oil

[donnielama]

I have a 2008 1800 Goldwing.
I was told by a mechanic that I could use synthetic oil and get twice the miles before having to change the oil. Is that true? What about the filter?
Is there a difference between synthetic oil used in cars and bikes? The bike shop charges $12/quart and Wal-Mart auto synthetic oil about $6?

[WingAdmin]

I have a 2008 1800 Goldwing.
I was told by a mechanic that I could use synthetic oil and get twice the miles before having to change the oil. Is that true? What about the filter?
Is there a difference between synthetic oil used in cars and bikes? The bike shop charges $12/quart and Wal-Mart auto synthetic oil about $6?

Automotive oil typically has friction modifiers, that causes trouble for wet motorcycle clutches, which depend on friction in order to function. While in automotive applications synthetic oils can last longer, in motorcycle applications, where the engine oil is also being used as the transmission lubricant, the constant shearing forces of the transmission gears exerted on the oil causes the oil molecules to break down much faster than when used in an auto engine. The main benefit of a synthetic is its consistency in viscosity - particularly when it is cold. It offers much more lubrication to the engine when cold than conventional oil.

As for twice the miles? Not me. I use synthetic oil in my bike, but I change mine every 3000 to 4000 miles, along with the filter.

[donnielama]

Thanks for the input. When you say synthetic gives better protection when cold I'm assuming when the engine is cold. I live in Florida where I can ride almost everyday.

[WingAdmin]

Thanks for the input. When you say synthetic gives better protection when cold I'm assuming when the engine is cold. I live in Florida where I can ride almost everyday.

Right. Synthetic is engineered to be thinner and less viscous at colder (compared to engine operating temperatures) temps compared to conventional oil, so it can more easily and quickly get to critical parts of the engine at startup and begin lubricating faster.

[redial]

When you say synthetic gives better protection when cold I'm assuming when the engine is cold.

A "cold" engine is one that is not at its normal operating temperature. It does not have much to do with the air temperature, except in the north of your country it is colder, and therefore your engine may take longer to get to normal operating temperature. With you being in FL, your normal operating temperature would be reached quicker than those in the north.

[k1w1t1m]

You also need to consider that Goldwings have wet clutches. Any particles that come off them end up in the engine oil. That's another good reason for regular oil and filter changes.

[slbarnesjr]

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
I provided the link so you can read about oils for yourself. The question of which oil is right has been asked more times than anyone can count and the responses are equally varied. Perhaps the more comfortable response would be to always follow the manufacturer's guidance. However, there are other options that could possibly provide a better source. Personally I use Shell Rotella T6 15W-40 synthetic with a Purolator filter that is an inch longer than stock in my GL1800 and usually change it every 5-6,000 miles with no problems. I am of the mind that my engine runs smoother with this oil, but that is my opinion. I have read where other riders say they have 300,000 miles on their Wings using this oil and have experienced no problems. That's my input.

[HawkeyeGL1200]

All very good answers....

Here's my 2 cents worth: There is NO WAY to know how long you can run ANY oil in the crankcase of ANY internal combustion engine (whether it is a "shared" lubrication source for the transmission or not) unless you have your oil analyzed for contaminants, remaining additives and lubrication properties after some point in time of use.

One common misconception about oil is that if it "looks" dirty, it isn't working properly any more.

Case in point. The place I work has a machine that the manufacturer recommended changing oil in every 6 months (what if it doesn't run during that time period LOL), and the company I work for did so religiously. This machine uses 55-60 gallons of oil for an oil change. "We" petitioned our engineering department to allow a sample to be taken a couple of weeks before the scheduled oil change to have it sent to a LAB for analysis to determine if the oil change was necessary... well, we've extended the life of the oil in that machine to as much as 5 years between changes... I'm not talking running "marginal" oil in it either... it runs with a synthetic oil that is designed for the application. But, if we strictly followed the manufacturer recommended OCI (Oil Change Interval) we would have wasted a couple of thousand gallons of oil over the past five years... in ONE of these machines.. and we have 6 of them...

Synthetic oil is a curious beast to me. I think I really like it... I'm not exactly sure what it is, however, and some sellers of oil may be labeling containers of oil with some stuff that might have some synthetic qualities, but the definition of what synthetic means is kind of vague.

To me, the best reasons to use synthetics are:
1) They "tend" to keep the inside of whatever they're put in CLEANER because they do not tend to varnish the interior of a machine, perhaps in part because they tend to be able to withstand higher base temperatures than their petroleum counterparts... and partly because cleaning additives in them.
2) Superior Lubrication, See #1, the ability to lubricate at higher temperature without failing due to "thermal breakdown"... The primary purpose of oil is the removal of heat. If an oil can do this at higher temperatures without cooking, it has my vote.
3) Possibility of extended time between oil changes. Some machines are difficult to take out of service for maintenance... others, not so much.. and if extending the miles or hours between OCI is important to a person, synthetics seem to have an advantage in this department.

No one can tell you how many miles an oil will run in any given application without testing THAT application. Internal combustion engines vary and things like ring blow by, poor carburetion (gas in the oil), the type and efficiency of the filter (particulate contamination removal), all play into how long an oil will last in a given application. The truth, I believe, is... Most of us who do periodic maintenance on our motorcycles are probably throwing a lot of perfectly good oil in the waste oil barrel. When you consider I'm running an engine oil that is marketed as a 300,000 mile oil in over-the-road tractor trailers... and I'm draining it at 2500-3000 miles, there's probably a LOT of life left in that oil when I pour it into the drum... The problem is, it cost MORE to get it analyzed than it does for me to change it... so why not just change it and move on...

Of course, I'm paying $12.50 a gallon for oil, so a complete oil change for me costs less than two quarts of most brands of synthetic oil.

I don't know how difficult it is to change the oil in your bike. I have to put mine on the center stand, put a container under the drain plug, drain, change the filter and seals, put the plug back in, fill the crankcase and dump the waste oil.. and I'm pretty much done in 15 minutes. If I had to take off a bunch of "stuff" (tupperware, I think they call it) and it took me an hour or moer to do an oil change or I was paying someone else 100$ an hour to change my oil... I'd be tempted to tell them to go ahead and put the (Non-energy conserving) synthetic in the crankcase, and then the first time I had it changed, I'd send off a sample to see how well it performed at "twice" the normal interval... and I'd be willing to bet the oil is perfectly fine even at that amount of time on it...

[WingAdmin]

I agree, the "tupperware" factor does come into it - but even on the GL1500, removal and replacement of plastic in order to gain access to the oil fill and dipstick adds maybe five minutes to the process. I have more of an issue that you can't easily check the oil on the dipstick without removing plastic - which encourages people to simply not check their oil.

When it comes down to it, are you willing to extend your oil life to save an extra $15 on your $20,000+ motorcycle? As you said, lab analysis costs more than an oil change, so changing your oil more frequently seems to make sense.

In aircraft engines, oil is normally sent for lab analysis virtually every time, because it can give early warning indications about problems that could cause engine failure in flight. That is less of a concern in our rock-solid reliable Honda engines.

[MikeB]

I have a 2008 1800 Goldwing.
I was told by a mechanic that I could use synthetic oil and get twice the miles before having to change the oil. Is that true? What about the filter?
Is there a difference between synthetic oil used in cars and bikes? The bike shop charges $12/quart and Wal-Mart auto synthetic oil about $6?

You didn't say at point you are changing your oil now. The 2003 Owners manual specifies an interval of 8000 miles between changes after the initial change at the 4000 mile mark. I suspect that the 2008 manual is the same. I don't know anyone that goes that long on the recommended engine oil. But I think I would be comfortable leaving synthetic oil in for the Owner's Manual specified amount of time.

The recommended oil specs in the owners manual is:

The recommended interval for oil change is:

So, if you are changing your oil at 3000 to 4000 miles like most seem to think is the proper duration, then youe mechanic is probably correct.

[moneypit]

Mobil 1 is awesome oil 10w40 r4t is made for bikes they also have a 20w50 ..

[redial]

Mobil 1 is awesome oil 10w40 r4t is made for bikes

It is a shame that Moobil has sold all of their outlets to 7/11 Franchises in Oz. I know of only two outlets that display Moobil on the outside of their station.

A couple of other items, as the oil is designated R4T (which is for racing bikes), how does that apply to road bikes?

and,
What price is the oil per litre or gallon? (Is there a price penalty for using racing oil?)

It does not appear to be available in Oz, but then I have not begun to look for it, as I am very happy with my Penrite flavours.

On reading the Product Data Sheet for this oil, the following item is of concern until I can be shown that it will not affect the operation of the wet clutch:

Optimised frictional properties Consistent power due to reduced frictional losses
Overall optimized balance of engine performance and fuel economy

[moneypit]

redial: it not just for racing app. its there oil designed for trans and wet clutch.. in the U S 10 $ a quart...