Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by mweddy@gmail.com » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:18 pm



I'm going to add a couple of anecdotal notes to this thread. These are based on my own experience, and in no way am I encouraging you to accept these as facts. As an Aeronautical Engineer, I have studied fuel and oil chemistry extensively. (Mostly related to Aviation). I became a fan of synthetic lubricants a long long time ago. I currently use only synthetic lubricants in all of my vehicles. I have 8 registered and insured cars, trucks, and SUV's, and 11 registered and insured motorcycles, (5 street legal). I use synthetics in all of them. I use Mobil one in the cars, and I use Shell Rotella T6 in the bikes. Mobil One because I can get it at Costco when on sale, and the Shell because it is the least expensive full synthetic that is JASO MA certified for wet Clutches. I used Amsoil for many years in the motorcycles. If it were competitively priced, I would still use it. If you read the reports, it is the best stuff ever made. Unfortunately, the only reports available were sponsored by Amsoil. I can say this about a motorcycle I bought brand new, a 2002 Kawasaki Classic 1500 FI; I changed the oil at 1000 miles, and put Amsoil 10-40 motorcycle oil in it. I changed the oil and filter every 4000 miles as recommended by Kawasaki. It now has 77,000 miles on it. At 45,000 miles, I had an undetermined vibration that I thought might be in the clutch. I pulled it apart and found the diaphragm spring to be worn almost all the way through. This is a common failure with this engine, and so I replaced it. This wasn't the cause of my vibration, (drive shaft u-joint), but my point is that the part wore out at approximately the expected mileage if it had been exposed to regular oil all of its life. What I'm saying is, I don't think the Amsoil provided any extra protection for wear items in the engine. Does the Mobil One provide any extra protection? I don't know. Does the Shell Rotella T6 provide any extra protection? I don't know. I suppose the best justification I can provide is that I expect the synthetic to last a little longer and give me a little more time between oil changes.

On a different note, I also buy oil filters based on price and how they are rated. An article on eBay rated the top five oil filters. Can you believe anything you read on the internet? Anyway, two of the brands I buy are competitively priced and rated in the top five. Bosch and Purolator. I get the Bosch for my bikes, and Purolator for the cars and trucks. Without cutting them open and looking at the construction, it is extremely difficult to determine if you have a quality product. All you can do is evaluate the results others have published, and hope that it is valid.



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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by f1xrupr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:57 am

mweddy@gmail.com wrote:I'm going to add a couple of anecdotal notes to this thread. These are based on my own experience, and in no way am I encouraging you to accept these as facts. As an Aeronautical Engineer, I have studied fuel and oil chemistry extensively. (Mostly related to Aviation). I became a fan of synthetic lubricants a long long time ago. I currently use only synthetic lubricants in all of my vehicles. I have 8 registered and insured cars, trucks, and SUV's, and 11 registered and insured motorcycles, (5 street legal). I use synthetics in all of them. I use Mobil one in the cars, and I use Shell Rotella T6 in the bikes. Mobil One because I can get it at Costco when on sale, and the Shell because it is the least expensive full synthetic that is JASO MA certified for wet Clutches. I used Amsoil for many years in the motorcycles. If it were competitively priced, I would still use it. If you read the reports, it is the best stuff ever made. Unfortunately, the only reports available were sponsored by Amsoil. I can say this about a motorcycle I bought brand new, a 2002 Kawasaki Classic 1500 FI; I changed the oil at 1000 miles, and put Amsoil 10-40 motorcycle oil in it. I changed the oil and filter every 4000 miles as recommended by Kawasaki. It now has 77,000 miles on it. At 45,000 miles, I had an undetermined vibration that I thought might be in the clutch. I pulled it apart and found the diaphragm spring to be worn almost all the way through. This is a common failure with this engine, and so I replaced it. This wasn't the cause of my vibration, (drive shaft u-joint), but my point is that the part wore out at approximately the expected mileage if it had been exposed to regular oil all of its life. What I'm saying is, I don't think the Amsoil provided any extra protection for wear items in the engine. Does the Mobil One provide any extra protection? I don't know. Does the Shell Rotella T6 provide any extra protection? I don't know. I suppose the best justification I can provide is that I expect the synthetic to last a little longer and give me a little more time between oil changes.

On a different note, I also buy oil filters based on price and how they are rated. An article on eBay rated the top five oil filters. Can you believe anything you read on the internet? Anyway, two of the brands I buy are competitively priced and rated in the top five. Bosch and Purolator. I get the Bosch for my bikes, and Purolator for the cars and trucks. Without cutting them open and looking at the construction, it is extremely difficult to determine if you have a quality product. All you can do is evaluate the results others have published, and hope that it is valid.
Interesting indeed-experience is the best teacher!
After studying Wingadmin's comments and links, and considering I am using fram on my bike and my wife's car, I reconsidered, and ordered a Bosch for my bike (3330 screw on-I have an adapter), and, I have a purolator (I think) that fits my wife's car. Weather you are correct or not, I found reaffirmation in my choices of oil filters after reading your post....hope I said that right.
Furthermore, I found your "conclusion?" particularly interesting about the Amsoil.
I'm using Royal Purple 15-40 (desiel oil) in my 1100 GW, in an attempt to give that old neggleglected and abused thing the best I know-hope it works!
.....by the way-you might be about 1bike and 2 cars away from being a dealership.....ha ha....
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:06 am

The filters I have used for years are NAPA Gold - I use them in all my cars, and did for years on my GL1100 as well. On my GL1500 and my wife's PC800 I use OEM Honda, because the local NAPA rarely has the equivalent filter in stock, and Cyclemax (which is only a few miles away from me) has them in stock at a great price.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by Nealschoen » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:02 am

Well I am finally posting my first reply! Merry Christmas!
I read through this whole conversation and still don't know how much Seafoam to add to my oil before I change the oil on my new to me 1980 GL1100 Interstate. Had to wipe the frost off the seat last night before riding home after Christmas dinner here in Niagara so I think this week will be my first and last week of riding it until spring.

Oil filter and fork seals are on order so I can start bringing my $640 find back to life. The carbs were shot. JB welded pieces, leaks and no go so I picked up a used carb set for $100 and after cleaning and installing, it runs! Thanks for the great site! Now that I know it will actually run I will do all the work recommended here. Shocks, forks, belts, brakes, fluids, tires etc. Not a mechanic but with your how-to's I can't go wrong.

Again. How much Seafoam in the oil before I ride it a hundred km and change the oil?

Neal

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by f1xrupr » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:03 am

If you search this site using keyword "seafoam", you may find all sorts of opinions as to "how much?", including mine (which is "none" by the way). That may be one of those questions to be answered by "ones self", peradventure the engine locks up, it's your huckleburry. One might say, "alildabeldoya". One might assume that-the more you put in, the thinner your oil is.....or, one might say-"half a can"! More than likely one might say, "I do so and so....".
No one knows exactly how much seafoam your engine can take, or, the results.....trial and era tells the tale.
If it were me, if it's never been done before to that engine, and if the engine runs good and has no issues, I would'nt do it....if that engine is full of crud, and you break it loose, you may be asking for trouble. I'm not saying this is why but, I put kerosene in my 1980 that had been sitting for six years and neglected before that, and after riding it for about 20 miles" rods were knocking, and I had to rebuild the crankshaft, and I never started the engine with the kerosene in there. After you remove the solvent, the Crud continues to break loose, .cloggs your oil filter cartridge, and then, your by-pass value opens, and pumps that crud straight to your bearings, and shows good oil pressure all the while....that's not hear say-that happened to me. If there is a way to read my reply history, it will verify what I'm saying. Now, it may be a good thing for some, but so is heart surgery.
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by mweddy@gmail.com » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:43 am

Here are my thoughts on adding anything to the oil. If the oil has been changed regularly, and there is no buildup of sludge, then adding cleaners like Sea Foam is unnecessary. If the oil has not been changed regularly, and there is a buildup of sludge, cleaning it too quickly by adding Sea Foam could cause sludge to overwhelm the oil filter, bypass, and clog up oil passages. The recommended method for cleaning abused and poorly maintained engines is to use a good high detergent oil and change it and the filter often until the system is clean. Some techs like to add 25% automatic transmission fluid as a high detergent oil to help clean up the engine. Several years ago I rescued a Saturn that was on it's way to be crushed. It had been abused for years and the oil was thick and black. I changed the oil and filter four times in 2000 miles, got it reasonably cleaned up and then switched to Mobil one. (this was recommended in a GM service bulletin for Saturns with oil consumption problems). The oil consumption went from a quart every 400 miles to a quart in 1500 miles. The actual answer to your question in my opinion is to not add any Sea Foam to the oil. However, that is just my opinion and I'm sure that many would disagree.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by f1xrupr » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:51 am

mweddy@gmail.com wrote:Here are my thoughts on adding anything to the oil. If the oil has been changed regularly, and there is no buildup of sludge, then adding cleaners like Sea Foam is unnecessary. If the oil has not been changed regularly, and there is a buildup of sludge, cleaning it too quickly by adding Sea Foam could cause sludge to overwhelm the oil filter, bypass, and clog up oil passages. The recommended method for cleaning abused and poorly maintained engines is to use a good high detergent oil and change it and the filter often until the system is clean. Some techs like to add 25% automatic transmission fluid as a high detergent oil to help clean up the engine. Several years ago I rescued a Saturn that was on it's way to be crushed. It had been abused for years and the oil was thick and black. I changed the oil and filter four times in 2000 miles, got it reasonably cleaned up and then switched to Mobil one. (this was recommended in a GM service bulletin for Saturns with oil consumption problems). The oil consumption went from a quart every 400 miles to a quart in 1500 miles. The actual answer to your question in my opinion is to not add any Sea Foam to the oil. However, that is just my opinion and I'm sure that many would disagree.
......vary well said...
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by Rednaxs60 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:32 pm

Just a thought from an economical Canadian. Did an engine oil flush the other day with Canadian Tire brand motorcycle mineral oil. Cost per litre $7.84 taxes in. Drained and put in Rotella T6 sysnthetic 5W40, 5 litre bottle - $10.60 per litre. The '85 1200 needs 3.2 litres per oil/filter change. The extra cost per litre is worth it to me. This T6 synthetic is less than Amsoil that retails at $15.00 a litre. Do intend to do oil changes at 5K Kms. Hoping to see the T6 on sale, then will load up with a few bottles. Cheers

Ernest
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by Nealschoen » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:53 pm

Thanks. I think I have been talked out of seafoam in the oil. It has done wonders for my carbs, cars snow blower and generator though!

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by wingman12 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:00 pm

You do not run seafoam in your oil except for about a 100 mile easy cruise and then change your filter and oil. The seafoam is an exceptional cleaner. I run full synthetic oil so I rarely have the need to use seafoam to rinse the engine. :D :D

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by mweddy@gmail.com » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:53 pm

Ernest:
Not sure if Amazon.com ships for free to Canada, but if I buy $35 worth of stuff, they give me free shipping and the Shell Rotella T6 synthetic was about $18 gallon the last time I bought it. I just checked and it is $21.36 today.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:22 pm

mweddy@gmail.com wrote:Ernest:
Not sure if Amazon.com ships for free to Canada, but if I buy $35 worth of stuff, they give me free shipping and the Shell Rotella T6 synthetic was about $18 gallon the last time I bought it. I just checked and it is $21.36 today.
No such thing as a free lunch here in the north. With the exchange rate that I would have to use and pay, the cost of $22.00 USD to me would be $30.00. We are supposed to have no duty on items from the US; however, it is hit and miss with our customs folks. To top it off there would probably be a delivery charge. Son-in-law ordered oil from Texas for his Motto Guzzi California Touring and by the time it was said and done he paid north of $20.00 per quart.

Have to be diligent and keep an eye on what is available here. Not the best situation, but the reality of our living here.

Cheers

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by insanemoondoggie » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:20 pm

I switch my Nomad over to Amsoil 2 years ago, first thing I notice was the cooling fan ran much less often and the engine ran cooler. That was enough to convince me it was some good stuff. I have 5 bikes and now use it in all of them.
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by whoknowswhy » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:34 pm

I was wondering if you see any problem with running Valvoline racing straight 50 weight, i have run it in my 750 honda and my 83 1100i goldwing i like the noise canceling the heavy oil does and no problem with the starter or clutch, only run this in summer, snow to deep in winter to ride.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by redial » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:58 am

I would not be running straight 50 weight oil in mine. The thing about racing bikes is they never go out cold, and they usually make the engine work at higher revs = higher temps. Normal riding, would mean that you are not riding it around in 1st gear at redline, just to get it warm/hot enough.

What do you call summer? Here it can get above 45C (about 115F), and my Penrite brand oil keeps going. It even works well when the temp gets down around 0C (about 32F), but we dont get many of these in my neck of the woods (it would spoil the grape harvest for the wines that are prolific here).

If you have too much noise coming from your engine, I would be looking at the cause, rather than trying to hide it with thicker oil.
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by insanemoondoggie » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:12 am

I used 50w oil in my old Shovel head trying to slow some of the oil leaks. :roll:
Bearing clearance's have been reduced over the years as machine processes and lubricants have greatly improved. I would be concerned running 50w oil in newer machines. Even in 60 degree weather, cold starts have to be hard on the oil pump till it reaches operating temps.
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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by mweddy@gmail.com » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:07 am

whoknowswhy wrote:I was wondering if you see any problem with running Valvoline racing straight 50 weight, i have run it in my 750 honda and my 83 1100i goldwing i like the noise canceling the heavy oil does and no problem with the starter or clutch, only run this in summer, snow to deep in winter to ride.
The only engines I know of calling for straight 50 weight are old air cooled aircraft piston engines. Even old air cooled VW engines that originally called for straight 30 weight oil do better with 20/50.

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Re: Shell oil/Seafoam/Wet Clutch

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:14 am

My son in-law's Motto Guzi California Touring 1400 cc calls fo 60 wt engine oil. Has a dry clutch and requires a separate oil for the gear case and FD. To change the FD oil you have to take off the rear wheel to get at the FD oil fill.

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