Be careful what you ask for


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Rambozo
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Be careful what you ask for

Post by Rambozo »



Ron Smith and his girlfriend Brenda Volpe were both killed in a motorcycle crash from blunt force trauma to the head. Of course neither were wearing helmets. Ron Smith was the Florida attorney that helped to get the helmet law in Florida overturned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dgear.html

I dislike helmet laws on principal, but I always wear one.


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Sassy
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by Sassy »

What I dont understand is why there even has to be a law.
I wear one while quading too. A buddy didnt but started when he rides with me. Recently tumbled his machine , cracked a rib, sore and a pretty good scar on his helmet.
Enjoying the 2xDarkside
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Jumperdumper
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by Jumperdumper »

A half helmet saves my head on March 27, 2021. I always wear a helmet even though here in Indiana I do not have to wear one.
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brettchallenger
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by brettchallenger »

This will always be a fiery topic. And yes, I generally agree there is always a need for some legislation to protect people from themselves. But you have to consider, where should it stop. In the UK, where I live, there are politicians and others of influence (the medical profession et al) who have campaigned for the banning of motorcycles altogether, and various sports, incl motor sport, boxing, rugby - the list goes on. We all saw how readily politicians and others embraced draconian rules on our freedom during the Corona pandemic, with entire nations "locked down" and their populations subjected to ludicrous mask wearing.

Indeed, "be careful what you ask for".

PS Ending sentences with prepositions should be illegal! - "Be careful for what you ask".
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by Ralf_CT »

Helmets are worth their weight in gold, I don't know how people can ride without, just like those driving without safety belts. But that ground off helmet pic in the newsletter looks staged, nobody's head will remain in the same position long enough to produce that perfect ground off result.
Ex GL1100 Interstate rider. Aspiring GL1500/1800 rider.
joecoolsuncle
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by joecoolsuncle »

Ralf_CT wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:15 am Helmets are worth their weight in gold, I don't know how people can ride without, just like those driving without safety belts. But that ground off helmet pic in the newsletter looks staged, nobody's head will remain in the same position long enough to produce that perfect ground off result.
how long did it take? a quick bounce on the tarmac is all it takes.
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garym
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by garym »

After they dress you the way they want, they’ll come after your bike!

Credentials? OK, I’m 76, have been riding since 17, and have a collection of helmets. I have a couple for racing stock cars (gave that up 8 years ago) and several motorcycle helmets. FYI – most MC helmets are not approved for professional auto racing. When my kids started riding they asked why some people wear them and others don’t. Simple I said, some people have something worth protecting and others don’t. I always wear a helmet.

But the issue here is government intervention. I am STRONGLY opposed to helmet laws, or for that matter, anything with the “daddy” government. The USA was founded on the principle of personal freedom. There are times when people will make bad choices. This leftist idea that we have to protect them from themselves is not just BS. It’s anti-freedom/anti-USA.

I go to the gym regularly, eat healthily, avoid an unhealthy lifestyle, try to make smart decisions, and take care of myself. So, unless you’re willing to give up ALL of your freedom and regulate all of the above and more, don’t tell me about the “cost” to society. The cost of freedom, here in the USA, has traditionally been measured in lives and fortunes, not a few dollars for idiots. I’ve spent a fortune on helmets and protective gear (wanna add that too?), so a few more dollars to keep my freedom is easily worth it.

Lastly, one of the reasons I do all of the above is so I can ride my bikes. As a result of both running and old age (man, how I hate that!), my neck is giving me grief. I’m worried that sooner or later, my choice will be the weight of a helmet on my neck vs. the protection it provides. Here, in the communist-run state of Illinois, that choice remains mine. I’m amazed some bikers don’t understand and/or embrace freedom.

After they dress you the way they want, they’ll come after your bike!
JohnV
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by JohnV »

A decision that can only affect the individual is called a “Choice” and should never be a law. Heart disease is the #1 killer according to the CDC. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are the main contributors. High blood pressure develops over time and typically due to unhealthy lifestyle choices. So, do we need to pass laws? Overweight tax? Trans fats are a major factor in high cholesterol which are often found in packaged snacks or desserts. Should the lawmakers ban packaged snacks and desserts?
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eklimek
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by eklimek »

My helmet didn’t prevent the fractured ribs, clavicle, scapula, fingers or pulmonary contusion. It just let me live to ride again.

Best of luck to you.
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dwarven1
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by dwarven1 »

Rambozo wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:56 am Ron Smith and his girlfriend Brenda Volpe were both killed in a motorcycle crash from blunt force trauma to the head. Of course neither were wearing helmets. Ron Smith was the Florida attorney that helped to get the helmet law in Florida overturned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dgear.html

I dislike helmet laws on principal, but I always wear one.
Exactly my opinion - we're all big boys and girls. The choice to wear a helmet or not should be our own. That said, you aren't ever going to see me riding without one, because my choice is to wear one.
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mnmailman
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by mnmailman »

Should be up to the individual. Just like seat belt laws, etc.
My wife and I always wear ours fwiw.
wilsonw
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by wilsonw »

Very young in life I rode my dirt bike with no helmet.......then I crashed and had my bell rung.......since then, I have always worn a brain bucket(helmet). I also wear one when bicycling but not my motorcycle helmet of course...
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mleggieri
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by mleggieri »

I survived a crash in 2012 that would have been fatal had I not been wearing a full face helmet. That said, I do not support government-mandated helmet wear. I believe in taking personal responsibility for my health and safety, and in making personal decisions based on risks versus benefits.
Ralf_CT
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by Ralf_CT »

JohnV wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:43 am A decision that can only affect the individual is called a “Choice” and should never be a law. Heart disease is the #1 killer according to the CDC. High blood pressure and high cholesterol are the main contributors. High blood pressure develops over time and typically due to unhealthy lifestyle choices. So, do we need to pass laws? Overweight tax? Trans fats are a major factor in high cholesterol which are often found in packaged snacks or desserts. Should the lawmakers ban packaged snacks and desserts?
Well, in France the fats and sugars contained in fast foods and drinks are dramatically less due to legislation. I can't recall seeing many fat French people. In Mexico there's a Coke (the drink, not the drug) addiction, with many - including breadwinners - dying before their time due to diabetes and other associated diseases. Yes, in this case it makes sense for lawmakers to step in and regulate the manufacturers. I've had muesli which was so sweet, I couldn't eat it.
Ex GL1100 Interstate rider. Aspiring GL1500/1800 rider.
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brettchallenger
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by brettchallenger »

I can't recall seeing many fat French people.
It's estimated that nearly half the population of France are obese. Why is a mixture of things. Fast foods have gained a foothold in France, liked particularly by the young (and immigrants), thus the traditional, very healthy diet has started to suffer. Most people now have sedentary occupations and simply do not burn off their colories. But there are no controls over the amounts of fat and sugars allowed in food - this would be a disaster for French cuisine and there would be riots in the streets. What the French have done is increase taxes on sugary drinks and put controls on advertising junk foods especially when they were aimed at children.
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
hondaazz
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by hondaazz »

I smacked a deer at about 30 back in October 2019. If I wasn't wearing a helmet I would've had at the very least road rash on my right side of my head and jaw. I've never needed a law to force me to wear a helmet - common sense does! I've got a friend whom rides the "other" H-brand and doesn't like to wear a helmet. That's his choice though. Land of the free!
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77Goldwing
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by 77Goldwing »

I am almost 71 and wear a helmet by choice in Michigan.

I am okay with all the "no to government interference" posters here. But, if you have an accident with significant head trauma, take financial responsibility too and do not apply for Social Security Disability or, in Michigan, the MCCA catastrophic insurance coverage (which can cover severe injuries for life). You have a right to ride the way you want but you should bear the costs of your poor decision, not through my taxes or insurance payments.
1977 Goldwing GL1000
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1973 CB450/K6 (sold) (1976-Schenectady NY to Guadalajara MX and back)
1972 CB100 (sold)
GoldWing Eagle
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by GoldWing Eagle »

Choice not mandatory
Drair
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by Drair »

I could care less if you get killed because of a head injury on your motorcycle that could have been prevented had you worn a helmet. You want to right to die needlessly? Ok by me. But as 77Goldwing stated, don’t make me pay for your LT care, ventilator, conversion ADA van, etc. It is simply a fact that many MC riders are lowly educated and are not wealthy people, and when those riders suffer serious injuries we all pay for their risk taking, poor decisions, and predictable results. If we could just let non-helmet wearers sign a waiver of all possible subsequent social services, I’d be happy. I’d still think they look like fools riding without a helmet but they’d have that freedom.
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echinus1988
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by echinus1988 »

I have finally become a member of ATGATT. I always wear my helmet, jacket, gloves, boots and finally added riding pants.

A few years ago I did actually crash, my fault, not anyone else's. A couple rash areas and a mild concussion. Yes, I was wearing my helmet and when I finally saw my helmet I was happy it took the damage. I still cannot recall the accident and never realized I was in one. Something of note, I crashed at about 35 mph. Scared the heck out of my son. I asked the same question three times within about 1.5 minutes.

I believe in protective gear and I'm more for education and personal choice rather than legislation.
joecoolsuncle
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by joecoolsuncle »

eklimek wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:18 am My helmet didn’t prevent the fractured ribs, clavicle, scapula, fingers or pulmonary contusion. It just let me live to ride again.

Best of luck to you.
sure screwed up that cool custom paint. how long did that take? :D
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brettchallenger
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by brettchallenger »

don’t make me pay for your LT care, ventilator, conversion ADA van, etc.
The denial of health care and other services based upon lifestyle is a very slippery slope. Why stop at motorcyclists? There are lots of choices people make about their lifestyles which may well have serious health consequences eg contact sports, horse riding, taking various drugs, drinking alcohol, smoking, obesity - I am sure there are lots more to add. If you are going to exclude these groups, will they no longer be required to pay taxes?
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
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77Goldwing
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by 77Goldwing »

Brett, you do make a good point. I go back and forth internally on whether we should be all caring (maybe that "socialism" you reference) or selfish. I am a proponent of SNAP and pre-natal and early child health and nutrition care for the poor. But I now live in a country where many believe the government aid they receive is deserved but it is being stolen by a person of a different skin hue or living in a city. They believe that being paid not to plant crops is good business but paying for a poor unwed mother to feed her children is welfare. (Artificial price supports to keep crop prices profitable is farmer welfare.) Maybe they both are! And we lack universal health care, unlike you, but public hospitals have to treat whomever shows up in their ER and end up passing those unreimbursed costs on to those who pay for insurance (like me). As a result we have those who work or run businesses who refuse to buy insurance because they know they will receive free care (for which someone else ends up paying).

The MCCA catastrophic insurance in Michigan has been a hot button for me for the 20 years I have lived here. At one point, it added almost US$250/year to annual insurance each for cars and motorcycles. They had to build up reserves because many injuries were so severe that it cost millions to keep a badly crippled individual alive for the balance of their lives. So, just maybe, in my selfish moments, I do think that if you ride w/o a helmet, or do not buckle your seat belt, or are drunker than ****, then you bear the consequences and not push those costs back on society and on me.
1977 Goldwing GL1000
Vetter SS fairing/lowers; custom saddle seat
Purchased 6/30/1978, 1585 miles

1973 CB450/K6 (sold) (1976-Schenectady NY to Guadalajara MX and back)
1972 CB100 (sold)
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brettchallenger
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by brettchallenger »

Thanks for your reply, 77. I do in fact support compulsory wearing of helmets/seat belts - some people (including me) do need to be protected from themselves. But it is a slippery slope and it is never really clear where things will stop.
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
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kwthom
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Re: Be careful what you ask for

Post by kwthom »

Original article:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2 ... aring-one/

Last five paragraphs make the story...
After the crash, the American Legion Post in Holiday implemented a handful of new safety rules, according to its rider director, Eddie Rodriguez.

They will ask riders whether they have taken any motorcycle safety courses, and if not, connect them to a class. Riders will be asked about their experience level and medical histories. They’ll also be required to do a road test before going on rides with the group, and ride in the back of the formation on their first group ride.

The post isn’t requiring helmets, though they are highly encouraged, Rodriguez said. He said the group doesn’t want to alienate those who might not want to wear them.

Even so, that rule might not be needed at this point. Riders who had previously resisted helmets have started wearing them, Rodriguez said. And on his first ride after the deaths, Rodriguez made an observation while looking at all the riders in the group.

“Every single one had a helmet on,” he said.
Just because you can may not mean you should.

RIP riders.


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