2nd Amendment


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FM-USA
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »



dingdong wrote:Seems I read that Scotland has the highest crime rate in all of the UK. The knife was cited as the preferred weapon and most murders / assaults are attributed to alcohol consumption. What's up with that?
ummmm,...
Send that knife to Alcohol Anonymous? Obviously it can't handle its liquor.
:roll:


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

FM-USA wrote:
dingdong wrote:Seems I read that Scotland has the highest crime rate in all of the UK. The knife was cited as the preferred weapon and most murders / assaults are attributed to alcohol consumption. What's up with that?
ummmm,...
Send that knife to Alcohol Anonymous? Obviously it can't handle its liquor.
:roll:
Good one FM-USA. :lol:

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

Cowpoke walks into a saloon with a six shooter by his side.
Bartender says,
__"What will it be?"
Cowpoke says,
__"A sarsaparilla and a Whiskey for my side arm."
Bartender leans way in and mumbles,
__"Now listen here Cowpoke. You know what happened the last time you drank with your side arm."
Cowpoke says,
__"YA-ya, but the doc said only one or my 'sarsaparilla elbow' will come back."
Bartender says,
__"NO-no. The last time your side arm drank, it shot its mouth off six times before it passed out."

NYUK-NYUK-NYUK, kids love it.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

some very good points being made here. but nothing new. there will always be two very strong sides to this topic.the first post here was about a business with a sign saying

" concealed weapons welcome " or similar. can any of you in the US imagine just how bizarre that seems to people who do not live in a society full of guns ?

i understand the view of most in the US regarding defending themselves, their homes etc, and let's not forget that 2nd amendment to the US constitution, the right of the people to bear arms.

i have never felt the need to keep a gun to protect my family. and i am very happy to live in a place where that can happen. ( not a criticism of any other country )

i for one am so very very pleased that military style weapons, automatic weapons etc have been banned in this country. even carrying a knife here will see you charged. and i am happy that is the case.

yes, criminals and the like will get these guns , as has always been the case. no one society is perfect. Australia certainly is not. and never will be.

and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

aussiegold wrote:some very good points being made here. ... and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?
Two points and not in order of.
Lack of education and lack of respect.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WingAdmin »

The problem with comparing countries in this way is the temptation to look at the US, and say, "why can't it just be like country X, where Y is banned, and as a result we don't have problem Z."

This is fantastical thinking. The fact is, the US is the way it is. Guns are a way of life here. There are hundreds of millions of them distributed amongst the population. This is a normal, accepted part of life here, and being that it is guaranteed as part of the constitution, no amount of hand-wringing or bemoaning this fact can, or will ever change it. It is not going to change.

So given this fact, it is commonplace for guns to be carried (and used!) in defense of self or others. What may seem horrific or unbelievable to people in other countries is simply a way of life here.

A lot of this comes from the attitude towards government in this country. In England, Australia, Canada and other countries, the populace defers to the government, which is always seen as "knowing best" and acting in the best interests of the citizenry. If the government says "you can't have knives or guns, instead the police will take care of you," the citizens say "that makes sense, I feel safe now because nobody has guns or knives."

In the US, the government is looked upon with suspicion, and any action by the government is usually considered to be in the best interests of the government first, and the citizens second. People know that the government may well say "you don't need guns or knives, the police will take care of you," but in reality the police are there to take names and clean up the mess afterwards, have no duty to protect anyone but themselves, and that you are responsible for your own safety. Feeling safe because the government tells you that you are safe is a fantasy. It's security theater, much like our own Department of Homeland Security. They have very little control over anything, but put up a great show to make people "feel" safe.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Mh434 »

"and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?"

The answer is...it isn't "much much higher than anywhere else in the world". Of course, if you read & believe in statistics made up by those who wish to disarm everyone but themselves, you might be forgiven for thinking that. The truth is far different.

Consider this - there are a few, isolated centers in the US where gun controls are truly Machiavellian in scope. As a result, virtually everyone who still possesses a gun in those areas is a criminal. Those places are by far the highest gun crime areas in the US, outstripping many other places in the world, and massively skewing the statistics for the entire country.

I should add that those areas (#1 among them is Chicago...Obama's home riding) are Liberal-governed, to the extreme, where complete disarmament of the populace is the stated goal of government, much along the same lines as Australia.

Well, that's working well, isn't it?

Conversely, in areas in the US where there is little in the way of gun control, gun crime is virtually nonexistent. Now, when you remove those few high-crime areas from the statistics, the US gun-crime levels are extremely low (I'll bet they're lower than in Australia's)...lower than most of the countries in the free world. Common sense dictates that more gun-control = more gun crime. The corollary is obvious, too - Switzerland is a prime example. The vast majority of the adult population (due to current or past military service) possess not only rifles, but handguns and automatic weapons. Interestingly, gun crime in Switzerland is almost nonexistent. Hmmm - according to your beliefs, that shouldn't be possible. Surprise!

By the way...these are documented facts, supported by law enforcement Unified Crime Reporting statistics, which are basically the same the world over. Bear in mind that I'm not even American, but Canadian - we have very strict gun control here now, and after decades of these controls, even the government admits it has done absolutely nothing to reduce violence or gun crime.

So...how does that fit into your beliefs? By the way, I've carried a pocket knife since I was 8 years old, and I use my knife daily for various chores. To even suggest that no one should be able to carry a knife is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Really?? Do you TRULY feel that we're all 4-year-olds, who can't be trusted with a simple tool???

I should add that I've directly saved 3 lives with the knife I was carrying at the time (I cut a man free from the rigging of a sailboat that was sinking, cut a hanging man down & he survived, and cut a girl loose from her jammed seatbelt in her overturned & burning car). If you were one of those people, how would you feel about me carrying a knife? Seriously - what would you say then?

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WA9FWT »

Mh434 wrote:"and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?"

The answer is...it isn't "much much higher than anywhere else in the world". Of course, if you read & believe in statistics made up by those who wish to disarm everyone but themselves, you might be forgiven for thinking that. The truth is far different.

Consider this - there are a few, isolated centers in the US where gun controls are truly Machiavellian in scope. As a result, virtually everyone who still possesses a gun in those areas is a criminal. Those places are by far the highest gun crime areas in the US, outstripping many other places in the world, and massively skewing the statistics for the entire country.

I should add that those areas (#1 among them is Chicago...Obama's home riding) are Liberal-governed, to the extreme, where complete disarmament of the populace is the stated goal of government, much along the same lines as Australia.

Well, that's working well, isn't it?

Conversely, in areas in the US where there is little in the way of gun control, gun crime is virtually nonexistent. Now, when you remove those few high-crime areas from the statistics, the US gun-crime levels are extremely low (I'll bet they're lower than in Australia's)...lower than most of the countries in the free world. Common sense dictates that more gun-control = more gun crime. The corollary is obvious, too - Switzerland is a prime example. The vast majority of the adult population (due to current or past military service) possess not only rifles, but handguns and automatic weapons. Interestingly, gun crime in Switzerland is almost nonexistent. Hmmm - according to your beliefs, that shouldn't be possible. Surprise!

By the way...these are documented facts, supported by law enforcement Unified Crime Reporting statistics, which are basically the same the world over. Bear in mind that I'm not even American, but Canadian - we have very strict gun control here now, and after decades of these controls, even the government admits it has done absolutely nothing to reduce violence or gun crime.

So...how does that fit into your beliefs? By the way, I've carried a pocket knife since I was 8 years old, and I use my knife daily for various chores. To even suggest that no one should be able to carry a knife is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Really?? Do you TRULY feel that we're all 4-year-olds, who can't be trusted with a simple tool???

I should add that I've directly saved 3 lives with the knife I was carrying at the time (I cut a man free from the rigging of a sailboat that was sinking, cut a hanging man down & he survived, and cut a girl loose from her jammed seatbelt in her overturned & burning car). If you were one of those people, how would you feel about me carrying a knife? Seriously - what would you say then?
Good point about the knife.I carry one all the time, and use it on a daily basius. In fact i was just called next do to help a old friend,and i bet I will need that knife once again. I can not see my self with out it.In fact it is at least 3 inches long...

WA9FWT Phil

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

Mh434 wrote:"and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?"

The answer is...it isn't "much much higher than anywhere else in the world". Of course, if you read & believe in statistics made up by those who wish to disarm everyone but themselves, you might be forgiven for thinking that. The truth is far different.

Consider this - there are a few, isolated centers in the US where gun controls are truly Machiavellian in scope. As a result, virtually everyone who still possesses a gun in those areas is a criminal. Those places are by far the highest gun crime areas in the US, outstripping many other places in the world, and massively skewing the statistics for the entire country.

I should add that those areas (#1 among them is Chicago...Obama's home riding) are Liberal-governed, to the extreme, where complete disarmament of the populace is the stated goal of government, much along the same lines as Australia.

Well, that's working well, isn't it?

Conversely, in areas in the US where there is little in the way of gun control, gun crime is virtually nonexistent. Now, when you remove those few high-crime areas from the statistics, the US gun-crime levels are extremely low (I'll bet they're lower than in Australia's)...lower than most of the countries in the free world. Common sense dictates that more gun-control = more gun crime. The corollary is obvious, too - Switzerland is a prime example. The vast majority of the adult population (due to current or past military service) possess not only rifles, but handguns and automatic weapons. Interestingly, gun crime in Switzerland is almost nonexistent. Hmmm - according to your beliefs, that shouldn't be possible. Surprise!

By the way...these are documented facts, supported by law enforcement Unified Crime Reporting statistics, which are basically the same the world over. Bear in mind that I'm not even American, but Canadian - we have very strict gun control here now, and after decades of these controls, even the government admits it has done absolutely nothing to reduce violence or gun crime.

So...how does that fit into your beliefs? By the way, I've carried a pocket knife since I was 8 years old, and I use my knife daily for various chores. To even suggest that no one should be able to carry a knife is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Really?? Do you TRULY feel that we're all 4-year-olds, who can't be trusted with a simple tool???

I should add that I've directly saved 3 lives with the knife I was carrying at the time (I cut a man free from the rigging of a sailboat that was sinking, cut a hanging man down & he survived, and cut a girl loose from her jammed seatbelt in her overturned & burning car). If you were one of those people, how would you feel about me carrying a knife? Seriously - what would you say then?
every statistic i can find does not concur with your statement re gun relayed murders in the US. depending on how the figures are juggled , it is a fact that the rate is SIX to TEN times more than any other country.
that is what interests me. why is it so higher in the US ? why not in Switzerland ?
here is a link to the laws regarding the carrying of knives here in OZ. as you will see it is different in every state. and not all blades are banned.
https://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/i ... 402AAXM5a1
also, i commend you on using your knife to save 3 people. well done.
i am not trying to change anyones mind here, simply trying to understand ( if i can ) this whole gun thing.
on second thoughts, no , i wont be able to. i simply cannot grasp that mind set.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Mh434 »

I don't know where you're finding your numbers, but I count 25 countries with higher firearms homicides per 100,000 population - and that's from numerous reference sites so, right off the bat, your contention is false. Your claim that the US is 6-10 times greater than any other country simply isn't supported by any statistics, anywhere...are you prepared to cite your references? Funny, even the most rabid anti-gun lobbyists don't seem to make those claims, and theirs are based on baseless emotion rather than (and in spite of) facts. I can show you many references that prove you wrong, and doubtless there are many others here who would cheerfully do the same.

In addition, according to the FBI, firearms homicides are falling, year by year, consistently, while firearms ownership increases, year by year. How would your contention explain that?

Here's something for you to ponder (source - the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) - the red line is firearms ownership per population, and the blue lines are homicides by firearm per 100,000 population. Take a look at the US, at the far left...does it look to you like the blue line is 6-10 times the height of any other country?


I guess what really rankles me is that you join a thread that clearly represents Americans who are proud of their heritage, their rights, and their pride in exercising those rights, and you insult them and their country. That is just not cool. Even as a non-American, I find that unacceptable.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Mh434 »

You've chosen two sources known for their extreme anti-gun views, with a penchant for abusing statistics to suit their political agendas. Apparently, the FBI and the United Nations sources aren't good enough for you.

Anyway, I'm done with this.

Have a nice day, and keep the rubber side down. :)

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

aussiegold wrote:
Mh434 wrote:"and the question still remains and may never be answered, why is the murder rate in the US ( using a gun ) much much higher than anywhere else in the world ?"
...
i am not trying to change anyones mind here, simply trying to understand ( if i can ) this whole gun thing.
on second thoughts, no , i wont be able to. i simply cannot grasp that mind set.
Help us understand here...
You're asking, many here are explaining but none of us seem to satisfy your question. So/we, asking for help from you.
WHAT is your thought (not holding anything back) as to why our rate is so much higher than anywhere else in the world?
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

aussiegold wrote:
" concealed weapons welcome " or similar. can any of you in the US imagine just how bizarre that seems to people who do not live in a society full of guns ?
What if...
"Bikers required to smile" or similar. Can any of you, anywhere, imagine just how bizarre that seems to people who do not live in a society full of HD's?
_____________________

After rereading that, I had to laugh.
I WONDER.... if I made a sign and posted it at my local bar where many HDs frequent... hummm.
They'd KNOW it was me, I'm the only non-HD'er who dares to park OUT front.
Well, they know better... I have a huge trailer that takes up their precious parking space. ;)
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.
See liberal progressive political agenda to understand what they want for America and what they have already done to this country regarding education and social values. It's mostly about creating a people (sheeple) that is totally dependent on the government for everything in their life in order to garner their vote. (POLITICAL POWER)

If this problem is to be changed, you have to actually change the whole of society. You can’t blame an inanimate object that’s availability has absolutely no correlation to murder and expect to end violence.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

FM-USA wrote: Two points and not in order of.
Lack of education and lack of respect.
dingdong wrote:Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.
See liberal progressive political agenda to understand what they want for America and what they have already done to this country regarding education and social values. It's mostly about creating a people (sheeple) that is totally dependent on the government for everything in their life in order to garner their vote. (POLITICAL POWER)

If this problem is to be changed, you have to actually change the whole of society. You can’t blame an inanimate object that’s availability has absolutely no correlation to murder and expect to end violence.
We basically said the same thing.
Lack of education begets poverty, poverty begets lack of respect.
Disrespect is the 'I DON'T CARE' altitude. :(

There is a LOT of things not being taught in school these days. Almost nothing is taught like what we had back in the 60's. We learned how America began, we learned the atrocities of both sides of war and we learned a lot of OUR lives and how to deal with 'X'. SAD to say the least, it gave direction in life.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Old Wing Man »

I have lived in Canada and Great Britain where I could not bring my guns (hunting guns or hand guns) with me. Most Canadians have hunting guns in their home, in fact according to one Canadian who was arguing with a Brit about guns, Canadians own more guns than folks in the USA. I could have imported my guns to Canada later after much red tape and government reviews but it was just too much BS to contend with. One expat had his hunting guns confiscated at the border and it took him over a year to get them back.

Did I ever miss my guns while in Canada, NO not really. Did I feel safe walking the streets of London, NO not really but I put the fear aside and did like all others there, just did whatever I needed to do and hoped for the best. I never had any problems in either country, but then I didn't go to places that didn't seem to be safe especially at night.

Now as to here in the USA, I have a CCW permit but I don't routinely carry a weapon on me. When I travel in my RV, I do have a gun with me but it is in the bedroom and not within reach when driving.
I usually have a shotgun in my farm RTV to take care of any varmint I may see but I don't carry my pistols unless I am going to my back yard range or my neighbors to practice. I live in the country and don't fear break ins or violence per se. My German Shepherd dog alerts me of any intruders and any locked doors is not to keep someone out but to keep my dog inside. I am not concerned about crime at my home but I have the CCW for when I go some place else.

I have never had violence against me but my wife was once robbed at gun point (in Texas) but she still wont consider learning how to use a firearm even though I have gotten her to fire a few rounds from pistol and rifle. I don't know if it is because she is a former British subject and grew up without guns around, but I suspect that it strongly influences her.

In any event, I have my guns and stand ready to use them to protect my 2nd amendment rights from any threat whether individual or government. I think this is the reason that most folks in the USA prefer to have guns to uphold their constitutional right to bear arms due to the history of countries who restricted this right usually became a totalitarian state where no citizen was safe from human rights violations.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

It's sad to think,..
We must have a weapon to protect us from the very entity we hire (vote into office) to serve us.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by MikeB »

New Proto Type Texas Flashlight - Handy to Have!



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This "light" will cast quite a "beam".
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

MikeB wrote:New Proto Type Texas Flashlight - Handy to Have!
This "light" will cast quite a "beam".
I see they want to LIGHT UP my life. ;)

Little to obvious it's more than a flashlight.
Now if it had a tissue slot with one sticking out and maybe
another slot where a "Doggy PoohBag" also stuck out... :roll:
.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

That's a better idea than the machine gun
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by suvcw04 »

"A well regulated militia". An example would be the idiots occupying federal property (that would be YOUR property and MY Property) in Oregon?

Not that I really care. As long as no one is shooting at me . . . . have at it boys.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

I see they want to LIGHT UP my life.
I just noticed on the "doggy poo bag" thing photo - the man in the background appears to have a very large rat on his shoulder/neck!
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

brettchallenger wrote:
I see they want to LIGHT UP my life.
I just noticed on the "doggy poo bag" thing photo - the man in the background appears to have a very large rat on his shoulder/neck!
Kinda looks like a rat. It is however a lanyard around his neck and a ball cap behind him.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by OldZX11Rider »

For many of us, growing up with firearms in the house and pocket knives in our pockets was as common as an iron skillet in the kitchen.
Our parents, usually dad, taught us about the dangers of a firearm, how to use it and how not to use it. Just like he taught us about pocket knives and how to drive. How to hunt and how to fish.
I've carried a pocket knife since I was about 10 - 12 years old. Yep, even to school. Back then almost every boy did. Getting caught with a condom would have been a major crime. Pocket knives were okay. My high school shop class taught us how to keep our knives sharp and clean!
Yeah, there's too many people shot in the United States. But the problem may cure itself when the uneducated, disrespectful idiots find themselves standing alone.


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