Is danger in front or behind?


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2l84alibi
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by 2l84alibi » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:55 pm



My objective is simple: safely create space and time around me and my bike. This helps me to keep things in check behind me and allows adequate forward view in order to take evasive action as needed. The posted speed limit is a reference. I will go the necessary "safe" speed to achieve my objective. If I know the road conditions are not good, I will consider an alternate route or just drive my car. For example: this morning...dark, cold, deer and potential pot holes. I'm not ridin'!



FM-USA
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by FM-USA » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:37 pm

2l84alibi wrote:If I know the road conditions are not good, I will consider an alternate route or just drive my car.
For example: this morning...
dark, cold, deer and potential pot holes. I'm not ridin'!

For me it's the opposite...
lights, warm clothing, no honey?, fun challenging maneuvering... I'm Riding!
:twisted:
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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ypotier
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by ypotier » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:39 pm

themainviking wrote:I have been hit twice from behind, and never run into anything in front of me. ....

Oh - and danger is everywhere....
First thing that came to mind when I read the thread title was - It's all around! So I agree with themainviking. As far as it goes, I personally also ride a bit above the speed limit - mainly to keep a buffer space around me.

And as far as taking the GL out - still lots of snow up here, so not really thinking of riding yet - but really looking forward to spring!

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by FM-USA » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:07 pm

LOOK, SPRING!!!


"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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SequiMike
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by SequiMike » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:56 pm

FM-USA wrote:LOOK, SPRING!!!
belltech_6124_rear.jpg
Certainly better than FALL (bad pun intended) :(
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Big Bee
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by Big Bee » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:14 am

Great topic, interesting responses. On the interstates two up, it's 65-70, even on the 80 mph roads. We're just enjoyin' the ride. Riding one up, I'll kick the speed up. On two lane blacktops, it's the speed limit. In urban areas, I keep up with the flow of traffic no matter what the speed is. There are some situations that are best being behind you. When coming to a stop, I keep an eye out in the rear view mirrors and for escape routes. Here in the mountain states, there are turn outs for vehicles delaying X amount of vehicles on the mountain roads. Even if there is one vehicle behind me, I'll usually pull over so they are not on my butt. I'm not in that big of a hurry, and it can calm that driver down. On a bike, when the Lord calls you, your number is up. Several years ago a biker in northern Idaho was killed by a deer. That is after the deer was hit by a big rig and knocked into the path of the biker.

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by koyote » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:38 am

The sneaky dangers are behind and on the flanks. What I really hate is the blind spot drivers and the tailgaters. I will speed and pass in (familiar and safe) no passing areas to avoid them.

Space is safety, and out on the lonely roads in the west, I guess we can get a bit spoiled with the idea that space means 1/4 mile or more...

I tend to find a comfortable speed, and it may or may not have a lot to do with the speed limit. (which doesn't mean I'm speeding by any stretch.) In town, it has a lot to do with traffic flow.

Out on the road, it has a lot to do with road conditions. But I'd say I'm usually around 70mph. (which is mostly either 10 miles, 5 miles, or 0 miles above the posted limit)

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by FM-USA » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:08 am

JUST remembered, true story, happened to me.
4 lanes with center lane for turning left, traffic semi-heavy.
I'm in left lane and we're coming to a red light. Lady in a car on my right, her back door is even with my foot.
5 car lengths (75 ft) before the light she decides to move into my lane with a no look-see.
I LAY on my horn and she's startled but her startle took a solid full second. (OH boy, here we go)
So she rolls her window down and yells at me for being in her blind spot.
I seen her look into her mirror before changing lanes and I also seen her eyes dart to my bike.
(I've had way too much previous experience and know what to look for to avoid accidents)
I said, Lady you looked and seen me in your blind spot and still tried to take my lane.
Her reply, I seen you next to me a 1/2 block before but you moved into my blind spot on purpose, I know your type.
:? ummmm, :shock: DUAH???!!! :o NOPE, a brunet. :roll:
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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waituntilthebeep
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by waituntilthebeep » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:07 pm

My wife constantly says I am going to be dead because I ride a motorcycle. I say that it is because of others, not the bike. I ride with 2 schools of thought in mind...1) that any one of these idiots in a cage wonders what it would be like to ram me into the toolies and 2) that I want to be no where around when they act out that fantasy. I will ride whatever speed keeps me out of their blindspot and whatever speed I deem to be safe for the conditions. I find myself doing 8-10 over pretty much all the time. 2 lane roads I average 5 over. This is because I prefer to not have impatient jack wagons tailing me tight because their poor scheduling skills make me an obstacle. On the highways, I am usually at 10 over and in the carpool or far left lane. This is because it has an exit route... aka Left Turn Clyde... and it has the least people merging into a 60 at 40 causing random scattering of unsuspecting drivers and hard brake applications from 'selfie taking Suzy'. Under that condition, I try to ride at least 1 mph over the closest car unless they are already doing 10 over. I like fast but I also like to have a sacrificial goat in front of me to block the radar. I have found that in WA, pretty much all the drivers are pissed off and in a hurry (I blame this on too much Starbucks intake) and if I am impeding their path by even 1 mph, they are going to tell me about it. This usually occurs by them tailgating me at 10 over then swinging wildly to the right by a lane, shoving their 15' car into a 16' space, tailgating that car until they change lanes then smashing back into my lane with inches to spare and then slowing back down to almost speed limit just because they wanted to have it their way. Miagi say, "best way win fight is to not be there". On a side note, I also find that these people are the solo driver in the carpool lane scenario and it happens A LOT!!!!!!!

I know a retired bike trooper from WA state and she said that the common consensus is that ya gotta do whatever it takes to stay the heck out of the way. She has told stories of clocking a bike at 10 over and letting them pass and nailing the car behind them at 8 over. Right or wrong isn't the case but a bike cop understood my opinions on the subject. The goal is just to stay out of the way, You have to be safe and the speed limits were designed for commercial traffic safety. I play ticket roulette and I know it but I will take a ticket over a crash any day.

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OldZX11Rider
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by OldZX11Rider » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:03 pm

I try to stay at the speed limits. Especially when traveling long distance as I enjoy my second amendment rights and I don't want to discuss it with your local state troopers.
With that said, I will run a little over if the prevailing traffic is running a bit fast. I always silently thank those that go flying past me. If there's a cop ahead, he won't be looking at me.
I've a habit of constantly checking my mirrors. In and out of town. Living near a town that attracts lots of tourists, unfamiliar with the roads, I have found myself stuck in a pack of out of state tourists. Many times I've pulled off the road and let'em go.
I don't want to be a Goldwing sandwich. On interstates, traffic is usually not too heavy so I prefer to just run the speed limit. :D
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by FM-USA » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:47 pm

Install a placard on your bike.
Picture of TNT :shock: ...you'll have LOTS of room. ;)
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by OldZX11Rider » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:07 pm

Hahaha, that's good. :lol:
How about "Nuclear Powered Test Vehicle" "Radiation/Explosive Hazard" and "Not Responsible For Accidents".

Sponsored by Edsel experimental products.
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by Grindl » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:42 am

Interesting subject .....
Let's see....
12 trips to the "Wall",
3 rides to Sturgis,
2 rides to Laconia,
3 rides to Daytona,
And hundreds of thousands of miles going here , there , and everywhere .
I usually ride between five and eight mph over the posted speed limit , or about five mph over the flow of traffic when possible . I look for , and ride in "Holes" in traffic . Open space is "SAFE" space .
I have had DPS ( State Cops ) in around fifteen different states tell me I was a excellent highway rider , with good riding skills , and have been called a Aggressively - Defensive rider by multiple Motor Officers . And their first question usually is , "How many years have you been riding" ?
I am not the Be-all , End-all , perfect rider , but I will not allow myself to be Boxed-in by traffic , either in a city , or on the Interstate . That's the fastest way to a hole in the ground I can think of .
And for the record ; I have two moving citations for speed on a bike in 53 years . One was for 42mph in a 35mph zone . And the other was for 36mph in a 25mph residential area . Real Evel Kawalski stuff , right ?
I drove long-haul , Big Truck for a few years ( 17 ) , and it taught me about space , time , and distance and I have applied these lessons to my riding over the years . I do know one thing for sure , though . If you are cruising along at the posted speed limit .......YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS ! And that makes YOU a safety hazard on the highway to other drivers . Being dead right is still being DEAD ! Think about it .
No one has to blast down the road at 100 mph with their hair on fire , but if traffic is running 8 to 10 mph over the limit , and you are being stead-fastedly stubborn by going the exact posted limit ... YOU are the problem . And just as much of a hazard as your hair-on-fire speeding buddy . Run with the flow of traffic , or park the damn bike . One is as bad as the other ! And you asked !

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Jim1
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by Jim1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:49 am

Grindl wrote:Interesting subject .....
Let's see....
12 trips to the "Wall",
3 rides to Sturgis,
2 rides to Laconia,
3 rides to Daytona,
And hundreds of thousands of miles going here , there , and everywhere .
I usually ride between five and eight mph over the posted speed limit , or about five mph over the flow of traffic when possible . I look for , and ride in "Holes" in traffic . Open space is "SAFE" space .
I have had DPS ( State Cops ) in around fifteen different states tell me I was a excellent highway rider , with good riding skills , and have been called a Aggressively - Defensive rider by multiple Motor Officers . And their first question usually is , "How many years have you been riding" ?
I am not the Be-all , End-all , perfect rider , but I will not allow myself to be Boxed-in by traffic , either in a city , or on the Interstate . That's the fastest way to a hole in the ground I can think of .
And for the record ; I have two moving citations for speed on a bike in 53 years . One was for 42mph in a 35mph zone . And the other was for 36mph in a 25mph residential area . Real Evel Kawalski stuff , right ?
I drove long-haul , Big Truck for a few years ( 17 ) , and it taught me about space , time , and distance and I have applied these lessons to my riding over the years . I do know one thing for sure , though . If you are cruising along at the posted speed limit .......YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS ! And that makes YOU a safety hazard on the highway to other drivers . Being dead right is still being DEAD ! Think about it .
No one has to blast down the road at 100 mph with their hair on fire , but if traffic is running 8 to 10 mph over the limit , and you are being stead-fastedly stubborn by going the exact posted limit ... YOU are the problem . And just as much of a hazard as your hair-on-fire speeding buddy . Run with the flow of traffic , or park the damn bike . One is as bad as the other ! And you asked !
And probably the most important, YOU are out in the open.
Obtaining the maximum enjoyment from operating a motorcycle is a mind game. Keep the mind on the ride from exiting the friction zone to kick stand down at the end of the ride.

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themainviking
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by themainviking » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:07 am

FM-USA wrote:LOOK, SPRING!!!
And such a pretty spring as well...nice and bright
It ain't about the destination - it's all about the journey

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waituntilthebeep
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by waituntilthebeep » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:18 am

Grindl wrote:Interesting subject .....
Let's see....
12 trips to the "Wall",
3 rides to Sturgis,
2 rides to Laconia,
3 rides to Daytona,
And hundreds of thousands of miles going here , there , and everywhere .
I usually ride between five and eight mph over the posted speed limit , or about five mph over the flow of traffic when possible . I look for , and ride in "Holes" in traffic . Open space is "SAFE" space .
I have had DPS ( State Cops ) in around fifteen different states tell me I was a excellent highway rider , with good riding skills , and have been called a Aggressively - Defensive rider by multiple Motor Officers . And their first question usually is , "How many years have you been riding" ?
I am not the Be-all , End-all , perfect rider , but I will not allow myself to be Boxed-in by traffic , either in a city , or on the Interstate . That's the fastest way to a hole in the ground I can think of .
And for the record ; I have two moving citations for speed on a bike in 53 years . One was for 42mph in a 35mph zone . And the other was for 36mph in a 25mph residential area . Real Evel Kawalski stuff , right ?
I drove long-haul , Big Truck for a few years ( 17 ) , and it taught me about space , time , and distance and I have applied these lessons to my riding over the years . I do know one thing for sure , though . If you are cruising along at the posted speed limit .......YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS ! And that makes YOU a safety hazard on the highway to other drivers . Being dead right is still being DEAD ! Think about it .
No one has to blast down the road at 100 mph with their hair on fire , but if traffic is running 8 to 10 mph over the limit , and you are being stead-fastedly stubborn by going the exact posted limit ... YOU are the problem . And just as much of a hazard as your hair-on-fire speeding buddy . Run with the flow of traffic , or park the damn bike . One is as bad as the other ! And you asked !
I am not quite as ... well ridden... as you sir but I COMPLETELY agree. I drove truck as well and my bike is my daily driver. Stupidity is on 4 wheels everywhere and aggressive is safe. Alert to your surroundings and willing to adapt to the flow of traffic at all times is the key to staying alive. I ride with guys with road experience just like you and they all say the same thing you have. I am going on 20 years on a bike and I have yet to get a ticket for my driving. Though I can't say that much for many of the people speeding around me like maniacs.

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SequiMike
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by SequiMike » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:35 am

From some of the responses here, I think folks probably think I'm slogging along with a long line of frustrated drivers behind me, and that's my fault for not being entirely clear in the first place. When my riding buddy says he's just "keeping up with traffic", there's usually either NO traffic, or he's hell-bent on passing every car in front of us. Most of our riding is done on either on 4-lane interstates where it's very easy to get past us, or on rural highways where there's almost no one else. And when someone does come up behind us, we find a safe spot to pull over and let them pass. Truth is, he just likes to ride fast and I'm more cautious.
Grindl wrote:if traffic is running 8 to 10 mph over the limit , and you are being stead-fastedly stubborn by going the exact posted limit ... YOU are the problem . And just as much of a hazard as your hair-on-fire speeding buddy . Run with the flow of traffic , or park the damn bike . One is as bad as the other ! And you asked !
No, I'm not the problem. Running with the herd works for you, but where I ride there usually is no herd. At 72 I've come to understand my limitations and would like to enjoy riding my bike(s) in the Pacific Northwest for several years to come. The best way for ME to do this is to give myself a little more reaction time to swerve or stop for the deer that steps out in front of me, the junk that flies out of the pickup bed, the unexpected gravel spill, and the other hazards that are in front of me. Reducing my safety-buffer for the single impatient idiot behind me (which usually isn't there anyway) is not my first choice. And if he IS there, I'll gladly pull over and let him pass. Check the accident statistics - I found countless wrecks caused by speeding, showing off, driving drunk, hitting animals, hitting cars that turn in front of you, running into debris, etc., etc., but I could not find a single incident of being unintentionally hit from behind while driving down a highway. I'm sure it must have happened at least a few times, but so few that it was statistically unimportant to include in studies.

There's an old saying in aviation: There are OLD pilots and there are BOLD pilots, but there are no OLD BOLD pilots. That might apply to us bike riders too (although a few in my club are well into their 80's....)

Ride safe.
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by Grindl » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Best solution ? Find a new ridin partner . And stay in the Pacific N.W. where things are more "laid-back". I'm afraid you'd have some serious issues riding in the Phx. area where everybody drives / rides 8-10 over the "posted" limit as a norm .

BTW : I have a ATR and 150+ hrs. rotary , and a aerobatic rating , along with 26 hrs. free-fall time logged .

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by deanbw » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:54 pm

themainviking wrote: I drive 10 klicks over the limit (6.2 MPH).
Just an observation, but because a klick is a measure of distance (about 6/10 of a mile) then would not that speed change as MPH changed? ;)

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waituntilthebeep
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by waituntilthebeep » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:00 pm

OH GEEZ klicks... I immediately had the picture of a blind guy on a bike doing echo location at freeway speed. LOL. I guess that is fine as long as you keep it under the speed of sound, huh?

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SequiMike
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by SequiMike » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Grindl wrote:Best solution ? Find a new ridin partner . And stay in the Pacific N.W. where things are more "laid-back". I'm afraid you'd have some serious issues riding in the Phx. area where everybody drives / rides 8-10 over the "posted" limit as a norm .

BTW : I have a ATR and 150+ hrs. rotary , and a aerobatic rating , along with 26 hrs. free-fall time logged .
You're right - I probably wouldn't fit in around Phoenix. Same thing for Seattle - I generally go around, rather than through.

Congrats on the ratings! I got my Private back in '74 and my Glider rating around '95, but only fly a few hours a year now (C172). All my free-fall time was way back when I was less brittle and flying a 28' with 7TU mod - a real downward missile.
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by themainviking » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:27 pm

deanbw wrote:
themainviking wrote: I drive 10 klicks over the limit (6.2 MPH).
Just an observation, but because a klick is a measure of distance (about 6/10 of a mile) then would not that speed change as MPH changed? ;)
No. A "klick" is slang for a kilometer. 10 kilometers as a measure of distance is 6.2 miles. 10 kilometers per hour as a measurement of speed is 6.2 miles per hour. A kilometer is referred to as a klick both in distance and in speed. Whereas, the speed limit could be 100 kph (klicks or kilometers per hour) I would travel at 110 kph (klicks or kilometers per hour) and if I went at this for one hour, I would have travelled 110 kilometers (klicks). English is such a confusing language isn't it? :mrgreen:

And to keep this on topic, danger, for me, on a motorcycle, is everywhere - in front, in back, to either side, up or down.
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by wing rider 2012 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:14 am

I would say that it used to that most objects that could cause and accident would be in front of you, however, with all the distracted driving, use of cell phones makes getting rear ended a real concern.
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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by garwil » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:40 pm

As an interesting sidenote, here in Washington state there is a law that you must pull off the road and let traffic behind you pass if there are 5 or more vehicles following you on a 2-lane highway. I contacted the Washington State Patrol and asked them if this means that, when driving right at the speed limit, I am legally obligated to pull over and let 5 speeders behind me go past. Although their answer was a little convoluted, it was basically YES because this will reduce road-rage incidents. I find it interesting that the system penalizes the compliant in order to accommodate the non-compliant. (BTW, in my car I am almost always above the speed limit, and nobody hates a left-lane-hog more than me. My bike is a different story, though).
Arizona has the same law (except that I think it is more then two cars). My dad got busted two week in a row by the same trooper at the same spot. The first time, he cited him for speeding (less than 5 over), and the second time for obstructing traffic (exactly the same speed, but with three cars behind him). Both citations had the same court date, so dad asked the judge to do them together. The judge chewed out the trooper and told him to make up his mind, and then he threw out the charges. Nice for dad, but you cannot bet on that coincidence every time.

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Re: Is danger in front or behind?

Post by Rednaxs60 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:54 pm

deanbw wrote:
themainviking wrote: I drive 10 klicks over the limit (6.2 MPH).
Just an observation, but because a klick is a measure of distance (about 6/10 of a mile) then would not that speed change as MPH changed? ;)
We've adapted up here after years of being bilingual (Kms/MPH). All that has happened is we use the 10 over rule in Kms instead of MPH - kept the same concepts, just changed the unit of measurement. Pretty safe doing 10 Kms or so over depending on the highway, except in Toronto where the fast lane is 130 Kms or better (rush hour not included) - can still get a ticket though. I like the '85 LTD - I can change between Kms and MPH trough the travel computer.


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