Stator Information

[Solina Dave]

Just a little bit of information that I received from ElectroSport Industries, in regard to questions I asked about their stators, that I thought I'd pass on to anyone interested. For what it's worth, I received my reply from ElectroSport in less than 10 minutes.
I asked questions about certain points presented by the supplier, Canada's Motorcycle/FortNine, in their description of a stator part #ESG060 that I'm considering for my '78 GL1000.

Supplier description
Twice-baked epoxy finish for increased conductivity.
Dual-sheathed wiring for reliability and increased performance.
Computer-controlled stator winding and use of thicker materials results in higher output than OEM units.
20% greater output than O.E.M. stator.
Triple insulated for maximum reliability.

My questions
Most stators that I'm seeing, from most other suppliers, don't have the epoxy finish coating. What performance advantage does the epoxy coating offer, and how does it achieve that advantage over the others? It looks like a good idea, but if it is a good idea, why don't I see it more often?

Explain "dual-sheathed wiring".

How does thicker stator wiring result in higher output?

What is "triple insulated for maximum reliability", why is it better, and does it vary significantly from industry standards?

ElectroSport's reply
Not all stators have an epoxy coating but most do. It acts as a cement to hold the coils in place and prevent vibration from rattling them.

The wiring has a different type of insulation on the pigtail than others. You could have wires with silicon insulation, or rubber, or plastic. Different materials that have advantages in for different jobs. The insulation we use is fairly hard and rigid, which is good because the wires will inevitably get hot and the insulation must not become too soft.

Thicker wiring does not yield higher output alone. But when the right thickness wire is used with a correctly sized core, number of turns on each post, and winding configuration the wire thickness will contribute toward having a stator with more desirable output. But on its own thicker wire is not always better.

More layers of insulation means less likely to have shorts. One layer of insulation would work, but after a period of time and that layer begins to crack the stator would have shorts. So more layers just means longer life.

I hope this information will be helpful.................................Dave

[chrisz]

Good info thanks Dave. So your '78 is finally need of a replacement, the factory stator appeared to do its job for quite a long time. Let us know how the new stator compares, (in 30 years or so)

[Solina Dave]

Good info thanks Dave. So your '78 is finally need of a replacement, the factory stator appeared to do its job for quite a long time. Let us know how the new stator compares, (in 30 years or so)

You're welcome Chrisz ("the eternal optimist"). I'll get back to you.

[wing rider 2012]

Dave, I'm wondering how they achieve a computer controlled stator winding, I'm scratching my head on this one. Typically the stator winding will have a max fixed output depending on how many windings there are on each post, and seeings how the field is being generated by the permanent magnets, there is no way to control the field and therefore no way to control the stator output. Now if they are saying that the regulator/rectifier uses an internal computer controlled system then that's another story all together. Maybe someone else on this forum will be able to enlighten me as to what a computer controlled stator is and how it works.

[Solina Dave]

Dave, I'm wondering how they achieve a computer controlled stator winding, I'm scratching my head on this one. Typically the stator winding will have a max fixed output depending on how many windings there are on each post, and seeings how the field is being generated by the permanent magnets, there is no way to control the field and therefore no way to control the stator output. Now if they are saying that the regulator/rectifier uses an internal computer controlled system then that's another story all together. Maybe someone else on this forum will be able to enlighten me as to what a computer controlled stator is and how it works.

Good point. I can't answer that. Maybe they can tell what they mean.
Being the eternal skeptic that I am, I'm thinking that maybe it's simply a play on words to give the ad a little bit of spice. Maybe, in reality, they only used a computer to determine how many winding wraps would be needed to achieve the higher output they desired. But I might be wrong.

Just a thought.........................Dave

[WingAdmin]

I think they mean the machine that winds them (i.e. winds the wire around the stator) is computer controlled.

I don't know, there seems to be an awful lot of jumble-speak in that description.

[Solina Dave]

I think they mean the machine that winds them (i.e. winds the wire around the stator) is computer controlled.

I don't know, there seems to be an awful lot of jumble-speak in that description.

You might be quite right about the computer controlling the winding process. That sounds as good as anything I'm seeing.
I'm glad I've got the whole winter to try and sift through all this "jumble-speak" that I'm being bombarded with from nearly every source. Sometimes a little bit of information can be worse than no information, especially if it's misinformation.
I expect a very high level of integrity from all the well established suppliers, but my skepticism is growing. I'm not interested in warranty. What good would that be? Unless of course they'll come to my house, remove my engine, replace the defective stator, and re-install my engine. I just want a stator that's not going to fail for 39 years, like the one I've got. Removing and re-installing engines is expensive!
Like I said before, from what appears to me, to be the top 3.............ElectroSport and Randakk have virtually identical write-ups, but the stators look different. It just seems like some generic description from multiple (probably Asian) sources. Maybe that part's irrelevant, since my whole motorcycle was made in Japan. And Rick's Motorsport Electrics give practically no technical information on their site at all, in the write-up for the stator I'd be interested in. I guess they just want me to blindly take their word for it............................Don't get me going!!

That's it, I'm done!...............................Dave

[Solina Dave]

That's it, I'm done!...............................Dave

Sorry! Maybe I'm not quite done yet.

I contacted ElectroSport again, and cut right to the chase. I asked them to convince me that I should buy their stator, and not one from Rick's or Randakk's.
I was told that they didn't want to say anything negative about the other supplier's units, and that,"we can only speak with certainty about our own parts and we do not want to say anything negative about their units. We would recommend you ask Randakk's and RIck's their answer to this question: Who makes your parts?"
And also they said, "Our answer here is simple, we make our parts. We are the manufacturer. We own the inventory, the tooling, the machine, the facility, and also pay for the labor where the parts are manufactured, they are our employees. Its all ours. With that comes a higher level of control, and more motivation to make correct parts. The other companies don't do that. They have companies make stators for them, which they purchase and then resell. Its their brand and their stator, but they did not make it, at least not in the same sense as how we make our stators.
The difference between our parts is quality. We cannot show you quality easily through email. I think it is easier to show how quality is achieved, and there is a significant advantage to making your own mass produced parts in a facility under your own control."

So there you have it. More fuel for the fire. Any comment?........................Dave

[dingdong]

Dave, I just googled Electrosport stator reviews. There are a number of negative reviews out there. From lots of different bike models. Most are somewhat old but they are out there. One guy says he went through 6 units under warranty before he tried something else. I didn't take the time with the other two but you might look for reviews on google.

[Solina Dave]

Dave, I just googled Electrosport stator reviews. There are a number of negative reviews out there. From lots of different bike models. Most are somewhat old but they are out there. One guy says he went through 6 units under warranty before he tried something else. I didn't take the time with the other two but you might look for reviews on google.

Thanks Tom. I'll do that. But I think that it's looking more and more like a crapshoot by the minute. It would be nice if one could obtain an unbiased review, that would present a failure to success rate for stators, based on sales, for a half-dozen or so different suppliers. Good luck. Right? If I knew that one supplier sold 500 stators, and 50 of them, or 10%, failed, and another supplier sold 200 stators, but only 2%, or 4 stators failed, it wouldn't take me very long to pick one.

[robb]

I have dealt with Electrosport many times and always have a good outcome. They do sell a quality product and stand behind it. Only sent 1 of about 20 back and it proved to be good, was only a damaged pin in plug, not the stator. They did repair and send back to me. Number one thing to remember is that with a larger output stator there has to be a larger amp regulator. Half a system will only lead to an unhappy customer.

[Solina Dave]

I have dealt with Electrosport many times and always have a good outcome. They do sell a quality product and stand behind it. Only sent 1 of about 20 back and it proved to be good, was only a damaged pin in plug, not the stator. They did repair and send back to me. Number one thing to remember is that with a larger output stator there has to be a larger amp regulator. Half a system will only lead to an unhappy customer.

Thanks for that Robb. It sounds like you're in the business, and probably bench test the stators as you receive them. I can see doing that myself. And that's also a good point I'll have to consider, about a suitable regulator.
But what I'm interested in is longevity. I want, and need, a stator that's constructed, in a competent manner using premium components, that's going to afford it a very good chance to survive in the long-run. At least approaching the life span of my original. This would be so I'd stand a greater chance of success in avoiding the high cost, and general pain in the ass, of engine removal and re-installation. I'm simply not set up, living in an apartment, and storing my bike out in the shed, to carry out major work. I do have a very good tech., at a very good price, but there's always a financial limit.
All of these stators that I'm seeing look virtually the same, regardless of supplier. Not that I'm likely to do it, but I could get a brand new one on Ebay for $66 Cdn. and free shipping, that looks just like all the rest, including those in the $200+ range.

Maybe there is no definitive answer....................Dave

[dingdong]

I think I would be inclined to purchase one with a warranty. I understand a no warranty policy with electrical components. So since Electrosport offers one........

[Solina Dave]

I think I would be inclined to purchase one with a warranty. I understand a no warranty policy with electrical components. So since Electrosport offers one........

I agree Tom, and I probably would purchase one with a warranty. But the value of having the warranty is only relevant if you discover a defective stator before installation. Bad continuity readings, a broken wire in a pigtail, or whatever.
I still want to know how the damn things made, what it's made out of, who made it, and how competent they are, so I stand a better chance of avoiding an early failure in the stator's life, and a very expensive repair job to follow. And besides, after a failure like that, am I going to want another one of there piece of crap stators?
Maybe after the stator's failure, they could offer to come right to my house and repair my motorcycle under warranty.
Come on everybody. How do you make a decision as to which major item, of this sort, you'll purchase. I mean it's a little more significant than purchasing a light bulb that you can simply trash if it doesn't light up, and go and buy another one.

[wing rider 2012]

Dave, at some point your just going to have to "bite the bullet" and pick the one that you feel is the best buy and hope for the best. I can understand the concern in replacing the stator in your GL1000, it's not an easy job to do. It's time like these that make one wish they had a twin V.

[Solina Dave]

Dave, at some point your just going to have to "bite the bullet" and pick the one that you feel is the best buy and hope for the best.I can understand the concern in replacing the stator in your GL1000, it's not an easy job to do. It's time like these that make one wish they had a twin V.

I know you're right wing rider. I'll just have to "bite the bullet", and hope for the best. It won't be the first time. I bought this '78 GL new, and it's cost me a fortune through the years to keep the love affair alive. That's all it is with me. I think I might have grown attached.
And as far as wishing I had something else, I don't think so. What would I do if I got rid of it? I wouldn't have anything to whine about!
I hope you're still getting some good riding, out there in beautiful Oregon. Winter's getting close over here.......................Dave

[wing rider 2012]

Dave, we had a nice day yesterday, no rain, so I did take the bike and the grand daughter for a ride. We rode up to Applegate Lake, it's about an hour ride from the house, all the leaves are turning, my grand daughter, who is 10, said it looks like some took a paint brush to the mountains and painted them with reds and yellows. We get a few days during the fall and winter months to where we can ride and I try and take advantage of those days. Has the snow showed up yet in your piece of the world???? Good luck on your stator replacement.

[Solina Dave]

Dave, we had a nice day yesterday, no rain, so I did take the bike and the grand daughter for a ride. We rode up to Applegate Lake, it's about an hour ride from the house, all the leaves are turning, my grand daughter, who is 10, said it looks like someone took a paint brush to the mountains and painted them with reds and yellows.

I'm glad you had a good ride with your granddaughter. Sometimes you need the eyes of a child to tell you how things really look. And I think we all know who held the paint brush.
No snow here, yet. It's actually fairly mild today. Saw a few bikes down at the coffee shop. A couple of days ago it was cold, and windy, and freezing rain that stayed white on the ground for a couple of hours and then melted. Just a little reminder of what's coming.
Thanks again for your advice. Ride safe, and pay attention to your little passenger. ............................Dave

[Solina Dave]

Dave, at some point your just going to have to "bite the bullet" and pick the one that you feel is the best buy and hope for the best.

Hi again,

The weather up here in "The Great White North" has been leading me to believe that spring is just around the corner. PTL!!! So it's time to get serious again about repairing my broken Goldwing. And just in case you're wondering why I'm continuing to rag on about stators and regulator/rectifiers, it's because I've been in hibernation and just haven't felt the compulsion lately. But now I'm back, and I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that I've made my decision to "bite the bullet", as wing rider so aptly put it.
My problem from the start of this exercise was varying degrees of information being passed on to me, about products being sold. Just to show you the difference, and what I was having trouble dealing with, I'm drawing you a comparison below.
This is a description, regarding a stator, from Electrosport. Quote:

"ESG060 is a heavy duty high quality stator that replaces the OEM stator in the Honda Goldwing 1000, 1100 and 1200 (non-fuel injected) models.
Our ESG060 was designed with a new type of stator core that offers very low magnetic resistance. We incorporated copper winding wire of the highest temperature rating and we changed the winding configuration compared to stock somewhat offering about 20% more output while generating less heat in the stator winding.
ESG060 incorporates a built in aluminum through-grommet and we use high temperature oil-and abrasion resistant lead wires and offers superior performance and reliability compared to the OEM Honda stator.
Like all stators manufactured by ElectroSport this ESG060 stator is offered with a full one year warranty.
Tested Power Output: 350W @ 4000RPM*
*The actual power output varies depending on the configuration and condition of the charging system. Actual performance is typically within +/- 5% of this value."

And this is a description, regarding a stator, from Rick's Motosports. Quote:

"New OEM Style Honda Stator: Made in the USA using only the best magnet wire available (protected up to 200 degrees celsius). *When installing this stator be careful not to pinch the wires; this will cause the stator to fail & will not be covered under warranty."

I find it extremely difficult to comparison shop, when there's nothing to compare. In the end, I based my final decision on customer feedback review comments issued buy Canada's Motorcycle (Fortnine), a distributor for both company's.
Being in the market for a stator and a regulator/rectifier, the review numbers went respectively as follows: Electrsport stator, an avg. 4.2/5, and reg./rect. 3.4/5. Rick's stator had an avg. of 4.4/5, and reg./rect. 4.7/5. So even though Rick's product description was minimal compared to Electrosports description, I "bit the bullet", and went with Rick. What else can you do? Anybody know?

That's it, you'll be happy to know, I'm done!!............................Dave

[Rednaxs60]

Dave - glad you made a decision and took the decision. With all issues, we eventually have to make up our own mind and go with it. Good luck, riding season is just around the corner for you lucky folks in Ontario. I'll be heading home to Larder Lake - 190 Kms north of North Bay for my Mom's 85th around 7 Mar. Not looking forward to the cold. Looking forward to seeing my second LTD though, and Mom of course.

Cheers

[Solina Dave]

Wish your mom a happy birthday for me. Funny you should mention Mar.7th. That's the day i go in for cataract surgery. They tell me I need to have it done, but I really can't see it myself.
You're right, there's a good chance it'll be a lot colder way up there. That'll give you a good excuse to pour one, and curl up on the couch, maybe in front of a fireplace.

Be good....................Dave

[Rednaxs60]

Other than Mom's birthday, probably be in my brother's garage going over my '85 LTD I have there to determine what is the bare minimum needed to get the bike safely on the road and out here. Mom will understand.

Cheers