TT time again!


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brettchallenger
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TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »





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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

Just my opinion, but about time this seemingly ridiculous event was banned.

Another Isle of Man TT death yesterday, (Daley Mathison aged 27), who leaves behind a Wife and Young Daughter.
RIP Daley, and God Bless your Family.

Don’t get me wrong, I do understand what is in these guy’s blood. It must be a very deep desire that compels them to compete in this event, when any (more rational?) outsider would judge the risks to FAR outweigh the potential rewards.

These guys hit 200mph, fly over blind summits, and can land literally within inches of dry-stone-walls or lamp-posts. One slight error of judgement, or an equipment failure, and it can be almost guaranteed death. The Manx weather doesn’t help either: This year’s event has seen many delays due to patchy fog, and other crappy weather not really conducive to hurtling around a lethal MOUNTAIN COURSE at break-neck speed.

Do you realize that this event has claimed the lives of 258 riders in the 108 years since it started in 1911, and 35 fatalities in just the last ten years? Stop and think of those statistics for a moment: Is there any other modern sport that involves such a risk to life? Not even base-jumping me thinks. Considering this spring's climbing season, then climbing Everest maybe (but that's another argument).

If you look at those sobering numbers, then the long-term average death rate is 24 riders per decade over the entire history of the event, whilst almost exactly 1.5x that many have died in the most recent decade.

I don’t know how much of this recent increase can be ascribed to the greater number of competitors these days, due to all of the classes and races within the week-long event (there are even zero-emission races). I don’t know how many deaths are instead attributable to the ever increasing speeds attained on cutting-edge modern-engineered super-bikes.

What is certain, is that in the last one hundred years, Dry-Stone walls, Curb-stones, and Telegraph poles have not become any less dangerous to hit; they are still immovable objects. It doesn’t matter if you are wearing a cork-lined pudding-bowl and collide with one of these at 80mph, or a super-duper carbon-fibre lid, and hit one at 150mph. It would be like a fly hitting a windshield; the last thing to go through your mind, would likely be your ass!

With the greatest of respect to those who are compelled to partake in, or support this motorsport event, I really don’t think it appropriate for it to still be around in this day and age.

Other sports such as Formula 1 have been able to constantly evolve their safety for many reasons: Most of the circuits are a controlled environment, engineered with energy-absorbing gravel traps, safety barriers, and nets. There is also scope to continually improve car safety with the likes of more-survivable monocoque tubs, and now halos.

There just isn’t the scope to do such a thing with this type of bike event. The course is what it has been famously proved to be 258 times: lethal, and Humans are incredibly fragile creatures to sit exposed atop cutting-edge super-sports bikes hurtling around at 150-200mph.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »

Well you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, it is clear you have strong feelings regarding this matter. I am also sympathetic if you have been personally touched by a motor sport tragedy. However, banning things is a slippery slope to take. There have been calls to ban many sports over the years, especially boxing and other combative sports where the aim is to hurt and physically damage your oponenent. Rugby is under constant scrutiny as is American football. There are lots of dangerous sports and pastimes out there; all motor sport, scuba diving, mountain/rock climbing, the list goes on and on. Even the genteel game of golf has claimed hundreds of lives over the decades - usually as a result of lightening strikes. Once you start to ban sports and pastimes things gets complicated. In the UK, there are about 350 motorcycle deaths each year - and yes, there have been calls to ban motorcycles (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/200 ... torcycles/). Such a notion might seem ridiculous now, but start to ban things which have an element of danger and just wait and see what happens. If you had told me back in the seventies that men who dress up as women would have to be accepted as women I would have laughed - no ones laughs now.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Solina Dave »

Thanks for posting that trailer Brett. My uncle, back in the mid '50s, lived in Blackpool, and raced on the Isle of Man. Technology improvements, and the resultant increase in speed since then is obvious. But back in the day, the riding, and the risks were very comparable. I was only 10 years old, and while talking to him about it, it was obvious that going fast, and winning, must have been worth the risk.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by minimac »

Another thanks for posting Brett. Sadanorakman-you don't care for it...simple solution, don't watch. Pedestrians get killed everyday, all over the world. Perhaps, to your way of thinking, walking should be banned.

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Re: TT time again!

Post by WingAdmin »

Wow, an average of ~3 people a year killed during the TT? We should definitely ban it!

You know, come to think of it, many more people than that are killed every year in motorsports. We should ban ALL motorsports.

And while we're at it, on average 25 people a year die in skydiving accidents. Just to be sure, we should probably ban skydiving.

And downhill skiing! Almost 50 people a year die in downhill skiing accidents! That's definitely something we should ban as well!!

Oh, and choking! 5,000 people a year die of choking on food - and that's just in the USA! We definitely need to do something about this, we need to ban food!

...get the point. If you don't like it, don't participate in it. Don't watch it. Don't support it.

But it doesn't mean you get to decide for EVERYONE ELSE.

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Re: TT time again!

Post by DonnyBrook »

Drunk drivers kill innocents :shock: Ban cars!!
Let's not forget guns -- Dangerous things there. Knives too!
Oh yeah - I almost got killed falling off of a ladder --- Ban em!

I can't think of anything that won't might kill you -- heck, it isn't even safe sitting on the couch eating potato chips anymore :(

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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

Wow, I really set the cat among the pigeons with that one!

Thank you for all of the replies pointing out how people should have the right to kill themselves in any way they like, and therefore what an idiot I must obviously be to personally believe this event has simply become too dangerous over time to still be justified in this day and age. As Scott puts it, I don't get to 'decide for EVERYONE ELSE'. You're right, I'm just sharing MY OPINION! Here was me thinking Americans were big on the freedom of speech thing.

Stick with me for two minutes, as there's an apology at the end of my post:

For arguments sake, lets say there are around 350 competitors in this Year's Isle of Man T.T. I know there are around 60 to 70 in each of three main classes, plus around 50 sidecar outfits, not sure about the number of zero emissions racers or senior event racers. If this year sees the last decade's average death rate, then every competitor has a one in a-hundred (1%) chance of losing their life during this year's event.

Wingadmin argues that 25 people on average die in skydiving accidents in the US each year. There is apparently one U.S. skydiving fatality for every 101083 jumps. It would seem therefore that sky diving is over 1000 Times safer than competing at the Isle of Man T.T. ...Thank you for aptly illustrating my point Scott!

By this same measure... (All US statistics by the way):
  • Downhill Skiing... 1 person dies for every 1.4 Million participants
  • Motorcycling... 1 Death in every 4.7 Million miles ridden... this sounds pretty good odds to me to be honest considering the number of idiot cagers out there trying to kill us all!
  • Choking... 5000 deaths per year (Wingadmin's Stat) out of a U.S. population of 329 Million... I think I'll accept the modest risk to keep on eating. Hell, eating seems almost as safe as riding a motorcycle. :D
  • It would seem that even Sex is an 'Assumed Risk' activity these days, as apparently around 50,000 people worldwide die each year whilst enjoying this popular passtime!

So yes, I personally believe that there is a point at which the relentlessly, repetitively proven record of fatalities at an organized motorsport event starts to outweigh the benefit in hosting that event. For the notorious Isle of Man T.T., I feel this should have probably been around forty years ago; perhaps we can therefore just agree to disagree over the matter, and move on.

I sincerely apologize from the bottom of my heart to anyone reading my post for mentioning the word 'banned', I guess this was just too emotive a term to use, and morally offended people's deepest beliefs. I wasn't talking about class A narcotics, automatic weapons, or nerve agents, just a motorcycle race which seems to have gotten rather out of hand by today's safety standards.

Seems this year's T.T. might actually have fewer fatalities, as the weather is so crap they cancelled all of yesterday's races, and have for the time being delayed today's races (low cloud/hill fog). I kind of hope it remains foggy for the rest of the week.

Ride safe everyone.

regards
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

DonnyBrook wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:11 am
Drunk drivers kill innocents :shock: Ban cars!!
Let's not forget guns -- Dangerous things there. Knives too!
Oh yeah - I almost got killed falling off of a ladder --- Ban em!

I can't think of anything that won't might kill you -- heck, it isn't even safe sitting on the couch eating potato chips anymore :(
Sooo Funny @DonnyBrook:
  • Let's not get started on the Gun Thing, else we'll be here forever.
  • I fell off a ladder a few years ago, breaking my leg, dislocating my ankle, cracking my heel bone, and also breaking my little finger. One moment I was at the top, and the next sat on my ass on the ground wondering why my foot was pointing in the wrong direction!!! So let's not ban ladders, Just ban idiots from using ladders!
  • And as for Potato Chips... Just remember that there are 5000 Choking deaths per year in the U.S... Don't end up a statistic, swap chips for beer!!!
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Re: TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »

Wow, I really set the cat among the pigeons with that one!
Shooting pigeons has been banned in the UK, thanks to the odious Chris Packham. And personally, I would like to see cats banned - ghastly creatures.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

brettchallenger wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:13 am
Shooting pigeons has been banned in the UK, thanks to the odious Chris Packham. And personally, I would like to see cats banned - ghastly creatures.
Hmm yes, Chris P3cker. What's wrong with cats? They're delicious!

and Brett, I've meant to ask you before, what's with the 'Challenger' bit in your name? is your 'other car' a tank?
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

Ravyn wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 am

Man I'm sure glad you don't live here in the states. Stay over there in sunny England.
I bet you wear a seat belt when you sit down to take a crap, wouldn't want to get flushed down into the septic tank, ain't no way out of there !!!!
And as far as cats go.... you are sick. I hope you choke on the next one you eat then you can become a sick-tistic!
-A seatbelt on the loo, now there's a crap idea (this is called a 'pun')

-Of course I wouldn't hurt a hair on a little puddy-cat's head; might kick one up the ass if I caught it crapping on my lawn though (this is called 'Hyperbole' (hahy-pur-buh-lee)

I'm sorry that you think I'm so risk adverse because I feel it unacceptable that around one in every 100 Isle Of Man T.T. competitors die at the event, I guess you're so cool that you don't even bother with a helmet?
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Re: TT time again!

Post by offcenter »

Seems to me that most of the trouble in this world is from people
who think that they know what's best for others and then try to
force their will upon them.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »

what's with the 'Challenger' bit in your name?
Brett Challenger is the hero of my book which I never actually got round to writing. He was a sort of mix of Simon Templar, Biggles and Clive of India.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

offcenter wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:42 am
Seems to me that most of the trouble in this world is from people
who think that they know what's best for others and then try to
force their will upon them.
You'll never escape it offcenter, it's human nature. You've only got to look at 95% of politicians.

I'm not trying to force my will on anyone, but sure I hold an opinion like most others, which I shared here. I don't much care if people agree with me or not; I don't need peer approval.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »

And as far as cats go.... you are sick. I hope you choke on the next one you eat then you can become a sick-tistic!
Unlike much of Europe there is no actual law against eating cats in the UK - provided they are your own and not the woman's **** living next door. Cat still appears on Christmas menus in Switzerland even though it is illegal to buy/sell cat meat. I am not sure I would like it much. Can't stand the things when they are alive, never mind on my plate.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

brettchallenger wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:02 am
Brett Challenger is the hero of my book which I never actually got round to writing. He was a sort of mix of Simon Templar, Biggles and Clive of India.
That is SO cool. You should absolutely start writing it right now! Make a start at getting those years of ideas down.

But no wait, I'm forcing my will upon you Brett. ...Totally ignore what I've said, please don't feel any pressure at all to do anything.

"Brett Challenger and the case of the missing pu55y. "

Apparently the forum naughty word filter thinks an innocent term for a cat is rude so censors it. Oh the irony... I bet it lets me type fanny! ...oh yes it does!!! For the American guys who don't know, in the UK a fanny is a woman's 'lady garden'. Ooh errr. Oh No, I've offended people again... Arghhhh!!!
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sidcar »

Obviously the TT is a bit of a "Marmite" subject but it's all right with me. Couldn't get there this year but am going to the Classic TT/ Manx in August.

Sid.

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Re: TT time again!

Post by WingAdmin »

Sadanorakman wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:39 pm
brettchallenger wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:02 am
Brett Challenger is the hero of my book which I never actually got round to writing. He was a sort of mix of Simon Templar, Biggles and Clive of India.
That is SO cool. You should absolutely start writing it right now! Make a start at getting those years of ideas down.

But no wait, I'm forcing my will upon you Brett. ...Totally ignore what I've said, please don't feel any pressure at all to do anything.

"Brett Challenger and the case of the missing pu55y. "

Apparently the forum naughty word filter thinks an innocent term for a cat is rude so censors it. Oh the irony... I bet it lets me type fanny! ...oh yes it does!!! For the American guys who don't know, in the UK a fanny is a woman's 'lady garden'. Ooh errr. Oh No, I've offended people again... Arghhhh!!!
lol having at one point in my life been married to an English girl, she was AGAPE the first time she heard someone refer to a fanny pack! :)

As for ladders...this is the leg of the aluminum ladder I was at the very top of, when it failed from metal fatigue, and went out sideways underneath me:

Failed ladder leg
Failed ladder leg

And here's the rung I hit on my way down...

Step I hit on the way down
Step I hit on the way down

I didn't break anything, but man was I sore for a while. Bruises all over! No more aluminum ladders for me...

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Re: TT time again!

Post by TwoTone Trike »

I know what you're talking about with the ladder Admin except I was lucky enough to land flat of my back on a rock wall. Had a few cracked ribs but I lived. :D

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Re: TT time again!

Post by TwoTone Trike »

Sadanorakman, I understand what you're saying but, I also agree with others on here. Once government gets started on something they take it to extremes.

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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

Sidcar wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:08 pm
Obviously the TT is a bit of a "Marmite" subject but it's all right with me. Couldn't get there this year but am going to the Classic TT/ Manx in August.

Sid.
I hope your trip is a safe and enjoyable one Sid.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

TwoTone Trike wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:05 pm
Sadanorakman, I understand what you're saying but, I also agree with others on here. Once government gets started on something they take it to extremes.
I do agree with you TwoTone Trike re government getting their teeth into stuff... its those selfish, corrupt politicians again.

I made the mistake of using the word 'Banned' in my otherwise deeply considered argument. This was like waving a red flag at a herd of bulls. In my experience, motorcyclists tend to be particularly independent, freedom-loving folk, which is probably why they were drawn to the joy of riding bikes in the first place. I think its fair to say that motorcyclists don't like to be told what they can and can't do, and get riled more than most folks when authority (police, government officials etc...) try to do so!

If you are interested in other people's opinions on the IOMTT, then read the following. Although the article is from a local Manx man who actually hates the event, there follows lots of very well considered points of view at the bottom of the article, with of course the vast majority of commenters in favour of the event. Quite a few opinions from locals too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/isleofman/content/ ... ture.shtml

My own opinion still stands: I believe this event has gotten too dangerous. If fatalities cannot be reduced significantly, then the event should come to an end.
Last edited by Sadanorakman on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by brettchallenger »

commentors in favour of the event
1 It is from the BBC, an organisation which makes Pravda look balanced, so I won't bother thanks.

2 Bulls are colour blind to red.
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Re: TT time again!

Post by Sadanorakman »

brettchallenger wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:03 am
commentors in favour of the event
1 It is from the BBC, an organisation which makes Pravda look balanced, so I won't bother thanks.

2 Bulls are colour blind to red.
1. It was not about the article its self Brett, it's the dozens of others comments at the bottom of the article independently posted that were worth the read... these had nothing to do with the BBC, and reveal many peoples opinions, some from Manx residents themselves.

2. Bulls: Maybe, maybe not. Everyone thought dogs were colour-blind too, until they were scientifically proven not to be in the last twelve months! https://dog-vision.com/ Never the less the term is a common adage, whether bulls are colour blind or not.


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