Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)


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Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by WingAdmin »



This is a video I have wanted to make for a looong time:



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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Rambozo »

Three hours?
Tick tock, tick tock.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by blupupher »

Good info Scott.
Seeing people "duckwalk" their bikes instantly tells me what kind of rider they are.
For me, if my wheels are moving at any speed, I want both feet up on the pegs.

I for one take pride in trying to ride well. I am by no means perfect, but I practice slow speed maneuvering and braking every chance I get.
I find it amusing when other riders notice and say "man, you are good", and I tell them they too can ride like that with practice and instruction.
Seeing some of your examples of other riders shows how so many just don't realize there is so much more to riding a bike than hopping on and going. It is a skill to ride well, and all skills take practice.

I took a slow speed handling course (Ride Like a Pro) last year, and had 2 guys in the class bragging how they had been riding for 30 years and were only taking the class with a friend of theirs that had just gotten into riding.
Out of the 10 riders in the course, guess who needed the most practice?
Some old heads refuse to learn how to control their bikes.
One of those 2 guys by the end was getting it and said it was the hardest he has worked riding his bike ever. The other one refused to the end, adamant it was his bike (some newer Harley, no idea what model) and not him, and refused to allow the instructor ride his bike to show him otherwise. The third (newer rider) guy did will, listening to instructions and improving as the day went on.
Another newer rider also was blaming his bike, till he let the instructor ride it, and the guy just stood there awe struck that his bike could do what it did with someone with training.
Ironically, one of the instructors asked me if I had taken the course before, I said no, but had watched a lot of their videos online and practiced on my own. He said it showed, but I still learned a lot from having a 3rd person watch and evaluate my skills.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by joecoolsuncle »

blupupher wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:53 pm Good info Scott.
Seeing people "duckwalk" their bikes instantly tells me what kind of rider they are.
For me, if my wheels are moving at any speed, I want both feet up on the pegs.

I for one take pride in trying to ride well. I am by no means perfect, but I practice slow speed maneuvering and braking every chance I get.
I find it amusing when other riders notice and say "man, you are good", and I tell them they too can ride like that with practice and instruction.
Seeing some of your examples of other riders shows how so many just don't realize there is so much more to riding a bike than hopping on and going. It is a skill to ride well, and all skills take practice.

I took a slow speed handling course (Ride Like a Pro) last year, and had 2 guys in the class bragging how they had been riding for 30 years and were only taking the class with a friend of theirs that had just gotten into riding.
Out of the 10 riders in the course, guess who needed the most practice?
Some old heads refuse to learn how to control their bikes.
One of those 2 guys by the end was getting it and said it was the hardest he has worked riding his bike ever. The other one refused to the end, adamant it was his bike (some newer Harley, no idea what model) and not him, and refused to allow the instructor ride his bike to show him otherwise. The third (newer rider) guy did will, listening to instructions and improving as the day went on.
Another newer rider also was blaming his bike, till he let the instructor ride it, and the guy just stood there awe struck that his bike could do what it did with someone with training.
Ironically, one of the instructors asked me if I had taken the course before, I said no, but had watched a lot of their videos online and practiced on my own. He said it showed, but I still learned a lot from having a 3rd person watch and evaluate my skills.
great post!
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Rambozo »

I wonder why most of the bad examples were Harleys? :roll:
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by WingAdmin »

Rambozo wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:36 am I wonder why most of the bad examples were Harleys? :roll:
Well, 90% of the riders you see around here are exactly as you saw in the video: low-skill riders on Harleys, with no helmet or protective gear of any kind.

I did see a couple GL1800 riders at that intersection who duck-walked through, and I actually got one on video who came to a stop with his front wheel turned and he almost lost the bike as a result - but it was on the far corner (so kind of out of focus), and just at the critical point, a truck went through obscured the shot. So I decided to stick with the shots I had. I sat at that intersection for about an hour filming bikes, and used maybe 1/4 of the shots that I got in that video, but they were all pretty much the same. The hardest part was finding riders that actually STOPPED, because the vast majority of them just cruised right through without stopping.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Merlinqc »

Good info Scott.
Personally, when I come to a stop, I let go completely of the front brake and complete the stop by dragging the rear brake only. Rear brake should stay on until you are ready to move again, right foot stay's on the brake pedal while only the left foot go's on the ground as you achieve a complete stop. Think of it this way, before you get to a full stop you go through the slow speed phase. When you ride at a slow speed, let say in trafic or in a busy parking lot, you shouldn't be using the front brake, only the rear and the clutch. You use the friction point of both to keep balance and control. Well in a very similar way, when you come to a stop, you let go of the front brake when your in the slow speed zone which could be a couple of mph and then complete the stop on the rear brake keeping balance and placing only one foot on the ground, the left foot that is. By keeping the right foot on the brake, the brake light remain on, this indicates to trafic coming at you from the rear that you are stopped. On another note, while you are stopped, clutch should remain applied and bike should be in gear the hole time you are stopped let say at a trafic light. This way if you need to move in a emergency situation, you're ready! When finally come's the time to move again, it's a good practice to keep the right foot over the brake pedal until you are clear of the intersection, this way, if you needed to stop the bike in a emergency situation at slow speed, the rear brake is sufficient to stop quickly without even touching the front brake (at slow speed) and having a better chance of keeping the bike upright and not dropping it.
This is my take on the situation. Keep up the good work!
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Rambozo »

Except with a GoldWing you are always using both brakes.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by wingnut1105 »

Good video, and there is something more that could have been mentioned about the Goldwings that I don't remember seeing.
I agree with you completely Merlinqc, and note that everything you said was very familiar to me, as it was covered in a Manitoba Safety Council Motorcycle Rider's Course I took back in about 1987. That course didn't talk about releasing the front brake when coming to a final stop, but again, I agree with you completely. I started doing it naturally, to stop that annoying unloading of the front suspension at final stop.

What's also important to note, is that since 1983, Goldwings employed combined braking systems. My 2013 for example, when you apply the front brake alone (not something you would normally do) it automatically applies a proportionate level of the rear brake as well, to prevent disaster.
And vice-versa. Apply the rear brake alone, and it will automatically apply a proportionate level of the front brake. So when doing this method of releasing the front brake when coming to a final stop, you're not truly releasing the full front brake, due to the technology, but obviously it's enough to accomplish the unloading of the suspension for a nice stop that the video speaks about.

I don't know if other makes of bikes employ the combination brake technology....I'm guessing some do...but either way, releasing the front brake at final stop is a good tip for all makes of bikes either way.

Merlinqc wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:47 am Good info Scott.
Personally, when I come to a stop, I let go completely of the front brake and complete the stop by dragging the rear brake only. Rear brake should stay on until you are ready to move again, right foot stay's on the brake pedal while only the left foot go's on the ground as you achieve a complete stop. Think of it this way, before you get to a full stop you go through the slow speed phase. When you ride at a slow speed, let say in trafic or in a busy parking lot, you shouldn't be using the front brake, only the rear and the clutch. You use the friction point of both to keep balance and control. Well in a very similar way, when you come to a stop, you let go of the front brake when your in the slow speed zone which could be a couple of mph and then complete the stop on the rear brake keeping balance and placing only one foot on the ground, the left foot that is. By keeping the right foot on the brake, the brake light remain on, this indicates to trafic coming at you from the rear that you are stopped. On another note, while you are stopped, clutch should remain applied and bike should be in gear the hole time you are stopped let say at a trafic light. This way if you need to move in a emergency situation, you're ready! When finally come's the time to move again, it's a good practice to keep the right foot over the brake pedal until you are clear of the intersection, this way, if you needed to stop the bike in a emergency situation at slow speed, the rear brake is sufficient to stop quickly without even touching the front brake (at slow speed) and having a better chance of keeping the bike upright and not dropping it.
This is my take on the situation. Keep up the good work!
Al.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by WingAdmin »

Rambozo wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:56 am Except with a GoldWing you are always using both brakes.
Exactly. I've had quite a few people remark, "oh, I only use my rear brake to stop, that way this never happens." Or, "I just use trail braking, that solves the problem."

But rear brake on most Goldwings also means front brake! I'm really surprised at how many Goldwing owners don't know that their rear brake also actuates at least one of their front calipers.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by jerryd15 »

Great video. I probably learned that years ago but forgot a lot. I am a duck walker. I ride double most of the time. I need to practice this and improve my style. Thanks Scott.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by plenzmeier »

Nice video, I appreciate your efforts in creating it. I too, am a Ride Like A Pro graduate, as well as an MSF Certified RiderCoach.

Regarding the "duck walking" conversation (we call it power walking), it is recommended over dragging your feet. I explain to students that while you are developing your riding skills, there is no shame in power walking, either from a stop until your bike is stable, or for the last few feet of coming to a stop. Exercise 2 of 17 in the Basic Rider Course teaches power walking as a step in skill development. On the other hand, foot dragging is shameful, and proof you are afraid to really ride your bike due to your limited skills as low speeds and in limited spaces.

If you are the 10th vehicle in line at a stop sign, power walking as you shuffle forward a half car length at a time can make a lot of sense. Parades are common applications for power walking your bike as well. During early skill development we insist on at least 2 steps when starting to discourage the tell-tale frog-hop onto the pegs. Leaping onto the pegs prematurely looks like a rookie move and does nothing to provide stability or build confidence. Lets not shame those people who take a few steps starting or stopping. And lets call out those foot draggers that seem to have forgotten what the foot pegs are for.

Keep up the good work!
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Solo So Long »

The only correction that I would make is that, when stopping, you come off the FRONT brake, but hold the pedal until the bike stops moving. Left foot down for balance and support. If it's a long stop, then hold the front brake and put the right foot down to keep the bike upright with both feet while you wait to go again.

Holding the pedal into the stop gives you the most control at low speed (feathering clutch and rear brake lets you creep along the whole day if you want to), and lets the front suspension unload by pivoting on the rear tire.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Solo So Long »

WingAdmin wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:39 am
Rambozo wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:56 am Except with a GoldWing you are always using both brakes.
Exactly. I've had quite a few people remark, "oh, I only use my rear brake to stop, that way this never happens." Or, "I just use trail braking, that solves the problem."

But rear brake on most Goldwings also means front brake! I'm really surprised at how many Goldwing owners don't know that their rear brake also actuates at least one of their front calipers.
This worried me, when I first got on the Wing, but I discovered that there is more braking on the rear than on the linked front, if you use controlled pressure rather than putting your whole boot into it.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Solo So Long »

blupupher wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:53 pm I took a slow speed handling course (Ride Like a Pro) last year
. . .proving that you want to be an expert rider, so you're not afraid to look like a rookie while you improve your skills.

I can't tell you how many miles I've done in cone courses over the years just for fun, but it's a bunch. I don't count the number of cones I've put tire marks on, but it's many more than two.

Everyone should get Palladino's vids, take his course, and take MSF.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by blupupher »

Solo So Long wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:51 pm
blupupher wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:53 pm I took a slow speed handling course (Ride Like a Pro) last year
. . .proving that you want to be an expert rider, so you're not afraid to look like a rookie while you improve your skills.

I can't tell you how many miles I've done in cone courses over the years just for fun, but it's a bunch. I don't count the number of cones I've put tire marks on, but it's many more than two.

Everyone should get Palladino's vids, take his course, and take MSF.
I took a basic MSF course with my daughter last November (she ended up not finishing, but I did).
I was 15 when I did my first MSF course (I am 53 now). Very little has changed in the training that I can remember from the first time, but I still feel I learned when I did it again.
The MSF instructor told me he was a little worried I would keep trying to "instruct" my daughter, but I told him I was there to learn, and would not say a peep to her about how to ride. I listened to my instruction and did as told, and even though I did not learn as much as I did with the Ride Like a Pro class, I still learned something.
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Nicksacco »

Thank you, Scott.
A well done video as always.
One thing I don't do enough of is practicing things like stopping (correctly), tight turns in parking lot, etc.
You've given me good reasons for practicing!
Ride often and long!
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Re: Stopping your bike! (VIDEO)

Post by Macca1066 »

I agree with all the positive comments & that there are so many riders that can’t stop or turn their bike correctly.
I live & ride in New South Wales, Australia & I play a game with myself on most rides (a quick trip to the shop or touring for several days. When I see the lights change I slow the bike to walking speed without dipping the front under hard braking. I them continue moving at less than walking speed & depending on the particular traffic situation, so slowly that it can take a minute or a little more to go ten metres (yards for those using feet, miles etc.).
I’m not as good as the Police Motorcycle Competitions. Every two or three years I do a Motorcycle Rider Road Skills course. They cost a few hundred dollars but help me to see situations developing and looking at ways to avoid being involved when vehicles start hitting each other.
Those that think they are already the best (read “safest”) rider they can be will never believe that someone can teach them anything.
Anyone can ride a motorcycle for a time and not become a statistic, but the smart riders train themselves & practice to be better riders.

I’m doing San Francisco to Chicago in May 2023 & hope to chat with a few Goldwing Docs people on the trip, so look for a Harley with an Australian Flag flying on the aerial.

Thanks,
Macca1066
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New South Wales.
Australia.


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