Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?


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coolrunning
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Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by coolrunning » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:10 am



I have been ordering a lot of parts from various vendors over the last few years for my GL1500 Aspencade in an effort to refurbish it. A few days ago, I placed two orders with CycleMax for about half a dozen items totaling around $50.00. Two days later, both orders were cancelled. I thought maybe the items were unavailable or back-ordered, so I called them to see what happened. I was told that "The owner cancelled the orders because of a dispute/return in the past. He didn't want anymore of that...". I have no idea what they are talking about, but I thought I would ask if this vendor is famous for this or is it something new? It doesn't happen often but anytime I order something and it doesn't fit or it is damaged, I follow the return policy to the letter. What is wrong with that? I have never heard of a vendor refusing business because (I am assuming) of a return! I really don't understand why they will not sell me anything now. I spent a lot of money with them over the years, but I guess that doesn't matter. :(


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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by Cyclemax » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:50 pm

OK, so here is the Cyclemax side of the story. This person purchased a GL1500 light bar for their bike from us. As most of you know, we put a lot of pictures and details such as dimensions in our descriptions. Once this person received the light bar, even if they paid no attention to the dimensions in the website description, they could easily see the size of it by holding it up to the bike. They then opened the package and installed the bar on the bike. At this point they decided that they did not like the way it looked. It was too big. So, they contacted us, told us the story about installing it, and asked for a Return Authorization Number so that they could return it for a refund. We explained to them that our return policy states that we can not accept any returns once the product has been installed, unless it does not work properly. http://cyclemax.com/policies We explained that they should attempt to sell it as used on eBay or Craigslist to recoup some of their investment. It is at this point that this person contacted Paypal, which is the company they used to make the payment to Cyclemax. They told Paypal that the item was “significantly not as described", did not fit the bike, had not been installed and it was still in the original package. Paypal directed them to return it to us. We received it, not in new condition. We have pictures to document this. It had clearly been installed. We told Paypal that we received the item in used condition and sent the pictures along to them. Paypal refunded the full purchase price to this customer. We tried to appeal their decision but, that was rejected. We made a decision at that time to block this customer so that we did not have to go through this again with them. Once they attempted to place another order on our website and found they were blocked, they created a new user name and placed another order anyway. We cancelled them.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by AZgl1800 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:35 pm

I am with Gary on this one.

Gary and Betty do their ut-level best to always make sure things are right, I am a faithful CyceMax customer and will back them all the way.

Sorry if this does not meet up with your expectations.


However, I don't necessarily agree with the way PayPal treats the vendors.
If there is photographic evidence of foul play, the vendor should not have to be stiffed.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by Happytrails » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:39 pm

So sorry to hear of this. Have never been turned away. Have also been purchasing from Cyclemax for maybe 5yrs now. Has always been a pleasant experience and found them to be a reputable place to order wing parts. Great pricing, big selection of goldwing parts, great proxity to order from but its been there customer support/relations that kept me coming back.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:41 pm

I completely agree with Cyclemax on this. I stopped selling ANYTHING on ebay because of being jerked around in the same way by a customer.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:57 pm

I have to agree, Cyclemax is well known for their outstanding customer service - in fact, whenever they are mentioned here, that's usually one of the first things that comes up.

That said, I also am VERY familiar with this PayPal story. PayPal pretty much ALWAYS sides with the buyer, and the seller gets screwed, regardless of how outrageously the buyer lies, and regardless of all the evidence provided to PayPal by the seller to contradict the buyer's story. The only way the seller EVER prevails is if the buyer cannot provide proof (i.e. tracking number) showing the item was returned.

I have been selling using PayPal for many, many years, and once in a while you come across an unscrupulous buyer who simply wants to screw you over. In all that time, only once did I actually prevail - and it was when I was selling a used laptop that the buyer claimed was broken (screen cracked, missing hard drive, among other things) when she received it. Obviously she was hoping to keep the laptop AND get her money back. Looking at her buyer history, she had tried this scam many times. Because this was a high value item, I decided to call her bluff, and made a phone call to her town's local police station to report fraud. The police gave her a visit to investigate, and she agreed to return the laptop for a refund. What do you know, miracle of miracles, on its way back to me, the laptop's screen fixed itself, and the hard drive magically reappeared inside it! :)

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by coolrunning » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:02 pm

Cyclemax wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:50 pm
OK, so here is the Cyclemax side of the story. This person purchased a GL1500 light bar for their bike from us. As most of you know, we put a lot of pictures and details such as dimensions in our descriptions. Once this person received the light bar, even if they paid no attention to the dimensions in the website description, they could easily see the size of it by holding it up to the bike. They then opened the package and installed the bar on the bike. At this point they decided that they did not like the way it looked. It was too big. So, they contacted us, told us the story about installing it, and asked for a Return Authorization Number so that they could return it for a refund. We explained to them that our return policy states that we can not accept any returns once the product has been installed, unless it does not work properly. http://cyclemax.com/policies We explained that they should attempt to sell it as used on eBay or Craigslist to recoup some of their investment. It is at this point that this person contacted Paypal, which is the company they used to make the payment to Cyclemax. They told Paypal that the item was “significantly not as described", did not fit the bike, had not been installed and it was still in the original package. Paypal directed them to return it to us. We received it, not in new condition. We have pictures to document this. It had clearly been installed. We told Paypal that we received the item in used condition and sent the pictures along to them. Paypal refunded the full purchase price to this customer. We tried to appeal their decision but, that was rejected.
We made a decision at that time to block this customer so that we did not have to go through this again with them. Once they attempted to place another order on our website and found they were blocked, they created a new user name and placed another order anyway. We cancelled them.
What kind of customer service tells a customer to "attempt to sell it as used on eBay or Craigslist to recoup some of their investment"? It was never used. It was attached to the front of the bike with the screws supplied, and after seeing how much it stuck out on both sides, it was immediately removed and placed back in the original packaging. It was not damaged in any way, nor missing any parts. I never had any problem returning an item that did not fit with any other vendor EVER. I contacted Cyclemax first, not expecting anything but good customer service. What I got instead was a refusal to accept a return. This is exactly why PayPal exists. They help resolve issues like this. I should have never had to contact PayPal at all if Cyclemax was willing to cooperate in any way. I had no idea that Cyclemax had attempted to appeal the decision, or that Cyclemax had in retaliation blocked me from ordering again. I did nothing wrong. When I recently placed another couple of orders with Cyclemax and paid for them, I had to change my email address from my old inactive AOL address to my new active gmail address. You make it sound like I was trying to get away with something. I really do not appreciate the way Cyclemax tried to stick me with something that did not fit my bike and then claim I was trying to do something dishonest. I bought a lot of merchandise from Cyclemax, but I never expected to be blackballed because I returned something they didn't want back. Nevertheless, I am not an "unscrupulous buyer" and I never tried to "jerk anyone around" or "screw" Cyclemax. I believe it was the other way around.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:58 pm

coolrunning wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:02 pm
It was attached to the front of the bike with the screws supplied, and after seeing how much it stuck out on both sides, it was immediately removed

So which was it? Didn't fit or you didn't like it?

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by coolrunning » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:33 pm

It didn't fit, and of course I didn't like it. It looked home made.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by MikeB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:40 pm

It's unfortunate that you feel you were wronged.

Cyclemax is quite a reputable dealer. Off hand, I'd say that everyone here loves dealing with them. I have had many many dealings with them and appreciate them very much.

If it was their decision to not do business with someone, I am 100% sure they have a perfectly good and valid reason. It is totally within their right to deny business to anyone that has violated their business policies in the past.

Cyclemax will continue to remain at the top of my "go-to" list of favorite vendors.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by Mag » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:54 pm

I can see both points, though if Cyclemax in their T&C states that they can not accept product that was placed on the bike, even any possible little scratch on the item makes it not salable. This is not just a Cyclemax thing, but an overall where internet sales lie. Credit Card companies will normally side on the consumer, been working with credit card processing for the last 15 years. Hard to ever settle an issue when it goes that far.

Would also like to say I have been ordering from Ohio since I received my 88 about 5-6 years ago, due to this website, and they listen to me on the phone, and also corrected one order I had stating that it was not the right one. I wear my Cyclemax Tshirt proudly in the state of Washington, and do get asked if I am from Ohio (nope, sorry).

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by billbob » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:03 am

I have always had great service with CycleMax over the years.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by dingdong » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:59 am

"I have no idea what they are talking about,"........ Really? At least keep it honest.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by RoadRogue » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:51 pm

It was attached to the front of the bike with the screws supplied, and after seeing how much it stuck out on both sides, it was immediately removed and placed back in the original packaging.
these are your words and the very definition of used. You bolted it on, that means it fit. you just didnt like it.
To claim you have no idea why they dont want to do business with you after filing a paypal dispute, I dont buy it. Sorry but Im with CycleMax on this one as well. I have done business with them several times over the years and have never had any problems. 8-)
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by minimac » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:30 pm

I can see both sides, but regardless, Paypal ruled in favor of the buyer even with the Cyclemax pictures. Let Cyclemax sell it on craigslist or e-bay to recoup part of their investment. That being said, if you were dissatisfied with a seller, why in the world would you go back? There is no law that they have to sell to you, but really, that seems (IMHO) a bit heavy-handed. So Cyclemax had to do a return. It happens all the time in any business dealing with people. Better to keep a satisfied customer, than never knowing how many lost sales they cause. I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I hope I don't get banned! I will say the few times I had to order from them, I was pleased.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by WingAdmin » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:10 pm

minimac wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:30 pm
I can see both sides, but regardless, Paypal ruled in favor of the buyer even with the Cyclemax pictures. Let Cyclemax sell it on craigslist or e-bay to recoup part of their investment. That being said, if you were dissatisfied with a seller, why in the world would you go back? There is no law that they have to sell to you, but really, that seems (IMHO) a bit heavy-handed. So Cyclemax had to do a return. It happens all the time in any business dealing with people. Better to keep a satisfied customer, than never knowing how many lost sales they cause. I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I hope I don't get banned! I will say the few times I had to order from them, I was pleased.
Like I mentioned, in my MANY years of eCommerce and online selling (it's actually what I do for a living), the ONLY time I have EVER seen PayPal rule in favor of the seller is when the buyer failed to actually return the item, and could not provide tracking information to back it up. You could buy something online, put it through a blender, box it up and send it back, and PayPal will still rule in your favor and refund your money. Just a fact of business.

I have to say that I have done the exact same thing as Cyclemax just described (banning a user) for exactly the same reason, on more than one occasion. It's just good business.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by brianinpa » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:14 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:10 pm
...

I have to say that I have done the exact same thing as Cyclemax just described (banning a user) for exactly the same reason, on more than one occasion. It's just good business.
Did they come on a forum afterward and try to badmouth you and claim they didn't know why they wanted to do business with you?
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by minimac » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 am

WingAdmin wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:10 pm


Like I mentioned, in my MANY years of eCommerce and online selling (it's actually what I do for a living), the ONLY time I have EVER seen PayPal rule in favor of the seller is when the buyer failed to actually return the item, and could not provide tracking information to back it up. You could buy something online, put it through a blender, box it up and send it back, and PayPal will still rule in your favor and refund your money. Just a fact of business.
" Just a fact of business". ABSOLUTELY! That's the risk you take when you agree to accept PayPal for payments. Their dispute mediation is included in their user agreement that the business and users accepts. Good or bad, you agree to their terms. In the stated case, both parties submitted photos. PayPal made their determination. It was appealed, and yet they stood by their decision. Apparently the OP got over it, and wanted to continue to give Cyclemax his business. It would seem someone needs to put on their big boy pants and get over it. If you don't like PayPals policy, don't accept it as payment. Chalk it up,move on, and keep selling(and making money).
As I mentioned before, I have ordered a few things from Cyclemax and have been pleased. But, after seeing how this was handled, I'm going to be very, very careful of what I order in the future to make absolutely certain it is exactly what I want.
On the plus side, and in Cyclemax' favor, I think it was nice to take the time and present their side of the story. If the lightbar was truly damaged, shame on PayPal. And the O.P.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:54 pm

minimac wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 am
But, after seeing how this was handled, I'm going to be very, very careful of what I order in the future to make absolutely certain it is exactly what I want.
If everyone would do this, there would a lot less friction, no mater what or where you order your baubles from.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by AZgl1800 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:46 pm

minimac wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 am
, I'm going to be very, very careful of what I order in the future to make absolutely certain it is exactly what I want.
Just two days ago, I was quandering about a memory chip to make this laptop I use "go better".... it is strangling to death and using the SWAP partition on the HDD so much, it is dragging by its' toes.

Well, once you buy a memory chip, it is ALL YOURS, you can't send it back.

I used a memory lookup chart from 3 different memory makers to verify without a doubt, that the chip that I was ordering will work in my laptop.... a lot of anxious moments, but I think I will be okay.... if it don't work, it is "my fault", not Newegg.com where I bought the chip.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by coolrunning » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:17 am

MikeB wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:40 pm
It's unfortunate that you feel you were wronged.

Cyclemax is quite a reputable dealer. Off hand, I'd say that everyone here loves dealing with them. I have had many many dealings with them and appreciate them very much.

If it was their decision to not do business with someone, I am 100% sure they have a perfectly good and valid reason.
It is totally within their right to deny business to anyone that has violated their business policies in the past.

Cyclemax will continue to remain at the top of my "go-to" list of favorite vendors.
I am really glad about all the fans of Cyclemax raving praises
For their favorite vendor. I thought they were one of mine as well, but was surprised at their choice to attempt character assassination as retribution for challenging their definition of used. As with any item purchased from a photo on the internet, it is impossible to see what it looks like installed. If it was a pair of boots, and they are tried in and do not fit, you return them for refund. I have never heard of telling customers to sell them on eBay or Craigslist and refuse to accept the return. For that reason, I asked my favorite forum if this had happened to anyone else. I even suspected they were under new management and didn't care much about CUSTOMER service. Thinking this issue was resolved and finished, I was more than happy to forgive and forget and continue to buy from and recommend Cyclemax in the future. Until it became apparent that I had secretly been banned from ordering (without my knowledge), and when I called Cyclemax out on cancelling my orders, the owner told his salesman to simply tell me I was banned. More Cyclemax excellent customer service in action? Look, I thought enough of them to consider them for future business as proven by my most recent orders. But when someone in business is disrespectful, rude and vidictive over a simple return, it is obvious should have never given them a second chance. I will never make that mistake again. Those of you who continue to support Cyclemax, good luck to you. Perhaps you will be lucky enough to not ever have to attempt a return. I have many other more professional vendors to who actually know how to treat loyal customers. Thank God for Paypal! They are you only protection from situations like these. When you trust a vendor to sell a product that is supposed to be made to fit your bike, and it looks instead like a homemade part for a tractor, you should be able to simply return it for a full refund, no questions. I paid shipping both directions by the way. Cyclemax could learn a lot from Amazon.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by coolrunning » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:18 am

minimac wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:30 pm
I can see both sides, but regardless, Paypal ruled in favor of the buyer even with the Cyclemax pictures. Let Cyclemax sell it on craigslist or e-bay to recoup part of their investment. That being said, if you were dissatisfied with a seller, why in the world would you go back? There is no law that they have to sell to you, but really, that seems (IMHO) a bit heavy-handed. So Cyclemax had to do a return. It happens all the time in any business dealing with people. Better to keep a satisfied customer, than never knowing how many lost sales they cause. I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I hope I don't get banned! I will say the few times I had to order from them, I was pleased.
Thanks for seeing both sides. You get it. I never expected to cause any controversy mentioning it here. Whatever trouble I have with a vendor is between me and them. I certainly have no intent to do any business with Cyclemax again now that I know what they tried to do to me. I just asked the original question to see if this had been the way they have been doing customer service or was it just with me. Thankfully, it appears to be just me. I am equally surprised to see how quickly my fellow forum members chose sides and immediately made me the bad guy. Even our Admin got defensive! Well, as much as I enjoyed participating and learning what a wealth helpful information is available by sharing with my peers in this forum, I don't think I am welcome. We live in an age where people can say anything they want with no regard to respect or manners. That is why I have no Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter accounts. Rudeness prevails and no one is accountable for what they say or how they say it. Everything is not about taking sides. It is about right and wrong. I just love my old Goldwing, and will continue to enjoy keeping it on the road. I was hoping to the experience would continue with the help of goldwingdocs.com but I can see how easy it is to be cast out as an undesirable. I thought this was a forum for people who shared the love of Goldwings, and the many experiences that go with them. I may have been too optimistic. I will not be contributing in the future.
Coolrunning

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by themainviking » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:41 am

coolrunning wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:18 am
I never expected to cause any controversy mentioning it here. Whatever trouble I have with a vendor is between me and them. I am equally surprised to see how quickly my fellow forum members chose sides and immediately made me the bad guy.
Well, I did not see how you were "made the bad guy". A discussion ensued. When a controversial topic is made available on a forum, everyone is entitled to voice their thoughts. Cyclemax has a lot of fans. People shared their thoughts on both sides of the question. No one wanted you to go and if you felt unwelcome, well that is a feeling that is not right or wrong as you own it.
Well, as much as I enjoyed participating and learning what a wealth helpful information is available by sharing with my peers in this forum, I don't think I am welcome. I will not be contributing in the future.
Will you still continue to remain a forum member so you can get answers when you need them? If so, then it is only fair that you also contribute, like everyone else. I am sure no one wishes to lose any single one of us from this forum, but a bit of a thick skin can be helpful if you raise topics that lead to answers from others. I have in the past felt that I had been slapped down on some posts, but once I re read them, and got over my sensitivity, I saw that the point was to make a point, not be vindictive. I do not speak for anyone else on this forum, and no one else speaks for me. From me - sluff it off and stick around. Get more involved, not less. Become a part of, as opposed to a part against. Tell me to go pound sand if you like.

Incidentally, I love your part of the country... I lived in Socorro, NM for three years and traveled to El Paso a lot. I bought a motorcycle from Sherm Barnett before he moved shop. His dealership was pretty amazing in El Paso, with all the older bikes on the roof. Buy any one for (I believe at the time) $500 and have it lifted off the roof into the back of your pickup, and take it home and rebuild it. Those were good days.
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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by Ghostman » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:53 am

Me thinks you work to hard to make your point. Depending on what you buy for your bike or car these days if its anything electrical a lot of places have a policy that once you buy it its yours.It doesnt matter whether you plugged it in or mounted it being lectrical they wont take a chance. If you buy custom wheels and you take them home and try them on your vehicle and you dont like them a lot of places wont take them back because you tried to mount them. A lot of these policies get put in place by people that abuse the systems or try to take advantage of the system. I spent over 10 years working retail and Ive seen the good side and the bad side of people. Ive owned a couple of wings and theres times Ive bought a farkle I thought looked nice on the web and when it was mounted it didnt do what I thought it would for me so I sold it on the forums. My attitude is you mounted it ,its yours because now its used. Ive bought from Cyclemax,Wingstuff,HDL,Chromeworld,DR Mudspringer and probably a few more places and never had issues.And with Cyclemax Ive always had great service and some wonderful conversations. No complaints from me theyre number 1 on my list. And FWIW I used to sell on Ebay some years ago and because of Paypal I also stopped selling because of Paypals policy.

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Re: Anyone been turned away from CycleMax?

Post by brianinpa » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:36 am

The devil is in the details... especially the return policy. If a buyer doesn't read it before buying something, they have no reason to complain about the outcome. CycleMax's report policy plainly states:

"Unopened items in their original packages can be returned for a refund with no questions asked and buyer is responsible for return shipping costs in this case."


Brian

If you aren't having fun doing it, find something else to do.

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