ATGATT experiment.


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C-dub
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ATGATT experiment.

Post by C-dub » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:08 pm



Yesterday, 6.29.19, after mowing my yard in the morning I decided I was going to try something. Over the last few weeks, as the temperature had been climbing, I've been starting to experiment with lightweight long sleeve shirts. I have one khaki Columbia fishing shirt that has ripstop material and another Deluth Trading Company shirt that is a little darker than the khaki, but still a fairly light color shirt. Its material is what they call Armachillo. The Deluth shirt is also a little bit heavier material than the Columbia shirt, but still pretty lightweight.

One of the first things I noticed with both shirts is that the sleeve cuffs, even when buttoned tighter, tend to ride up a few inches on my wrist exposing that area to the sun. I don't normally wear a watch when riding because it gets in the way of a sleeve cuff or when wearing short sleeves will leave the distinctive tan line. I've tried wearing the watch over the cuff and that holds it in pace very well, but will have to figure out something for the right sleeve. Both shirts work well. However, they offer NO protection in an accident.

Over the past couple of days I've been reading through some old threads on this subject and since yesterday was supposed to be in the middle to upper 90'sF hear in North Texas I decided to put on the mesh pants and jacket without the rain liners and go for about a 150 miles ride. I also wore a thin pair of 5.11 pants with ripstop. I don't remember which model they are, but they don't have much extra pockets from the normal ones except for one on the right thigh, but it's not a big cargo pocket. I also wore an UA compression heat gear shirt under the jacket. Oh, and one other item I've recently picked up is a pair of Deluth Armachillo underwear with the bullpen. I went with one size smaller than recommended for a little extra support to hold things in place securely to avoid getting squished in the saddle. They worked well and I found myself adjusting my seating position far less frequently or barely at all. And they help with cooling.

I was also wearing some mesh gloves with D3O and the modular Neotec-II, which stayed in the down full face configuration most of the time except at stops to drink some water. I have two cup holder spaces where I carry a combined total of 44oz of water in thermos' with easy access to drink from.

Oh, and a pair of waterproof, but not very breathable TCX boots that rise a couple inches above the ankle. I'm still considering the TCX Airtech EVO boots because they offer better protection and air flow. My only reservation about them is will my pant wit over them easily enough and or can I tuck them into the boots.

Overall I was really surprised how comfortable I was the entire ride. I did have to occasionally lift the face shield, not chin bar, to gain additional cooling air flow for my face. Other than that, due to some perspiration and the mesh jacket I felt that air flow keeping me relatively cool the entire way. Of course, stops were really warm, but were also for only 1-3 minutes before getting a green light.

In one of the old threads, IIRC, Wingadmin mentioned that some folks have actually gotten sunburned due to wearing shorts underneath mesh pants. I thought about this because of my short sleeve UA shirt and decided that due to my jacket also having an inner mesh liner this wouldn't be an issue. You cannot actually see through the mesh on my jacket or pants. They are also a fairly tight weave for the outer mesh material that still has good airflow.

Here come the questions. In a few of those old threads retaining moisture was mentioned as a major factor to keep from dehydrating and for the body to regulate temperature. I also thought that perspiration was good thing for that because air movement over our moist skin is what gave us that cooling effect. So, with that in mind, how much airflow is good and is too much bad? I felt good yesterday and I checked the thermometer on the bike periodically and at the hottest it registered 99F. I didn't really feel much or any different at 99 that I did at 87 when I began the ride. What about gear that only has a few mesh vents as opposed to something like mine that is probably about 50% mesh or more. My legs were warm, but not really hot. There is less airflow on them because of bike blocking most down there. Overall, they were fine.

I would like some empirical data and am considering getting an IR thermometer. Partly because of reading how useful one can be to diagnose other issues and also to measure my own body temperature of various areas to see what I can see. Maybe there won't be anything useful and maybe there will. Has anyone tried that? Measuring the temperature of your torso, arms, legs, and face with various amounts of clothing and gear to see if there is any measurable difference?

The goal: When my wife and I do start making more significant trips I am positive will we end up encountering a wide range of conditions. We have a decent jack for her with removable rain liner and thermo vest, but no decent riding pants. The problem there is that she is short. Only 5' and not skinny. I have not come across any riding pants that will fit her yet. I know aerostich does some custom stuff and have not contacted them yet, but holy moly is their stuff $$$$$. Does anyone have any suggestions in this area too?


I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

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AZgl1800
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by AZgl1800 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:56 pm

Back tracking: 2008 I got T-boned by an 18 wheeler's tractor.....
left me with 3 concussions as my helmet was knocked off of my head.
no movie to show how that happened.... just conjecture, but I never go w/o a helmet.

My Hypothalmus gland is now ruined, and it is the "Thermostat" for our body's temperature control. ergo, I must now control my body temp with clothing or find an a/c unit.

if the ambient temps are going to be at 75°F or higher, I just wear my moisture absorbing shorts, no jeans. and my Tourmaster mesh pants with cargo pockets. The cargo pockets are where I carry things I need while riding, water bottle, wallet, etc.

my jacket is a mesh jacket with typical pads. I wear Elk Skin gloves so I can easily hold the handlebars.... probably should wear m/c gloves, but it I don't, and never have.

my helmet is a Shoei NeoTec modular, and I wear a Slikh head sock to absorb scalp sweat..... keeps the head cooler, and the helmet is 3 years old now and no liner stains.

I can vouch that ATGATT is much cooler to the skin than wearing just a T-shirt.... I lived and worked in Phoenix, AZ 20 years and rode my bike everyday to work/back. If I wore jean and a T-shirt, my skin really felt the heat.

at work, getting off duty at 3pm, I would put my ATGATT on, walk into the showers, and wet myself down.... the OATs were always 110-120 for 3 months every summer.
30 minutes in AZ at 120 a wet shower is good for 30-40 minutes and you are dry as a bone, even under all that mesh gear.

My Shoei is pretty good at cooling the back of my skull. but, until I got rid of the Tulsa Tall windshield, I never did notice any cooling from the Shoei..... I went to a Madstad and dropped the screen down below my chin.... the Madstad still puts the airstream above your head, if you want. on hot days, I angle the screen backwards so that I get air on my helmet.

a few days ago, I mowed the yard on my riding lawn tractor. I wore my hoodie jacket with long sleeves and heavy denim jeans... for Mosquito protection mainly, those things buzz us like an F-35... but, I was surprised that I was cooler with the hoodie than just a T-shirt.... no sun on my arms, and no heat on my back.
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:22 pm

I can handle most any temperature wearing my mesh gear, as long as I carry enough water and electrolytes (i.e. Gatorade) to drink - and I stop to drink it often.

That said, I find it FAR more comfortable in nasty hot weather to wear my phase change cooling vest. What a difference it makes!

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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by pidjones » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:51 am

My primary heat gear in the rain forests of East Tennessee (riding my '06 GL1800) is microfiber long-sleeved shirt, mesh armored jacket (presently the Hondaline made by Joe Rocket), and my primary weapon - a microfiber towel SOAKED with water at every stop and draped around my neck just under the jacket collar. I will sometimes also pour water over my arms while on a restroom stop for a little refreshing "boost" when I take off. I usually wear nylon hiking pants in warm weather, primarily because they are light weight and can be washed in a motel sink, hung in front of the AC, and worn the next day. Armored mesh over pants (presently Olympia) are always worn. Armored low-rise boots. I never use rain liners, prefering Frogg Toggs or other over-wear for both rain and early morning/high altitude temporary heat retention. My warm weather gloves have been a cheap pair of Chinese "Pro Biker" that are replaced each year. Their mesh body is protected with molded knuckle and palm heal guards. In 2016 my ATGATT was unintentionally tested in a ~50mph interstate get-off. All of the gear was destroyed (and insurance fully replaced) but although sore and bruised, I suffered zero skin loss and a mild crack of a wrist process that probably could have been treated with only a splint. This was evening rush hour with temps in high 80's (mid-August) and I was traveling from work to a downtown meeting. I still was in ATGATT.

My response to the question "isn't all of that gear hot?" Is always "have you ever slid on asphalt?"

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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by cbx4evr » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:59 am

I haven’t read all the posts entirely and was pointed to this thread from the newsletter. When I had my Goldwing riding in heat was a big issue for me. I was pointed to the linked article below and it helped me a lot. I was able to get my gear to a point where I was comfortable and still protected.

Give this a read it may shed some light on the whole issue of riding in the heat.

http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/iron ... 66_hot.pdf
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

kenbunch
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by kenbunch » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:48 pm

I live in Arizona where hot weather riding is almost the norm. So recently I purchased an extremely lightweight mesh (read very ventilated) jacket and pants from Slatin MotoGear. I was hesitant to pull the trigger simply due to the old adage: "You get what you pay for." However, in THIS case, my fears were happily and completely unfounded. Believe me, I was concerned that anything considerably less than most products on the market surely must be suspect, so I called and spoke with Richard Slatin, the owner of the company. He promised me if I was not pleased with the quality, comfort and fit of his gear, that he would refund my money. Can't beat that! So I made the purchase! I gotta tell everyone, THESE are the what we have ALL been looking for in HOT weather gear. I have included some independent reviews and links to same below. I hope this helps!

https://ridermagazine.com/2017/10/02/sl ... ns-review/

https://ridermagazine.com/2018/02/25/sl ... on-jacket/

https://www.slatinmotogear.com/pages/reviews

bizwizld
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by bizwizld » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:11 pm

This cooling vest requires no refrigeration. They regenerate at room temperature in 90 minutes after about 4 hrs constant use.

https://www.firstlinetech.com/product/standard-mesh/

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AZgl1800
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:01 am

bizwizld wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:11 pm
This cooling vest requires no refrigeration. They regenerate at room temperature in 90 minutes after about 4 hrs constant use.

https://www.firstlinetech.com/product/standard-mesh/
that won't be near as effective as a Phase Change vest that uses packs cooled in ice water that maintains 59°F skin temperature until the Phase Change material is exhausted: roughly 2 to 3 hours depending on OAT.

for me? I can't ride at OAT above 82°F w/o my Phase Change Vest

https://glaciertek.com/high-visibility/


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C-dub
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1981 Honda XL250
1975 Suzuki GT185M
1970 Suzuki TC90 dirtbike

Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by C-dub » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:14 pm

I think for now I'm okay without one of those very cool cooling vests. I don't know about my wife's upper temperature tolerance yet because she hasn't ridden much with me in anything over 90F yet. We'll get that phase of the experiment going this summer. Our next trip isn't until late October, so there shouldn't be any issues with heat then. Besides, her bigger known issue is with lower temps.

One of my original questions, though, that I think got buried in my OP had to do with the ventilation level of the jacket. The jacket I currently wear has a lot of mesh and no real vents like some of the jackets. The Badlands Pro model by Klim, for example has vents rather tan a lot of mesh and is self described as the top of the heap in quality and function. I'd add price too. Can there be too much ventilation like in my jacket or is something with vents better for staying cool and hydrated? Do I loose too much moisture having so much mesh? I don't feel like I do. Is that the real measuring stick, how I feel?

I'm still contemplating getting an IR thermometer to measure various spots on my body during a ride to see what my surface temps are under various conditions. That might be a fun project.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

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AZgl1800
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:16 pm

my only jacket is a full mesh, the Phase Change Vest works underneath that just fine.

at 98°F it will last about 2 hours, then a 20 minute dunking in ice water freezes the inserts solid.....

a word of warning here:
make sure you lay the vest in the ice water flat to the bottom of the chest.
Straighten the jacket out, and fold it in quarters flat. stuff vest and all into the water.

I mistakenly ONCE ONLY just stuffed the vest down into the water crumpled up.
those inserts will NOT flatten out until they melt again.

I also did not buy a spare set of inserts, IMO, that is unnecessary, as I am not an Iron Butt rider. I need that 20 minutes to sit inside an Air Conditioned space, enjoy a cool drink enhanced with electrolytes.

I once removed the inserts and froze them by themselves.
left the vest dry. I noticed immediately that I had lost all of the cooling effect.
the vest works best as a wet combo pack under your regular jacket. just let it drip a few minutes so you are not subjected to a Cold Shower :o

if the jacket is solid, like for winter use, the vest works longer.
for me, 2+ hours is enough anyway with my mesh jacket, as the bike is out of gas, and I need a rest.

One last thought:
10 minutes in Ice Water will refreeze the inserts solid.
they just won't last for 2.5 hours, more like 90 minutes at 100°F OAT
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Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by julimike54 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:19 am

C-dub wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:08 pm
SNIP
The goal: When my wife and I do start making more significant trips I am positive will we end up encountering a wide range of conditions. We have a decent jack for her with removable rain liner and thermo vest, but no decent riding pants. The problem there is that she is short. Only 5' and not skinny. I have not come across any riding pants that will fit her yet. I know aerostich does some custom stuff and have not contacted them yet, but holy moly is their stuff $$$$$. Does anyone have any suggestions in this area too?
Have you looked at Moto Liberty? I bought Olympia mesh there and have been happy with the function and longevity. Wife also wears the same gear.
Image
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C-dub
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2005 Hayabusa
1999 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
1979 Suzuki GS850G
1983 Suzuki GS1100E
1981 Honda XL250
1975 Suzuki GT185M
1970 Suzuki TC90 dirtbike

Re: ATGATT experiment.

Post by C-dub » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:55 pm

julimike54 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:19 am
C-dub wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:08 pm
SNIP
The goal: When my wife and I do start making more significant trips I am positive will we end up encountering a wide range of conditions. We have a decent jack for her with removable rain liner and thermo vest, but no decent riding pants. The problem there is that she is short. Only 5' and not skinny. I have not come across any riding pants that will fit her yet. I know aerostich does some custom stuff and have not contacted them yet, but holy moly is their stuff $$$$$. Does anyone have any suggestions in this area too?
Have you looked at Moto Liberty? I bought Olympia mesh there and have been happy with the function and longevity. Wife also wears the same gear.
I’ll check. There’s one a couple miles from us.


I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

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