2nd Amendment


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »



The "send a gun to a British home" poster is interesting. However, the guns and other items donated were never distributed to private citizens, they were given to the Home Guard - basically a militia formed from men who were too old for military service or were otherwise unable to serve eg those with reserved occupations. The Home Guard carried out basic tasks such as manning checkpoints, thus allowing the army proper to prepare for invasion. When the Home Guard was first formed, weapons of any sort were in very short supply and many men simply went unarmed.

By the 1920s, the UK had extensive gun controls and well before the second world war self defence was not considered a valid reason to own a firearm.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

this subject ( gun laws/ ownership )raises the blood pressure of a lot of americans, usually because they seem to see any question about it as being an attack on their rights.
i could not care less about that, my interest is in the actual mindset and social acceptance of an armed society.
here in Australia , gun ownership has actually increased since fairly strict laws were passed after a horrific
mass shooting in Tasmania some years ago. ( that is an odd but true statistic )
this subject is rarely debated on a forum in a sensible manner, it usually descends into a name calling exercise
and sometimes worse.

i fail to see the relevance of WW2 , Vietnam wars etc in the debate on this subject. my own view is all war is bad, but thats just me. of course , our country was bailed out in WW2, not so much by the british ( the war was on their doorstep after all ) but by the US. and i suspect we have never been able to forget that , as we now host a few military installations and not to forget 2,000 or so US marines rotating out of Darwin. as it is said, nothing is for free.

i fully respect the rights of a countries citizens to own guns. i sometimes get a little tired of some prattling on about their rights and freedom. many many countries are as free as the US.they just dont blab on about it.living in a (mostly) gun free society, is not so bad. if i want a gun , i can get one. just not fully auto assault weapons and the like.
like the ones some protesters carried into the government building in Michigan the other day. why they need to carry rifles and dress in camo gear to protest Covid protection measures was baffling, but there you go.
land of the free.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Mh434 »

Well, I'm a Canadian, not an American, but what really upsets me is the action our government just took.

Well, they're the actions of one, single person, really - our Prime Minister.

He just banned many of the firearms used by Canadians every day, even many hunting firearms (today it was announced that many shotguns -even some single-shot ones- are now prohibited, and simple possession by fully-licensed, government and police vetted owners can result in decades in prison. Interestingly, I haven't seen an exemption for police possession of any of those firearms. I don't know of a police department in Canada that does NOT rely on these firearms on a daily basis.

There was no consultation, there was no notice, there was no debate in Parliament - in fact, he completely bypassed parliament. The politicians we elected didn't even get to see the legislation before he imposed it. He did it by decree, outside of our parliamentary system, using essentially a tool for doing minor government business which is too insignificant to bother parliament with. The only time in our history it was used for something bigger was in WWII, when it was used to justify the mass arrest and imprisonment of Japanese fishermen.

In this case, he criminalized 2.2 million Canadians with a stroke of the pen. All at his direction, and his alone.

Hardly the actions of the leader of a (supposed) democracy.

Of course, he relied upon his government's current unlimited powers (he has suspended our Charter of Rights and Constitution, because "COVID-19", so he is both figuratively and literally a self-proclaimed dictator. He has, repeatedly, said that he greatly admires China's communist dictatorship, and wants to change Canada to emulate it.

It would appear he's well on the way to doing just that.

And Canadians have no say in the matter.

THAT'S what angers me.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

Well, I'm a Canadian, not an American
Makes a change this, it is usually the British going on about "I am Scots/Welsh/English/Irish not British" etc. But surely, Canada is part of North America, ipso facto you are American, though not a citizen of the United States of America.

I can understand the need for guns in North America, you still have true wilderness there, especially Canada and Alaska. I sometimes think people really don't understand how small a place England is. It has roughly half the land mass of Michigan but has five times the population. Imagine if you will, Michigan with 10 or 15 Detroits scattered up and down its length.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WingNoob »

Mh434 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:51 am
Well, our socialist leader did it. Didn't just ban AR-15's and similar semiautomatic rifles - he's lumped in .22's and others, calling them "military-grade assault weapons", a term he made up himself. The list of newly-prohibited firearms is 1,500 items long, and includes several .22LR plinking rifles.

As of yesterday, 2,200,000 Canadians were made criminals. Not just in the minor, regulation-type crime sense, but in the going-to-prison-for-life sense. As of now, anyone possessing one of the 1,500 named firearms is subject to decades in prison...even though they are checked by the RCMP *daily*. Yes, daily. Now, we have to wait for our socialist dictator to decide our fate & tell us what we have to do to stay out of prison.

By the way - there was no debate, no legislation, no discussion, no consultation on this. He personally decided he was going to do it, and he did it. Period. He simply made a new law, which contravenes several other laws, including the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code of Canada.

Of course, he was emboldened by his recent success in shutting ALL Canadians' rights, so I guess he figured he would ban firearms while he was on a roll. He says that next he's going to turn over handgun bans to cities across the country (by law, this is solely a federal jurisdiction matter, but he's decided, all on his own, to forget about that little detail).

A very large number of firearms owners are already planning on (or are already in the process of) moving to the US & saying goodbye to Canada forever. I wish I had the ability to do the same.
I'd love to see some sources for your claims of daily surveillance and impending prison terms for 2+ million Canadians. In case you weren't paying attention, this was all part of the recent electoral platform so you really shouldn't be surprised. There is also going to eventually be a buy-back program, which may end up being voluntary. It's entirely possible that current owners of these weapons will be grandfathered in and not face any hardships. If you are interested in effecting how this all plays out, then you might consider contacting your representatives in government.

In the meantime, if you want to run down south so you can blast away to your hearts content, feel free.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by seelyark1 »

Aussiegold, Just for your information, there were no" automatic''" assault weapons" carried to any protests in any state in the US. They are pretty much unlawful for a common person to own one without special permitting, that the common person seldom could afford. The media and the gun grabbers (Left) in this country make those ridiculous statements to make it seen worse than it really is. Makes good headlines to promote their goals.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

Well some of the weapons they were carrying are certainly sporting rifles. Mind you, I am not an expert.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

brettchallenger wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:47 am
Well some of the weapons they were carrying are certainly sporting rifles. Mind you, I am not an expert.auto weapons.JPG
Just so you know... Those (sporting) rifles can be and are used, here in the States, for hunting all the time. Depending on the caliber, they are used for anything from squirrels to bear. They can be chambered from .22 up to .50 cal.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

I suppose I was thinking of this sort of thing (I don't really approve of beards either, makes a man look like a cad and a bounder).
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

brettchallenger wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:25 pm
I suppose I was thinking of this sort of thing (I don't really approve of beards either, makes a man look like a cad and a bounder).
Well I guess you have just responded to a notorius cad and bounder. Been bearded since 1990. LOL!!!
Have a great day.

Edit: I had to look up the def. of a bounder. Same as a cad. "Morally reprehensible person". I guess I qualify.

Edit: As to your pic, we definitly don't dress like that but we use shotguns for upland game birds and duck hunting as well as competition shooting. That "gentleman" looks more like an ad for a sporting magazine than a hunter.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

Well I can let you off seeing as you live in Oklahoma, after which one of my favourite musicals is named - it vies with Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. I hope you are not as frightening as Jud Fry.

I bid you good day Sir.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by tamathumper »

Ah, the American media.

Three guys standing around makes a "swarm".
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Re: 2nd Amendment

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I admit to being a cad and a bounder. I quit shaving the day that I got out of the Marines. Sept 16 1969. Also haven't had a pancake since Sept 15 1965. Mess hall pancakes were horrible and don't even like to look at one to this day. Some guys at work brought me one and I hung it on the wall. Three months later, it crumbled. When I was young, had then often. Not the same.
Looks like some here commenting were never hunters either. A gun is an inanimate object. Never hurt anyone by itself. Someone did the damage not the gun. Ban idiots not guns. That's my take. Dave
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by C-dub »

brettchallenger wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:54 am
Imagine if you will, Michigan with 10 or 15 Detroits scattered up and down its length.
That thought makes me shudder.




There's a whole lot more wilderness than just in Canada or Alaska. A whole lot!
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

brettchallenger wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:02 pm
Well I can let you off seeing as you live in Oklahoma, after which one of my favourite musicals is named - it vies with Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. I hope you are not as frightening as Jud Fry.

I bid you good day Sir.
Well you surprise me. Seems you are familiar with the arts.
The R&H musical Oklahoma is a classic. Alas, no, I can't claim to be anything like Jud. I'm bald with a full beard. Also Laurey is not my kind of woman. Sleep well.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

seelyark1 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:48 am
Aussiegold, Just for your information, there were no" automatic''" assault weapons" carried to any protests in any state in the US. They are pretty much unlawful for a common person to own one without special permitting, that the common person seldom could afford. The media and the gun grabbers (Left) in this country make those ridiculous statements to make it seen worse than it really is. Makes good headlines to promote their goals.
please, pardon my ignorance. no offence intended. they sure do LOOK like military style weapons.
wow, hunting rifle styles sure have changed since i was a boy.
i also wondered why those protesters in Michigan, felt the need to gear up in the hunting attire,
and carry any weapon at all to the gov offices,
with face masks etc to protest public Corona protection measures. maybe i missed something.

was not the 2nd amendment added to ensure the public had the arms to rise up against an
oppressive government ? to ensure that the public have the means to rebel ?

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

Also Laurey is not my kind of woman.
How on Earth can the delightful Laurey not be your "kind of woman". Are you deranged sir? Had my forebears decided to go and live in the Western Colonies, I rather fancy I would have become a Southern Gentleman. This would fit with our family history as my forebears supported the losing side in the English Civil War too.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

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Sir; The offspring of those "southern gentlemen" are the folks who are the most prone to "keep and bear arms" today. I just don't see you fitting in with your outlook on guns. You seem to be more conservative than liberal so I don't understand your view of guns. Oh well!

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

with your outlook on guns.
I don't believe I have made my outlook on guns known on these pages.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

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brettchallenger wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 1:25 pm
I suppose I was thinking of this sort of thing (I don't really approve of beards either, makes a man look like a cad and a bounder).
I suppose I could have misinterpreted this and your other posts. If so, I will try not to read between the lines from now on. Have a great day.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

I understand what you mean. My point was that I don't approve of people who dress up in quasi military get ups (as in the earlier picture I posted) particularly on city streets, irrespective of whether they are making a protest. And lets face it, they don't look a million miles from the pic below. I hate to see this type of policeman on our streets but it is something forced upon us by terrorism, I find the thought of ordinary citizens copying them quite frightening.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

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I don't approve or disapprove. Let me just say that it isn't something I would do. They are making a statement to the elected democrat governor that what she is doing is contrary to our constitution as written. which as part of her oath of office she swore 5 uphold not remake in her image. And there could be serious consequinces for over reaching her authority. Our constitution is NOT a living document that can be changed depending on the prevailing political outlook.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

oh I certainly do not disapprove of their right to demonstrate, we can agree on that. Although surely the US Constitution is to a degree, a "living document" which can be changed from time to time, admittadly, not by indivduals but by Congress. Afterall, the title of this particular discussion is "2nd Amendment", and the Constitution has been amended some 27 times since it was issued.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

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You are correct. There is a process for changes to be made. The process is detailed in article 5 of the constitution. It can't be arbritrarily changed by power hungary politicians or especially by political activist judges. The process is for the house and the senate to pass the amendment by a 2/3 majority and then it has to be approved by a 2/3 majority vote of all 50 state legislatures. The process is called a constitutional convention.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by C-dub »

It's complicated. It shouldn't be, but it is.




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