always used to be.
Everything looks great.. no binding or apparent problems. Have not got the bags on yet so test drive awaits. (wont crank as is)
That extra spacer (washer) is bound tight between right side of final drive and distance spacer. It does not turn, it does not wobble and it should not cause problems. One downside.. it does pull the drive splines apart by 3 mm. Should not matter I do not do wheelies. I did buy used swingarm, used axle, used distance collar, new swingarm bearings. Will I install them?
Maybe..
Ok you can yell at me now.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:52 pm

Well follow up on the follow up. I found my rubbing problem was a inside bag wall after all and not related to the wheel spacing.
So took the modification out and put it together per normal. Still have the gap that this thread is all about. We will go with it like it is and watch things.

Thanks for all that offered help and advice

wingryder

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 19032
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Wingryder1 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:52 pm
Well follow up on the follow up. I found my rubbing problem was a inside bag wall after all and not related to the wheel spacing.
So took the modification out and put it together per normal. Still have the gap that this thread is all about. We will go with it like it is and watch things.

Thanks for all that offered help and advice

wingryder
I've done that before! I had a rubbing issue and was going after the swingarm, when the real problem turned to be a misaligned saddlebag frame.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:06 am

Not to beat a dead horse... but I still would like to cure this tiny slide to the right of the rear wheel. I am more interested in finding out why.. than any change it might make. It rides and feels just fine. It is not causing any rubbing that was a plastic issue and fixed.
I did buy some new and used parts .
1. Used swingarm. Was no good.. rusted from inside out. Seller refunded.
2. New swingarm bearings.
3. Used swingarm pivot bolts
4. Used axle with all spacers included.
I now have three distance collars and they all measure the exact same. Erdeniz provided a pic of a fourth one. All the same.
So I think we can rule out worn distance collar.
There has been no incident to damage swingarm. It is solid and no rust. (Utah desert) There is no side to side play in swing arm. (you would sure feel that in a curve)
I am going to swap the pivot bolts and bearings before I give up.
Please point out anything I might be overlooking.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:27 am

The mystery continues. Today I realized that with the "no good" used swingarm I now have everything needed to duplicate the assembly off the bike. Using all the spare parts both good and bad, I secured the swingarm to a stand and bolted everything up just like it would be on the bike. Same exact final position of axle and same gap where brake caliper bracket rests (or should rest) against left shock mount.

1. Unless.. both swingarms are bent exactly the same... I am at a loss.
2. I have eliminated swingarm bearings or pivot bolts or torques... These are not in use in my mock-up.

Note the swelling in swingarm about to eat that tire.
Attachments









Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Same exact problem with two different rear end assemblies. I had all the "spare" parts from a Trike conversion a friend did.
We traded some service work for his new tire, his new final drive and his rear brake parts. These now have about 40k on them.
The parts in the picture are the original wheel, final drive and brake bracket off my bike when it had 90k ten years ago. I purchased a used axle last week just to get another "distance collar" to compare. I also bought a used swingarm that turned out to have swelling problems.
With all of these parts combined.. I end up with the exact same problem this entire thread is about.

Both "setups" are installed what I believe to be correctly...letting the axle find it's own left/right placement per axle nut torque and then pinch bolt is applied last. All spacers, brackets and collars are identical..

Pretty Strange...

User avatar
ct1500
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Location: Glastonbury,CT
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500
Contact:

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by ct1500 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:53 pm

It may have been camera angle in first pic but this one I would not be concerned about anything.
Attachments


Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
Nothing leaves my shop till its' perfect
This is what I do

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:27 pm

Not camera angle. This one is a bit less than first picture which is bike setup. These parts have 90,000 miles and the ones on the bike (with the bigger gap) have 40,000 miles. Yes that is backwards if it's a wear problem. One of my thoughts was the large shoulder on left end of axle could be different lengths. But that would not change left/right placement of wheel...only how much shoulder stuck outside of left swingarm. Actually nothing left of wheel has any effect at all. Everything left of wheel keeps it tight to the right nothing else. Still weird.

Wingryder1
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:32 am
Location: Cedar Ciity, Utah
Motorcycle: 1994 Honda Gl1500 SE three older goldwings, and a host of other cycles going clear back to High School with a 58 Cushman Eagle.

Re: What is this gap in the rear caliper bracket? Normal?

Post by Wingryder1 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:34 am

ct1500.. you are correct.. the gap is about half on the spare parts as on the bike.



Post Reply