engine oil

[bykerbiker]

Hi any of you guys using semi synthetic oil or even synthetic in your engines [83 Interstate], I'm about to change my oil & filter , question is is it wise to change to a newer kind oil or stick with the normal 10/40 ? I seem to remember warnings years ago about doing it

[fr1tz]

Hey charlesOliver I think you will find that on this subject technical spec's is one thing and personal opinion is another, one thing to remember is look for the oil rating on the back of the bottle theirs an area that looks like a sun burst within that sun burst you'll find the quality rating of that oil, it's like a time line the SG/SH/SJ class rating (auto) and the CE/CF are for diesel truck rating, what you need to look for is any oil newer than SJ has friction modifiers in it which MAY effect your clutch (only if it is a wet clutch). then you have anti foam additives which they do not advertise. but any way this is just the tip of this subject and now they (big oil) and rating associations have come up with a new rating proceedure for quality. so any way this story is long enough, just stick with a name brand and the recommended viscosity (10W40) for your ride. if you what to know more PM me - fr1tz

PS sorry I didn't address your specific qustion, 'yes' you can use syn blend or full syn just look for the SJ rating which is early 2000 rated oil if you can find it. you can not go wrong if you stay in the motorcycle section of any store - fr1tz

[redial]

Fritz was comprehensive in his response, but I would add one rider - expensive does not mean better. Look for the stuff that works, at the least cost. There is no need to go overboard and get the latest offering from Big Oil, as it will not improve anything except their profits.

[fr1tz]

Hey guy's I found a good piece on engine oil, It cot my eye because he uses the same oil that I use I believe everyone is formilure with Randakk products. Heres the address --

http://www.randakks.com/TechTip86.htm He spells it out like it is - fr1tz

PS titled "another reason to change your oil"

[wjnfirearms]

That was a really good article.Thanks, Fritz.

Oil brands and the difference between conventionals and synthetics has been controversial pretty much as long as they both have been around. I get many queries at the store from motorists wanting to do DIY oil changes. I'm not 100% convinced about the advantages of synthetics myself. There are some for sure, but for the considerable extra cost, I don't know. I also know that many of the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations to use synthetics are BS. I know of several people who have been told that by dealer service techs.

Here's a couple things that I do know, however.......

I used Amzoil back in 1982 in my 1980 Yamaha XS850 touring bike. I had no clutch issues and it did definately run cooler. Now, the formulation of the oil was very different back then, so I'd be careful using it now. They may not have added friction modifiers back in the early '80s. Synthetics do have a tendancy to carry heat better that conventionals.

As to conventionals, Consumer Reports did a comprehensive test on motor oils back in the late '90s. Castrol GTX came out way on top actually having the qualities that they advertised on television as to thermal breakdown and being a generally good oil. Now, this was for automotive oil, so any other type of conventional they make that may be of use to us I'd have to assume would be of the same quality.

If one has a leaky engine oil wise, synthetics can enhance the leaks especially if it is a seal issue. I've also heard of times that an engine wasn't leaking but was unknowingly on the edge of developing some and the switch to synthetic pushed it over the edge.

Synthetics do allow for extending oil change intervals with less break down.

Basically, ANY brand of oil will work just fine so long as it is rated for your particular type of vehicle and has the proper viscosity rating for both your vehicle and climate. Yes, climate does matter.

The paragraph about acids developing is very correct. This is one big reason why running a bike, or any internal combustion engine for that matter, with oil sitting in the sump for a very long time is a really bad idea. Think of it as self sabotaging your vehicle.

As to filters, stay away from Fram, even in your four wheeler. I know of way too many incidents of trashed engines attributed to failure of their filters. As to the spin on variety, which may or not pertain to our bikes, they use cardboard on both ends of the elements and they can and will collapse if the element fails. This completely blocks the filter and bypass starving the engine catastrophically. The other brands use either plastic or metal and these will not collapse under the same circumstances. I do know this set of facts to be completely true and not BS.

Other than in the XS, I've pretty much used conventionals in all of my bikes over the years without anything bad ever happening to the internals. I intend to continue to use conventionals in the GL 1000. In fact, I'm getting ready to do an oil change as the next step in the resto. Just have to pick up some oil. I'm definately considering the Rotella.

[fr1tz]

Hey wjnfirearms, your welcome - I can really get into lubes & fuels subject because I've been in that business for 32 years so I've heard a lot of stories espescially back in the 70's with the sluge oil like Quaker State for an example. one thing about it nothing stays the same in this business the changes in the past 20 years is tramendous but on the same hand the changes in the past 5 years has also been great OK i'am done - on to something else thanks fr1tz

[wjnfirearms]

The stigma about Quaker State is still going on, mainly because the alleged amount of paraffin in the crude they use. There's still plenty of people that steer away from it.

[fr1tz]

Hey wjnfirearms not so anymore since Shell purchased Quaker State that whole senario has changed But there are more companies that have large inventories of high pariffin reserves like Ashland, Sunoco,and Marathon & more but you know that stuff moves around so much who knows ? the bottom line is the products Quality spec's. thats why I use Shell Rotella products. fr1tz

PS I assume your into Guns I was checking out Springfields new XDS-45 I'll bet it hurts to shoot it. fr1tz

[cadendadd]

My mech told me and this is a honda dealer also. Because of the wet clutch he would never use synthetic oils

[bykerbiker]

Thanks alot I think I will stick to the standard oil. The only thing was whilst working on high pressure compressors which we had to strip and regularly , we switched to synthetic oil and this reduced the overhauls quite significantly .No carbon in synthetic so no build ups, have to say I've used synthetic in my car with good results I think tolerences are less in modern motors and older machines require a heavier oil.

[glassbebo]

I use the Honda synthetic in my wing with no problems, buy the oil from the dealer and filter from Walmart, run it about 5k miles before changing. no clutch problems or anything thus far. It is a little pricey but the piece of mind is priceless.

[fr1tz]

hey bykrbiker you can use full syn or syn blend as long as it is SJ/SL or lower quality rated, when you deside to buy your oil look at the sun burst on the back side what does it say ? remember to look for the SJ/SL API rating (American Petroleum institute also if you buy motorcycle oil it will have the jasco rating look for JASCO MA japaneze rating you can't go wrong and stick with the brand name products - fr1tz

[Viking]

This has been a very good thread. One thing I would like to interject here is "if anyone decides to make the move to full synthetics, please get a filter that will stand up to the extra time and use you may put on the oil" Synthetic specific filters are not easy to find tho, and so, I use Amsoil's. They are made by Donaldson, to the highest specification possible. They make them for just about every application also.

I have used pretty much every synthetic on the market (at least every one I could locate) at one time or another in one vehicle or another, and most of them performed as expected. There were some issues with upstart products, but they did not last in the marketplace anyway, so moot point. Mobil 1, Shell Rotella, Amsoil and Royal Purple were four of the best. With the Shell Rotella - I believe they have relabeled, and only the T6 is now 100% synthetic. With the Amsoil, as they make so many different applications, the new OE is not fully synthetic, so do not assume it is. Their specific 100% synthetics indicate it on the label. The biggest point I think that has been brought up during this thread is the JASO MA requirement. This is factual unless you are tearing the engine down every so often to clean clutch parts, as they do with race bikes.

Just my .02

[fr1tz]

Hey themainviking Yes I agree this is a good post, I didn't know about the oil specific filters, I sell Pennzoil filters which are Purolater filters (Pure oil) and I can't find in my catalog oil specific filters perhaps that is an Amsoil marketing strategy. but anyway as I mentioned before I use Rotella T triple protection 15W40 which is a Universal oil which covers everything needed on my GL1100 including JASO MA. the addive package for commercial vehicals gives it a high TBA rating (an oils ability to fight off acid buildup, again other oil companies products are just as good but I sell Shell, Pennzoil and Quaker State - fr1tz

[Viking]

Hey themainviking Yes I agree this is a good post, I didn't know about the oil specific filters, I sell Pennzoil filters which are Purolater filters (Pure oil) and I can't find in my catalog oil specific filters perhaps that is an Amsoil marketing strategy. but anyway as I mentioned before I use Rotella T triple protection 15W40 which is a Universal oil which covers everything needed on my GL1100 including JASO MA. the addive package for commercial vehicals gives it a high TBA rating (an oils ability to fight off acid buildup, again other oil companies products are just as good but I sell Shell, Pennzoil and Quaker State - fr1tz

Sorry, I mistyped that. There may not be such things as Oil Specific Filters, although to use synthetic oil, one should get a filter that has a finer filtering media. I am familiar with Amsoil's products, and their filters are of high enough quality (ergo: 5 micron) to use with synthetics, and they do market them as suitable for THEIR synthetics. What I meant to say was "get a filter that will filter fine enough and stand up for the duration". Purolator's Pure One is another such filter. The problem with filters that are not of very high quality is that they do NOT stand up for the full time the oil is in use. This was mentioned in a previous post. Most of the filters that a person could obtain from a dealership are of mid quality. Walmart carries low, middle and in a decent store, high quality, like Pure One. The problem with purchasing a filter made by one company, for another, is that one never knows the quality unless one disects a sample. Quaker state have branded filters, but they might be made by Fram today or by Purolator tomorrow, depending on contract, AND the filter made for them by Purolator will almost certainly not be of the quality of a Pure One branded filter from Purlolator. There are probably a hundred brands of filter on the market and I would hazard to say that maybe six to eight are of a really high quality. Mostly a high quality filter can be obtained from the actual manufacturer of the filters, such as Donaldson, Purolator, WIX, Baldwin etc. Sadly, although Fram could if they wished, it does not fall into this category. In addition, probably only the top one or two standards of filter from each manufacturer are of very high quality. The only manufacturer that I have personally had any contact with is Donaldson. Even they will make a poor quality filter if their customers specifications are low enough under contract.

[fr1tz]

hey themainviking "right on" ( how's the wheather up north ?) I do agree with your thoughts but one must know what they need first!! for an example my 82 asp has an OEM filter cartrage and I'am going to change to the Randakk spin-on adapter The filter that Randakk recommends is a PZ 21 filter I can get all the spec's an the filter like by-pass opening presure, micron filtration, innert material used but I can not find what Honda recommends!!!! I guess I will have to trust that Randakk did all the proper research. - fr1tz

[SteveB123]

My mech told me and this is a honda dealer also. Because of the wet clutch he would never use synthetic oils

Honda dealers have Honda-branded synthetic oil (HP4S) on the shelf.

[eeh]

Hi friends,
interesting post,
here's my experience:
I change oil myself on GL1500 SE every 8000 miles,
I use a full synthetic oil already added for motorcycles wet clutch,
which already used it on others bike with more extreme performance than the Goldwing.
It’s AGIP-ENI brand TEC 4T SAE 10W-40 API SJ, price for litre EUR 7-8 approx.
Bye, eeh

[fr1tz]

Hey eeh !! Keep doing what your doing and you will have no problems the key word in your post is the quality rating on your synthetic oil is API SJ its like a time line of quality for an example the API SJ was the highest quality available from 1997 thru 2001, here is a list of that time line which starts out in the API Automotive Gasoline Engine Service Categories as

SC 1964 thru 1968
SD 1968 thru 1972
SE 1972 thru 1980
SF 1980 thru 1989
SG 1989 thru 1994
SH 1994 thru 1997
SJ 1997 thru 2001
SL 2001

SA rating straight mineral oil
SB inhibited oil only

there are other lubricant testing and rating organizations out there

API American Petroleum Insitute
ASTM American Society for Testing and Materials
ILSAC International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee
Jaso Japan Automobile Standards Organization
SAE Society of Automotive Engineers

OK I'am finished Just want to know one thing "how much is 7-8 EUR's" fr1tz

PS Synthetic oil is no slicker or more slippery then petroleum products but does have other properties that out perform petroleum.

[eeh]

Hi Fr1tz,
many thanks for your specification,
in my label I can see also API SJ / ACEA A3 / JASO MA ( T903:2006)
This motoroil is specifically designed for motorcycles and sold exclusively for 4stroke engine wet cluch.
Sorry, I live in Italy inside European Union
and EUR is our currency money;
it's corresponding about to 9,30-10,50 USD for liter;
for your acquaintance our Petrol price is USD 2,40 for 1 liter .
Bye, eeh

[fr1tz]

hey guys I forgot to add ACEA which stands for Association des Constructeurs Europe'en del' Automobile - in the USA we refer to it as - Association of European Automotive Manufactures

fr1tz

[wjnfirearms]

Honda dealers have Honda-branded synthetic oil (HP4S) on the shelf.

Remember one very important thing. Just because some product is manufacturer branded does NOT mean that the manufacturer produced it. I go through this with people regarding car parts all of the time. Which ever company produced whatever item is branded Honda, Suzuki, Ford, whichever manufacturer you choose, also most likely makes their product for other labels. Oil products are no different. They may meet a specific spec, but that's about all. Most of the time, there is another product that meets the need, sometimes better. I sell a lot of Motorcraft oil to Ford truck owners because that was what Ford put in the trucks when new. Same with filters. Motorcraft does not make the product or the filters and there's plenty of other oils and filters that will work just as well if not better and not void any warranty or shorten engine life. Honda motorcycles, newer or older like mine, are no different. Stay away from Fram.

And Fritz....the XD45 is a very good weapon. I'm an FFL. Anything Springfield is a good choice.

[fr1tz]

Hey wjnfirearms - thanks for your input couldn't have said it any better than that, but anyway I agree with you 100% unless you do your home work who knows most people don't know that pennzoil & Quaker State is Shell !!!

PS I want to add to my collection of a Bersa 380 & my Ruger SRC 9mm to something more persuasive like the XD S45. fr1tz