2nd Amendment


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by 2008retiredplb »



OldZX11Rider wrote:If you have to unload your firearms, and lock this part up here and that part here, you might as well leave it at home.
When/if you ever need it, you probably won't have time to unlock and open this compartment, then that compartment, and then assemble it.
Most cops carry double action semi autos with one in the barrel. Why? Because when they need it, they need it now! Flicking off the safety is practiced and instinctive to most cops.
I carry mine like a cop carries his, ready to use now. I may get in trouble for it some day, but I'm not going to get assaulted or killed because I couldn't put my gun together in time.
If you have a modern 1911, the only safe way to carry it is "Cocked, Locked and Loaded" (that is hammer cocked, safety on, round in the chamber) per John Browning the original designer and builder of the 1911. If you don't have one in the chamber than you might as well throw it at the crook. Takes to long to rack the slide and fire. When I carry my Kimber it's the only way I carry it.


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

Seems Virginia is moving backwards. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WingAdmin »

dingdong wrote:Seems Virginia is moving backwards. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html
Well that's the end of travel to Virginia for me.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

WingAdmin wrote:
dingdong wrote:Seems Virginia is moving backwards. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html
Well that's the end of travel to Virginia for me.

:o :shock: A number of times in this thread it has been stated that some of you guys won't ride in states that don't allow concealed carry. Would you really "not" ride in or through those states? What happens if you need to get to the other side? Do you go around or.....? Last year the wife and I rode California. It was one of the best rides we have ever been on with arguably some of the best scenery in the country. California has no reciprocity agreement with any state. I'm going even if they do have misinformed "progressive" lawmakers.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WingAdmin »

dingdong wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:
dingdong wrote:Seems Virginia is moving backwards. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html
Well that's the end of travel to Virginia for me.

:o :shock: A number of times in this thread it has been stated that some of you guys won't ride in states that don't allow concealed carry. Would you really "not" ride in or through those states? What happens if you need to get to the other side? Do you go around or.....? Last year the wife and I rode California. It was one of the best rides we have ever been on with arguably some of the best scenery in the country. California has no reciprocity agreement with any state. I'm going even if they do have misinformed "progressive" lawmakers.
I have literally gone out of my way to go around states where I cannot carry when travelling. Doing so, I have encountered some wonderful rides! :)

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by brettchallenger »

Please forgive me ignorance on this matter. Guns aren't much of an issue in the UK. Handguns are forbidden for everybody except police and Government security/armed forces, and even then, the majority of police officers don't routinely carry a weapon. Possession of a hand gun carries a mandatory 5 year sentence.

When you speak of "concealed carry" not being legal, does this mean that you can still carry a gun but that it must be visible, say in a holster around your waist?
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WingAdmin »

brettchallenger wrote:Please forgive me ignorance on this matter. Guns aren't much of an issue in the UK. Handguns are forbidden for everybody except police and Government security/armed forces, and even then, the majority of police officers don't routinely carry a weapon. Possession of a hand gun carries a mandatory 5 year sentence.

When you speak of "concealed carry" not being legal, does this mean that you can still carry a gun but that it must be visible, say in a holster around your waist?
It depends on the state. In some states, Virginia (and Ohio) for instance, open carry (visible, in a holster) is legal with no permit of any kind. Other states ban open carry of any kind. Some states allow open carry, but only if you have a concealed carry permit.

To me, open carry is a boneheaded thing to do. One of your greatest assets, defensively speaking, is the element of surprise. Advertising that you are armed may well help prevent a confrontation, but it may also simply change the method in which your assailant decides to attack you. Or...they may decide that they want to steal your gun, and then use it to rob you, which has happened.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Grindl »

When I came to Arizona forty years ago , I was floored to see people walking around with six-guns strapped on , and horses tied to hitchin-posts in the center of Phoenix . I got over the culture shock in a heart-beat when I understood why . Like ; right after seeing my first mountain lion in my back yard a few weeks later . Duh..... And I lived in N. Phoenix where there is now a shopping mall , surrounded by thousands of homes . Back then ; it was the edge of the city , and dangerous wildlife was not out of the norm . Now ; it is punk-assed thugs , bangers , and illegals who are the "threat" .
I only wish the rest of the country had the "Balls" to stand up to the anti-gun fascists and enact strict 2A requirements . We ; here in "Zona" have the least restrictive gun laws of any state in the country , and until Obama started dumping illegals here by the bus-loads , we had some of the best crime stats in the country . Those un-welcome visitors are learning that roughly every other person is carrying , or that three out of four homes contain armed citizens , and our crime stats are going down again .

A armed society is a polite society . Rather have it and not need it ......than need it , and not have it .

Good on ya Wing Admin . I've ridden all lower 48 , and carried thru every one of them . Screw-em . As Carleton said ; They can have it when it goes , "CLICK". Mine goes on my hip when I get dressed . And a Glock 22 , .40 cal. with 175gr. XTP's will get your attention .
I do disagree though about open carry as to concealed . I lived here when many open-carried , and the store robberies , assaults , muggings were much lower per-capita . If you're a thug , getting ready to rob the Circle K , and the guy in line behind you is carrying , you might have second thoughts about it . Since we changed our gun laws here , and went back to open carry , crime rates have gone down .

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Evilrick »

For anyone who doesn't understand the right and or need to be an armed person. Here is a hypothetical situation for you to consider.

First, pick a city block, any city, any block. Put 100 people on that block, shopping, talking, whatever. Just going about their business. Now we know that in this city people are not allowed to arm themselves in any way. Along comes a criminal, any criminal, you know one of those people who DON'T obey laws. If that criminal decides to rob, rape, harass someone, who is he going to do this to? Answer, anyone he wants. Right?

Now, take the same block, the same 100 people, but now 10 people carry openly. Now who is the criminal going to rob? Answer, anyone not carrying or around/near those 10 who are carrying. Right?

Now, same block, same 100 people, but this time, 10 people are carrying concealed. Now who does this criminal rob, rape or otherwise harass? Answer, take a guess and hope, because he might just pick on an armed person, or an armed person may be near the person he decided to pick on.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by ram11397 »

Quick question if you carry concealed all the time what happens if you where going to Canada? or thru Canada to Alaska?

Also living a big chunk of my life in England ( I am US Citizen father retired there when i was still in school) guns have never really been a issue, but the longer i live here the more i feel that its safer to carry then be caught without, so i am taking courses in the near future on basic gun handling and training plus getting the required permits. also i feel our 2nd Amendment is in danger.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WINGER3 »

Since I live in the state of insane progressives, the chance of getting a CC is less then Obama resigning tomorrow, I carry any time I go over 100 miles in one direction and as some have said, I'll take my chances with 12 and not be carried by 6. I carry a nice 5 shot 38 loaded with police issue XP hp. someone asked me once what I would do if attacked by 6 killers, as an old USMC range instructor, I said I would have to beat the last one to death with the pistol. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by MikeB »

ram11397 wrote:Quick question if you carry concealed all the time what happens if you where going to Canada? or thru Canada to Alaska?
brettchallenger wrote:Handguns are forbidden for everybody except police and Government security/armed forces, and even then, the majority of police officers don't routinely carry a weapon. Possession of a hand gun carries a mandatory 5 year sentence.
That is one of the reasons I do not go to Canada. The other is that there is too much of the good old USA that I have not seen yet.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by spiderjack »

ram11397 wrote:Quick question if you carry concealed all the time what happens if you where going to Canada? or thru Canada to Alaska?

Also living a big chunk of my life in England ( I am US Citizen father retired there when i was still in school) guns have never really been a issue, but the longer i live here the more i feel that its safer to carry then be caught without, so i am taking courses in the near future on basic gun handling and training plus getting the required permits. also i feel our 2nd Amendment is in danger.
You can't take it into Canada. It will be seized at the border, and you can be arrested.

Best bet is to take it to a local gun shop near the border and give it to them to have it "cleaned" until you return and pick it up.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Old Fogey »

I live in a country that has very strict gun laws, I am so glad to say.
Here's a few stats for you:
This chart doesn't show correctly in the forum; you'll need to unravel it yourself.

Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population per year
Total Homicides Suicides Unintentional Undetermined
United Kingdom 0.23 0.06 0.15 0.00 0.02
United States 10.64 3.55 6.70 0.16 0.09

Guess which country is the safer.

The main reason everyone in the USA all want to carry guns is that everyone all want to carry guns!
Our cops occasionally carry. They need a specific reason too. But if any cop uses it, fatally or not, there is an immediate independent inquiry into why. They do carry tazers.
Our traffic cops don't pull folk over at the point of a gun. Why not? Because they can safely assume that the vast majority (99.999 %) of the average citizens are not going to be armed.
And neither are they. Probably the main reason that I have never heard of any UK cop pumping 17 bullets into an unarmed kid, nor shooting a woman dead in her car with multiple gunshots. Things like that quite simply could not happen here.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

here in OZ we have strict gun laws. that is, military style and automatic rifles etc banned. biggest change came after Port Arthur shootings.
that said, it is still relatively easy to get a license and buy a gun. for hunting or competition etc.
people still shoot each other , but it is commonly gang /drug /crime related .
we also have extremely strict laws on knives , the carrying of a knife is also a crime and jumped on real quick.when we were in the US
our level of " conditioning " caused us to edge away from a young fellow with a large knife on his belt, in a country town. :shock:
i have read this thread all the way through and i am amazed by the notion that an armed public is a safe one. if this is so, then the US
would be the safest nation on earth. which it clearly is not. so the question remains.
why are people in the US killing each other in such large numbers ?

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by WINGER3 »

You guys must understand that your country's population is less then that of Chicago which has the most killings by gangs in the US. We also have about 20 million illegals and they are mostly the ones killing each other in gangs, and we have a President that thinks that is OK, he only goes after cops. I can tell you that 99.9% of the legal people here would not think of leaving to go to your country no mater what, and we have over 300 million here. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by aussiegold »

WINGER3 wrote:You guys must understand that your country's population is less then that of Chicago which has the most killings by gangs in the US. We also have about 20 million illegals and they are mostly the ones killing each other in gangs, and we have a President that thinks that is OK, he only goes after cops. I can tell you that 99.9% of the legal people here would not think of leaving to go to your country no mater what, and we have over 300 million here. :mrgreen:
yes, Old Fogey is in the UK. I am in Australia. the statistics supplied by Old Fogey are rated per 100,000 of pop. of course the population of the US and the UK is far greater than ours.
Not suggesting anyone would leave to come here. the question is difficult but still remains. this is also an extremely emotional issue for people in the US. i understand that.
the questions raised in Bowling for Columbine ( doco ?) are as valid today as they were when that was made.

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Old Fogey »

Population size has little to do with it. You are getting homicide counts mixed up with homicide rates. The figures I quoted were 'per head of population'. Taking this count it may surprise you to know that East St. Louis is the most dangerous city in the US.

So, in that context 10.64 dead per 100,000 in US against 0.23 dead per 100,000 in the UK makes this a safer country, regardless who is targeting who.
It wasn't reported how many illegals or gang members were amongst all the school children killed in this year alone.

This thread has become the usual pointless discussion over your gun laws.
There's an old saying, quite appropriate- 'there's none so blind as them that will not see'
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by seelyark1 »

To quote Old Fogey, Things like that quite simply could not happen here.

Read more: viewtopic.php?t=10510&start=75#ixzz3w6uIHPJB
They Simply could not happen here either, but they do. The USA doesn't need more gun laws, they need to enforce the ones that are on the books now! Too many criminals running loose is a big factor and more idiots trying to make it where a person will not be able to protect themselves. If Scotland had as big a population as the USA does, your rates would be just as high as ours because they don't obey the laws. Then what would you be saying. Most of us that carry use it as self defense, not as a way to commit a crime. I still have not found a country that is crime free.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

Criminals abide by laws?
Why is it when criminals use a gun for there dastardly deeds, law abiding citizens suffer with more gun laws?

Where is the mentality of our politicians?
And saying they're sitting on their brains don't count as an answer cause it means they DO have brains.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Old Fogey »

seelyark1 wrote:To quote Old Fogey, Things like that quite simply could not happen here.

Read more: viewtopic.php?t=10510&start=75#ixzz3w6uIHPJB
They Simply could not happen here either, but they do. The USA doesn't need more gun laws, they need to enforce the ones that are on the books now! Too many criminals running loose is a big factor and more idiots trying to make it where a person will not be able to protect themselves. If Scotland had as big a population as the USA does, your rates would be just as high as ours because they don't obey the laws. Then what would you be saying. Most of us that carry use it as self defense, not as a way to commit a crime. I still have not found a country that is crime free.
You still don't understand.
If the population rose, the COUNT might go up, but the RATE would stay the same, since the availability of firearms would not have changed.
You are using them as self defence against what? Has to be against other people with guns. So, if they didn't have guns, why would you need them?
Very, very few criminals carry guns in this country. But when they do use them, it is usually against other criminals (most often the drug gangs), not the general population.

I have to tell you that the first time I went to a Walmart, I was shocked to the core that there was a gun shop in a family store! I find that so unbelievable and so, so wrong!

Anyway, I repeat what I said as my last word on the subject:
This thread has become the usual utterly pointless discussion over your gun laws.
There's an old saying, quite appropriate- 'there's none so blind as them that will not see'
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

'there's none so blind as them that will not see'
THAT phrase works both ways.

I don't know your levels of laws anywhere but ours, USA.
Scenario:
A criminal breaks into your home with a knife and threatens you. :shock:
Which will you use to protect yourself, a knife or your gun? :roll:
.. .. I personally do not want to be within HARMS reach, I WILL use my xxx to keep death at bay.

I was just back reading,...
The smaller the population, the fewer the criminals.
The fewer the criminals, the easier it is to control said criminals.
The smaller the country, cops have less area to cover, this begets quicker response time.
The larger the country the more area cops must cover and this increases response time dramatically.

Calling 911 is a delayed response. You have to wait to be saved.
There are times you simply do not have time to wait and you must take the initiative to save yourself, or die.
I prefer to look out for myself and not depend on "response time" to save me.
I prefer to hang around a little longer than the criminal wants you to.

The reality is, there will always be two opposing views to our 2nd Amendment.
One view is looking in, the other view looking out.



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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by Old Fogey »

I know I should resist this but,

I wonder how the whole population of Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada (right on your own doorstep), including the other millions of folk in the USA that don't have a gun set of mind etc, etc, get through each day when they must be quaking in their boots in case someone breaks in and threatens them.
I am 4 weeks off my 68th birthday and have lived all over this country. In all those years I have not known anyone of friends, acquaintances, family or any of their friends and acquaintances to have had a break-in whilst in their homes. I know of one burglary when they were on holiday.

Glasgow is the most violent city in Scotland and second in the UK. We had 3 gangsters shot, by other gangsters, in 2015. Strangely, none of the public suddenly rushed out to buy a weapon because of this (partly because there is no-where for them to go to buy one without endless police checks and registration).

Perhaps your quote should have been:
"I don't know your levels of crime anywhere but ours, USA."
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by FM-USA »

Perhaps your quote should have been:
"I don't know your levels of crime anywhere but ours, USA."
ummmm. . . NO
I'm not interested in statistics, they change, they're inflated/deflated, they're clouded with external issues.
I know our laws, I live here and I am NOT interested in going our of my country where I feel safe.
Funny, sounds just the opposite to outsiders coming in where they're in reality uninformed and scared to death before actually knowing or experiencing.
I'M NOT BANTERING HERE, just say'n.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Post by dingdong »

Yes perhaps you should have resisted. Seems I read that Scotland has the highest crime rate in all of the UK. The knife was cited as the preferred weapon and most murders / assaults are attributed to alcohol consumption. What's up with that? Murderers are going to find a weapon.

Why is it that almost every time a conversation about carrying guns come up the subject always changes to a political (right or wrong) argument. It is what it is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This can't legitimately be changed without a constitutional convention that alters the above.

That said, lets keep this to the original (civil) intent of this thread. Please!


Last edited by dingdong on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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