Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control


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Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »



This content was hosted on another site, which has since vanished. I had a copy of this page before the site vanished, so I'm preserving it here for future reference. I'm not sure who the original author is:

Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

For the past 13 years - ever since its introduction - riders have been looking for a way to extend the maximum speed at which the cruise control could be set. The efforts that I'm aware of approached the problem with the thought of "fooling" the cruise control unit into "thinking" that the bike was going slower than it actually was.

After hearing a few trike owners comment that their maximum cruise control setting was different - lower - than a stock Wing's, and that the final drive gear ratio was normally changed to give the trike more power to pull the extra weight, I did some digging in the shop manual and found that
  • My 95 Aspencade's Cruise Control sensed engine speed as well as road speed, and
  • There were inputs to the Cruise Control from 4th and 5th gear positions.
Sure, the fact that there was still input from the speedometer meant that road speed could still be the determining factor, and, since the Cruise Control will only work in 4th and 5th gears, the inputs could merely be giving the CC that information, but -- more tests were in order.

First, I determined, by road test, that ~80 mph CC limit was the same in both 4th and 5th gear. I also noted that the actual (GPS indicated) speed was always 78 mph, while the speedometer would indicate between 78-81 mph on any given ride, although the engine RPM was always the same. I took this as another indication that engine speed, not road speed, was the determining factor for maximum cruise speed.

It now appeared that the solution to the problem could be to try to make the CC think that the transmission was in 4th gear, although it was actually in 5th. Now, how to do this. Examining the manual (see diagram) showed the color code of the wires inputing the transmission sense into the cruise control, and also showed a connector - C33- where these wires could be accessed after inputs had gone to the engine control system. After all, I only want to fool the Cruise Control, and not the engine control module.


The picture (below) shows where this connector is located. The picture was taken by someone standing in front of the right saddle bag; the shiny black surface in the lower right of the picture is the front of the rear fender. Even though the picture caption states that the trunk is removed , as you can see by the location of the shock, it's only necessary to remove the seat to get to it.


For the test, I merely cut the red/white and green/orange wires, and cross connected them, so that the CC thinks the transmission is in 4th when it's really in 5th, and 5th when it's really in 4th. Now for the road test! I set the cruise control in 4th gear and tapped up to increase the speed. Sure enough, 65 mph was as high as it would set. Shifting into 5th, I reset the cruise and, again, started tapping up to increase the speed. 75... 78... 80... 85! Yes! and 90 mph. The cruise control maintained 90 mph as well as it used to maintain 75. I figure that it will set up to 100 mph and 4500 rpm (which is 80 mph in 4th gear.)

I know that it works on a 95, and I'll be trying it on a 96 in the next few days. I believe that it will work on any GL1500 that senses engine speed with the cruise control. For now, I think I'll leave the wires crossed; I don't foresee a reason to want to use the cruise control above 65 mph in 4th gear. A couple of other ways that should work, and that I may try later are:
  • Cut both wires, connect the red/wht wire (4th gear) from the cruise control to ground, and leave the other wire disconnected - I could then engage the cruise in any gear up to what ever speed 4500 rpm is, or
  • Cut both wires, leave the grn/org wire to the cruise control disconnected, and connect both wires from the shifter to the red/wht wire coming from the cruise control using a diode in each wire with the cathodes away from the cruise control. I could then set the cruise control up to 80 mph in 4th gear and 100 mph in 5th.


Disclaimer: This worked for me, but it may not work for you. If you decide to try it, and break something (including yourself) that is expensive to repair, don't blame me.

To date I've heard from two riders who have modified their '98SE's (one was a European version) with the desired results. At least one opted to relocate the pins in the plug to avoid cutting the wire. I've decided that is the way I'll go in the future; I won't install the diodes, since I can't see why I would ever want/need to set the cruise control faster than 65 mph in 4th gear.

Another person commented that setting the cruise control in 4th gear, shifting to 5th, and pressing "resume" results in the Wing accelerating. This makes sense, since the engine is trying to return to the same RPM in 5th gear that it was running at in 4th. I had never noticed it, since I seldom engage the cruise except in 5th.

From what I'm hearing, 93 seems to be the earliest year that this works on. I've had several reports of negative results with 92s.


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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by seniorchief »

Good that this info has been saved. If this doesn't work on your 1500, here's how I beat the limit on my 1989.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=41533
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by SlowTyper »

Thanks for posting the info. I wonder if the original article got taken down because someone surmised that 81 MPH is unsafe? If so, they need to move from Pennsylvania to one of the mid-west states.

I wished I had this info years ago. I was on a three state trip with two friends that rode 1500s. The first and last day of our trip [when the posted limit was 80 MPH] they kept falling back because of their cruise control limitation, but then manually sped up to catch up. It was not ideal at all.

The scenario created some safety concerns...

One safety issue is that the 1500s were traveling at less than the speed of most other traffic. Many Honda speedometers read almost 10% high, and their CC put them well below the 80 MPH [or more] the other traffic was traveling. This generated a lot of lane changes right on their tail.

I could have slowed down to their speed, but it would have made our long days of travel even longer, adding to our fatigue.

I have similar issues when riding with other cyclists who will not twist their throttle enough to let their speedo read any higher than those black numbers on white rectangles. And because their speedo is reading 10% high and most people drive up to 10% over the posted limit (which is intentionally set low for this very reason!), there are huge speed differences between our group of bikes and the rest of the traffic -- who then feel compelled to pass a long line of bikes on 2-lane blacktop. It's not safe...
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by AZgl1800 »

I also tied both inputs to the 4th gear input
worked like a charm.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by Bob380S2 »

Great article, thanks for posting it. Worked for me on my 2000 GL1500SE. I swapped the female connector terminals in the 22 pin block which I found just pushed out and are right next to each so very easy. Cruise control works up to about a 100 MPH now in 5th. Thanks
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by Rhorn »

I did it the same way by swappping the female connectors. Easy, clean, and efficient.
Perfect
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by vladimirch »

I did it the same way by swappping the female pins 3 and 4 in black connector C33 on my 1995 GL1500 Europe ver.
For me it works on 100%
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by blupupher »

Got mine done today.
I also did the pin swap, seemed much easier than cutting wires and such, and easily reversible if needed.

Since we have most rural highways with 75 mph speed limits, several with 80 mph, and even 1 road with 85 mph, I need to be able to set it higher to stay with traffic and be safe.
The not being able to set the cruise above 65 mph in 4th is really a non-issue for me, since only time I am in 4th @ 65 is if I am passing or on my way to 5th.

One thing I need to check, does it now let you set the cruise lower than 30 mph? Not that I would, it would be lugging in 4th below 30 mph.
1994 GL1500 Goldwing SE
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by AZgl1800 »

blupupher wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:19 pm Got mine done today.
I also did the pin swap, seemed much easier than cutting wires and such, and easily reversible if needed.

Since we have most rural highways with 75 mph speed limits, several with 80 mph, and even 1 road with 85 mph, I need to be able to set it higher to stay with traffic and be safe.
The not being able to set the cruise above 65 mph in 4th is really a non-issue for me, since only time I am in 4th @ 65 is if I am passing or on my way to 5th.

One thing I need to check, does it now let you set the cruise lower than 30 mph? Not that I would, it would be lugging in 4th below 30 mph.
been a long while since I owned a '94 and '98, both of which I just strapped the #4 pin over to the #5 pin... works like a charm.
can't recall what the slowest speed is for the CC, but I think 35 mph it will lock on.

my 1800 locks on at 30 mph.
~John

2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

https://i.imgur.com/4SOFPYS.jpg
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by Phunnybone »

Did mine today by swapping the female pins on my 98SE - works like a charm.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by mrchrisbarbour »

Bob380S2 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:51 am Great article, thanks for posting it. Worked for me on my 2000 GL1500SE. I swapped the female connector terminals in the 22 pin block which I found just pushed out and are right next to each so very easy. Cruise control works up to about a 100 MPH now in 5th. Thanks
Same here but I found that the #3 wire would not push out, had to work on it for about an hour. Finally came out and switched the wires but need to still road test it. Just wanted to note that these little buggers don't push out easily sometimes.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »

mrchrisbarbour wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:19 am
Bob380S2 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:51 am Great article, thanks for posting it. Worked for me on my 2000 GL1500SE. I swapped the female connector terminals in the 22 pin block which I found just pushed out and are right next to each so very easy. Cruise control works up to about a 100 MPH now in 5th. Thanks
Same here but I found that the #3 wire would not push out, had to work on it for about an hour. Finally came out and switched the wires but need to still road test it. Just wanted to note that these little buggers don't push out easily sometimes.
The pins do come out quickly and easily when you use a pin extraction tool. I use a set of tools like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-57750-Wire ... ref=sr_1_8

I have other tools for more esoteric pins, but these fit 90% of the pins I extract.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by mrchrisbarbour »

mrchrisbarbour wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:19 am
Bob380S2 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:51 am Great article, thanks for posting it. Worked for me on my 2000 GL1500SE. I swapped the female connector terminals in the 22 pin block which I found just pushed out and are right next to each so very easy. Cruise control works up to about a 100 MPH now in 5th. Thanks
Same here but I found that the #3 wire would not push out, had to work on it for about an hour. Finally came out and switched the wires but need to still road test it. Just wanted to note that these little buggers don't push out easily sometimes.
Road test was a success, got it up to 85 with no issues. It was windy with traffic so it was hard to go much faster, but I'm very pleased with this hack! 1997 Aspy.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by lordofbasement »

Just to clarify for my understanding:
By swappping the female pins 3 and 4 in black connector C33 i only fake the gear for the cruise control unit and not the ECU?
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »

lordofbasement wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:03 am Just to clarify for my understanding:
By swappping the female pins 3 and 4 in black connector C33 i only fake the gear for the cruise control unit and not the ECU?
No, it swaps it both for the ECU and the cruise control. However, the ECU doesn't care - it uses the same mapping and control for both gears, so swapping them doesn't change anything in terms of engine management.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by lordofbasement »

And why doesnt care for the ECU?
Whats then the reason for the ECU to know the gear position?
Could only be the ignition mapping or some air valves?
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »

lordofbasement wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:13 am And why doesnt care for the ECU?
Whats then the reason for the ECU to know the gear position?
Could only be the ignition mapping or some air valves?
It alters the timing advance depending on the gear it is in. The air injection solenoids are commanded by the ECU as well, but that has nothing to do with gear position. The ECU also alters timing based on intake air temperature and intake manifold pressure (vacuum).
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by AZgl1800 »

lordofbasement wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:13 am And why doesnt care for the ECU?
Whats then the reason for the ECU to know the gear position?
Could only be the ignition mapping or some air valves?
for the Cruise Control, it makes a LOT of difference, because the ECU measures RPM to use the Cruise Control information on how fast the bike is going.

IF it "thinks" the bike is in 4th gear, it re-calibrates for a higher RPM for the same speed.

so, reversing the wires puts the 4th gear information in the 5th gear "slot", that allows the cruise to be set at a higher speed in 5th gear.

it is a neat trick, zero cost, and it works.
~John

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https://i.imgur.com/4SOFPYS.jpg
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by lordofbasement »

WingAdmin wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:44 pm
It alters the timing advance depending on the gear it is in.
So i assume it is important that the gear fits to the ignition timing. It doesnt matter if the mapping in 4th and 5th is equal. But who knows that for sure? Any SC22 development engineers in this forum?
Has anyone noticed a difference in gas mileage since re-pinning?
Thanks for explanation. But in this case i have to live with the 80 mph restriction.
Imagine the ignition mapping in fullload in the area of topspeed (5200rpm) is in 4th earlier than in 5th. On a long fullthrottle trip that could be dangerous for the engine (knocking).
No knocksensor...although we here in Austria have a minimum of 95 Octane... perhaps it really doesnt matter.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »

lordofbasement wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:36 pm
WingAdmin wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:44 pm
It alters the timing advance depending on the gear it is in.
So i assume it is important that the gear fits to the ignition timing. It doesnt matter if the mapping in 4th and 5th is equal. But who knows that for sure? Any SC22 development engineers in this forum?
Has anyone noticed a difference in gas mileage since re-pinning?
Thanks for explanation. But in this case i have to live with the 80 mph restriction.
Imagine the ignition mapping in fullload in the area of topspeed (5200rpm) is in 4th earlier than in 5th. On a long fullthrottle trip that could be dangerous for the engine (knocking).
No knocksensor...although we here in Austria have a minimum of 95 Octane... perhaps it really doesnt matter.
We know that the timing in 4th and 5th is equal because in the Honda service manual, the diagnostic tests specify it as such. The ECU in the GL1500 is pretty primitive by today's standards, it doesn't have a complex map with all kinds of different timing settings - it's not even a digital map, it's just an analog computer that makes preset adjustments based on inputs. The ECU doesn't directly control the timing, it simply turns on or off the vacuum advance that switches between normal and advanced timing - either one or the other, nothing in between. In the case of 4th and 5th gears, the timing setting is the same, so swapping the wires for those two gears does not change anything at all.
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by lordofbasement »

Armed with this competent information, I now dare to swap the cables. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain it to me exactly. I have 27 years of experience in engine development and perhaps that is precisely why I am skeptical when it comes to changes in engine management. Thanks for dissecting the issue - goldwing doc! :)
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by WingAdmin »

lordofbasement wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:09 am Armed with this competent information, I now dare to swap the cables. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain it to me exactly. I have 27 years of experience in engine development and perhaps that is precisely why I am skeptical when it comes to changes in engine management. Thanks for dissecting the issue - goldwing doc! :)
No problem, glad to be of assistance! :)
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Re: Beating The ~80 MPH Limit of the GL1500's Cruise Control

Post by lordofbasement »

Maximum Speed with cruise control in 5th is now 159 km/h / 99 mph. Thank you all!


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