How to install the GL1500 shifter brace


Step-by-step tutorials on how to maintain and fix your GL1500
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peppilepew
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:07 am



It has begun. Counterfeit pivots on ebay. I remember selling a pivot to the fraud. I was hesitant to send one to Russia for this very reason. The way of the world these days.



ram1009
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:16 am

peppilepew wrote:It has begun. Counterfeit pivots on ebay. I remember selling a pivot to the fraud. I was hesitant to send one to Russia for this very reason. The way of the world these days.

He's even using your picture. I contacted them a week ago and got an unintelligible answer. Anybody who buys anything from Russia deserves what they get.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by Wingryder1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:21 am

I am going to add this fix very soon. Two things.. 1. Could the use of Loctite (the strongest one.. red?) help the problem of the block coming loose on the Honda shift shaft? Some will shudder at this but what about scoring the shifter so the Loctite has a place to bite on. (this idea might have to be done with shaft out as in seal replacement or score Cliff's block for the same purpose. ) The heat idea should work but is a little spooky. I also like the idea of witness marking. I did this on my swing arm replacement so I could watch those fasteners.


2. I have not got into this myself yet but would like more information on the miniumum heat shield trimming required. (measure twice cut once)

thanks
wingryder

ram1009
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:10 pm

Wingryder1 wrote:I am going to add this fix very soon. Two things.. 1. Could the use of Loctite (the strongest one.. red?) help the problem of the block coming loose on the Honda shift shaft? Some will shudder at this but what about scoring the shifter so the Loctite has a place to bite on. (this idea might have to be done with shaft out as in seal replacement or score Cliff's block for the same purpose. ) The heat idea should work but is a little spooky. I also like the idea of witness marking. I did this on my swing arm replacement so I could watch those fasteners.


2. I have not got into this myself yet but would like more information on the miniumum heat shield trimming required. (measure twice cut once)

thanks
wingryder
Loctite would be the last thing I would use in this situation. First, the heat from the exhaust would probably prevent blue Loctite from working and the red is out of the question for me because if it works it's PERMANENT. You'll probably never get I loose without breaking something. Here's what I would do. Anything that creates friction on a threaded part will prevent it from vibrating loose. In situations where Loctite is inappropriate I like to deform the male thread SLIGHTLY by placing the threaded portion of the fastener on a flat hard piece of metal (like the anvil portion of a bench vise) and tapping the top of the thread with a ball peen hammer. If you do this properly you will "mushroom" the points of a couple of threads SLIGHTLY so as to create some drag when engaged with the female thread. It takes a little practice to get it right so don't ruin your parts.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:22 pm

ram1009 wrote:...if it works it's PERMANENT. You'll probably never get I loose without breaking something.
It is not permanent. It can be removed easily after the parts are heated to approximately 230 degrees. And, Loc-Tite is much safer than deforming threads on an otherwise perfectly good part.
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peppilepew
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:57 pm

Red Loctite will not work anywhere in that area. The heat buildup behind those shields is incredible. Heat breaks down Loctite. 620 Loctite will work for a while. It won't be permanent either. You shouldn't need any Loctite. One installed and aligned properly it will not loosen.....

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:09 pm

MikeB wrote:
ram1009 wrote:...if it works it's PERMANENT. You'll probably never get I loose without breaking something.
It is not permanent. It can be removed easily after the parts are heated to approximately 230 degrees. And, Loc-Tite is much safer than deforming threads on an otherwise perfectly good part.

Well, I'm afraid we have different ideas of what permanent means. If 230 F is in fact the magic number for red Loctite I think the bolt in question is at risk for getting that hot as close to the exhaust as it is. But, it's your bike. Personally, I have no problem with deforming a $.50 part if it serves a purpose. Maybe you're not aware that you can buy locking hardware with factory deformed threads. My way is cheaper.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:34 pm

ram1009 wrote: Maybe you're not aware that you can buy locking hardware with factory deformed threads. My way is cheaper.
I need to correct myself, it will actually take about 500 degrees Fahrenheit to remove a part properly assembled with Red Loctite. My mistake.

I've done it many times.

I am aware that factory deformed threads are procurable and there are many many more types available. The trouble is, when you use the deforming style of lock nut, it is designed to damage the threads of the shaft it is installed on. Then, the shaft it is installed on needs to be replaced if ever you need to remove that deformed nut. If you are dealing with common nut and bolt hardware, replacement is not a problem. But if you are working on a shaft that is not readily replaceable, you risk the possibility of destroying the parts you are working on.

There is also a Loctite product available that is used on shafts and bearings. It may be more appropriste for what Wingryder1 has in mind. Green Threadlocker is recommended for locking preassembled fasteners, e.g. electrical connectors and set screws. The product is categorized as medium-to-high-strength for wicking. It is also available in a liquid form, cures in 24 hours and can be removed with heat and hand tools.
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ram1009
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:11 pm

MikeB wrote:
ram1009 wrote: Maybe you're not aware that you can buy locking hardware with factory deformed threads. My way is cheaper.
I need to correct myself, it will actually take about 500 degrees Fahrenheit to remove a part properly assembled with Red Loctite. My mistake.

I've done it many times.

I am aware that factory deformed threads are procurable and there are many many more types available. The trouble is, when you use the deforming style of lock nut, it is designed to damage the threads of the shaft it is installed on. Then, the shaft it is installed on needs to be replaced if ever you need to remove that deformed nut. If you are dealing with common nut and bolt hardware, replacement is not a problem. But if you are working on a shaft that is not readily replaceable, you risk the possibility of destroying the parts you are working on.

There is also a Loctite product available that is used on shafts and bearings. It may be more appropriste for what Wingryder1 has in mind. Green Threadlocker is recommended for locking preassembled fasteners, e.g. electrical connectors and set screws. The product is categorized as medium-to-high-strength for wicking. It is also available in a liquid form, cures in 24 hours and can be removed with heat and hand tools.
Well, I stand by my original statement about red Loctite. Anything you must heat to 500°F to remove is well beyond normal removal. Also, you appear to be assuming I'm advocating deforming the male thread enough to damage the female thread. I'm not. Please note I used the word SLIGHTLY more than once and recommended some practice to get a feel for how much deforming created the proper amount of drag. Only a slight amount is required, not enough to damage the female thread. As you, I have done this many times with good success. BTW, if you're really concerned about damaging the bolt, you can always run it through a die to restore the thread.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:44 pm

We all have our own methods of doing things.
The more information provided in these forums the better informed the reader will be to make his or her own decision as to which method better suits their style.
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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:24 pm

MikeB wrote:We all have our own methods of doing things.
The more information provided in these forums the better informed the reader will be to make his or her own decision as to which method better suits their style.
+1

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by roadwanderer2 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:24 pm

not to get off track about this, but I have a question to ask...I've heard that some of the GL1500's have transmission problems, IE: the loss of 4th gear, could this worn down shifter shaft have anything to do with it? the reason im asking is I was looking at an ad for an 91 GL1500 with over 165,000 miles on it that the 4th gear doesn't work in it, but all the other gears including reverse still works and I was wondering if a worn shifter shaft had anything to do with it and would it be a simple fix. just curious about it.

stuart.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:13 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:not to get off track about this, but I have a question to ask...I've heard that some of the GL1500's have transmission problems, IE: the loss of 4th gear, could this worn down shifter shaft have anything to do with it? the reason im asking is I was looking at an ad for an 91 GL1500 with over 165,000 miles on it that the 4th gear doesn't work in it, but all the other gears including reverse still works and I was wondering if a worn shifter shaft had anything to do with it and would it be a simple fix. just curious about it.

stuart.
I doubt there's any relationship here although it's tough to know what might be happening internally as the external shaft wobbles around. Just to be clear the only external symptoms of this situation are a prematurely worn out shift shaft oil seal, not a "worn down shifter shaft". If you're thinking you can replace something externally to revive 4th gear internally I think it's wishful thinking.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by roadwanderer2 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:18 pm

ram1009 wrote:
roadwanderer2 wrote:not to get off track about this, but I have a question to ask...I've heard that some of the GL1500's have transmission problems, IE: the loss of 4th gear, could this worn down shifter shaft have anything to do with it? the reason im asking is I was looking at an ad for an 91 GL1500 with over 165,000 miles on it that the 4th gear doesn't work in it, but all the other gears including reverse still works and I was wondering if a worn shifter shaft had anything to do with it and would it be a simple fix. just curious about it.

stuart.
I doubt there's any relationship here although it's tough to know what might be happening internally as the external shaft wobbles around. Just to be clear the only external symptoms of this situation are a prematurely worn out shift shaft oil seal, not a "worn down shifter shaft". If you're thinking you can replace something externally to revive 4th gear internally I think it's wishful thinking.
hey ram, thanks for your reply. I wasn't sure, that's why I asked. i'll do some more research on it and figure it out. I can get the bike at a descent price, but with no 4th gear, i'll have to think about it more first.

thanks,

stuart.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:23 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:
ram1009 wrote:
roadwanderer2 wrote:not to get off track about this, but I have a question to ask...I've heard that some of the GL1500's have transmission problems, IE: the loss of 4th gear, could this worn down shifter shaft have anything to do with it? the reason im asking is I was looking at an ad for an 91 GL1500 with over 165,000 miles on it that the 4th gear doesn't work in it, but all the other gears including reverse still works and I was wondering if a worn shifter shaft had anything to do with it and would it be a simple fix. just curious about it.

stuart.
I doubt there's any relationship here although it's tough to know what might be happening internally as the external shaft wobbles around. Just to be clear the only external symptoms of this situation are a prematurely worn out shift shaft oil seal, not a "worn down shifter shaft". If you're thinking you can replace something externally to revive 4th gear internally I think it's wishful thinking.
hey ram, thanks for your reply. I wasn't sure, that's why I asked. i'll do some more research on it and figure it out. I can get the bike at a descent price, but with no 4th gear, i'll have to think about it more first.

thanks,

stuart.

There's another DIY on this forum describing the problem and the fix. It requires engine removal. OUCH!! There are always engines on ebay for under $500.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by Wingryder1 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:59 pm

My proposal to use Loctite in the installation of the shifter brace was not to use it on the threads of the pinch bolt but on the shifter shaft itself. I even asked about scoring the shifter shaft so the Loctite would bite. No mention of the pinch bolt and its threads. Way earlier in this post... a rider was having trouble making the pivot and the shifter stay where it was set. After some heat expansion it would move. I would think "permanent" is the goal here. Maybe Cliff could tell us... if
this is a problem and his cure. It is his product.


dm

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:29 pm

Wingryder1 wrote:My proposal to use Loctite in the installation of the shifter brace was not to use it on the threads of the pinch bolt but on the shifter shaft itself. I even asked about scoring the shifter shaft so the Loctite would bite. No mention of the pinch bolt and its threads. Way earlier in this post... a rider was having trouble making the pivot and the shifter stay where it was set. After some heat expansion it would move. I would think "permanent" is the goal here. Maybe Cliff could tell us... if
this is a problem and his cure. It is his product.


dm
The problem you speak of is very rare. I would just clean the shaft of any oily residue and tighten it snugly. No need for loctite. It just won't hold with the amount of heat behind that shield. It is easy to get to anyway if by some slim chance it does loosen. the new batch of pivots are much tighter around the shaft than the earlier ones.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by ram1009 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:46 pm

peppilepew wrote:
Wingryder1 wrote:My proposal to use Loctite in the installation of the shifter brace was not to use it on the threads of the pinch bolt but on the shifter shaft itself. I even asked about scoring the shifter shaft so the Loctite would bite. No mention of the pinch bolt and its threads. Way earlier in this post... a rider was having trouble making the pivot and the shifter stay where it was set. After some heat expansion it would move. I would think "permanent" is the goal here. Maybe Cliff could tell us... if
this is a problem and his cure. It is his product.


dm
The problem you speak of is very rare. I would just clean the shaft of any oily residue and tighten it snugly. No need for loctite. It just won't hold with the amount of heat behind that shield. It is easy to get to anyway if by some slim chance it does loosen. the new batch of pivots are much tighter around the shaft than the earlier ones.
Had you corrected me sooner we could have spared each other our dissertations on the pros/conns of Loctite and deformed threads. When I first watched the video of the installation I thought the shaft was suppose to turn in the brace mainly because Cliff went to such extremes to clean/polish the shaft with sandpaper. Now that I have a better understanding of how it works IMHO anything beyond cleaning is unnecessary. If the shaft ever turns it's either because the pinch bolt was inadequately tightened or it came loose, IMHO. And, again I stand by my original remedy for this of deforming the pinch bolt thread SLIGHTLY. Only enough to cause enough drag when tightened to avoid vibrating loose. That's what I will do when I install mine.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:52 pm

ram1009 wrote:
peppilepew wrote:
Wingryder1 wrote:My proposal to use Loctite in the installation of the shifter brace was not to use it on the threads of the pinch bolt but on the shifter shaft itself. I even asked about scoring the shifter shaft so the Loctite would bite. No mention of the pinch bolt and its threads. Way earlier in this post... a rider was having trouble making the pivot and the shifter stay where it was set. After some heat expansion it would move. I would think "permanent" is the goal here. Maybe Cliff could tell us... if
this is a problem and his cure. It is his product.


dm
The problem you speak of is very rare. I would just clean the shaft of any oily residue and tighten it snugly. No need for loctite. It just won't hold with the amount of heat behind that shield. It is easy to get to anyway if by some slim chance it does loosen. the new batch of pivots are much tighter around the shaft than the earlier ones.
Had you corrected me sooner we could have spared each other our dissertations on the pros/conns of Loctite and deformed threads. When I first watched the video of the installation I thought the shaft was suppose to turn in the brace mainly because Cliff went to such extremes to clean/polish the shaft with sandpaper. Now that I have a better understanding of how it works IMHO anything beyond cleaning is unnecessary. If the shaft ever turns it's either because the pinch bolt was inadequately tightened or it came loose, IMHO. And, again I stand by my original remedy for this of deforming the pinch bolt thread SLIGHTLY. Only enough to cause enough drag when tightened to avoid vibrating loose. That's what I will do when I install mine.
;)

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by Wingryder1 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:17 pm

Well I finally got around to installing my shifter brace. After some struggles getting the mounting surface close to vertical, I have it working now. It would bind everything up when I started to tighten up the mount bolt. But while laying there under the bike and studying things.. I decided this whole thread about fastening the Honda shift shaft to Cliff's pivot was way out in left field. Looks like to me the entire job of the bolt that tightens around the Honda shift shaft is to keep the pivot from sliding to the "right" and out of the pivot block. It is the wide block surface on the pivot that is holding the shift shaft where it should be.
The "tension" here is only necessary to keep the pivot from escaping to the right. (Cliff will correct me if my theory is wet)
Note: Cliff says I am dead wrong here... and explains why below.
I will also add that if you bolt the brace up.. and it binds as mine did... that is the time to remove that lower fairing so you can get the crash bar off. I of course tried to short cut this fix and took me twice as long.
dm
Last edited by Wingryder1 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:17 pm

Wingryder1 wrote:Well I finally got around to installing my shifter brace. After some struggles getting the mounting surface close to vertical, I have it working now. It would bind everything up when I started to tighten up the mount bolt. But while laying there under the bike and studying things.. I decided this whole thread about fastening the Honda shift shaft to Cliff's pivot was way out in left field. Looks like to me the entire job of the bolt that tightens around the Honda shift shaft is to keep the pivot from sliding to the "right" and out of the pivot block. It is the wide block surface on the pivot that is holding the shift shaft were it should be.
The "tension" here is only necessary to keep the pivot from escaping to the right. (Cliff will correct me if my theory is wet)

I will also add that if you bolt the brace up.. and it binds as mine did... that is the time to remove that lower fairing so you can get the crash bar off. I of course tried to short cut this fix and took me twice as long.
dm
No, the pivot must be tight on the shaft. It has to do with maintaining the original geometry of the shaft extension. While loosening the pivot to shaft cinch bolt will free up some binding issues, it needs to be tight. How can I help?

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by Wingryder1 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:04 pm

Ok thanks for the clarification. Mine is tight and working fine. The only problem I had was the mounting point.
I found it tough to figure how which way to "rebend" them...other than trial and error.


dm

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by Wingryder1 » Sun May 03, 2015 1:05 pm

I said in earlier post my brace was working perfectly. As I tried it on a run or two it did help the shifter feel more solid but I was still not happy with the install. No matter what I tried when I would tighten up the mounting bolt.. it would remove any "wiggle" in the shifter and I had visions of the shift forks dragging and all the grief that would cause. To be fair.. this bike was
insurance "totaled" about 80k ago.

So my cure was to drill a small hole through the head of the bolt and through the crash bar brace. Then I was able to leave the
mounting bolt just a tad loose so everything was free and the "neutral wiggle" was there. Safety wired the bolt (as in aircraft engines) with a piece of stranded steel wire so it could not back off any more.

Now I have the advantage of Cliff"s shifter brace.. and peace of mind knowing it is not dragging. Overkill? Yes but works for me.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by peppilepew » Sun May 03, 2015 4:03 pm

Wingryder1 wrote:I said in earlier post my brace was working perfectly. As I tried it on a run or two it did help the shifter feel more solid but I was still not happy with the install. No matter what I tried when I would tighten up the mounting bolt.. it would remove any "wiggle" in the shifter and I had visions of the shift forks dragging and all the grief that would cause. To be fair.. this bike was
insurance "totaled" about 80k ago.

So my cure was to drill a small hole through the head of the bolt and through the crash bar brace. Then I was able to leave the
mounting bolt just a tad loose so everything was free and the "neutral wiggle" was there. Safety wired the bolt (as in aircraft engines) with a piece of stranded steel wire so it could not back off any more.

Now I have the advantage of Cliff"s shifter brace.. and peace of mind knowing it is not dragging. Overkill? Yes but works for me.

great idea.

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Re: How to install the GL1500 shifter brace

Post by paladin » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:37 am

Will this fit on a GL1500 Valkyrie? I have a sloppy shifter and a leaking seal so this would be the time to do this if I am replacing the seal anyway. Also where do I get it. It is no longer on Cyclemax?



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