Vibration at certain speed

[johnny42]

I recently mounted and installed new Dunlop Elite 4 tires (myself) and flushed and replaced the fork oil with ATF. Lubed the spines, etc. I have balance beads in both tires. I've ridden maybe 200 miles since. I notice a front vibration at around 37 mph. The sensation feels like riding over a rough road surface (like, say, an orange peel) vs. smooth glass. It starts when I get above 30 mph, peaks around 37, then disappears over 40 mph. The bars don't shimmy, and it's not the engine. There's no sound either. It's not severe but really noticeable, and I've never felt this kind of vibration on any bike I've owned over the past 45 years.

I checked for wheel bearing play when I had the front wheel off and felt nothing.

It's more of a buzz feeling than a tingle.

Looking for ideas on how to troubleshoot this starting with what might be a likely cause. Also, might the specific speed at which this is happening point to anything?

My Wing was so smooth, that this vibration is very noticeable.

[tamathumper]

This is on your 1100?

Do you have handlebar weights?

Is this under acceleration, or at static speed, or when decelerating?

Does the vibration go away when you let off the throttle and coast with the clutch lever pulled in?

[MikeB]

You installed the tires yourself. I assume you used a fair amount of lubricant to install the tires. You also have balance beads in your tires. 2 ounces of beads in each tire right?

In the off chance that you used too much lube, some of the beads could be stuck in one place in the tire carcass and causing an imbalance. If that is what is happening, you will have to remove the wheel and bounce it vigorously on the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions of the tire to try and break the beads loose.

Before you take off the wheel, spin it on its axle an look for any out of round indications. The tire could be defective. Also, sometimes the bead does not get set properly in the wheel lip and can cause it to feel like it is out of balance.

[johnny42]

Do you have handlebar weights?

Nothing other than what came with the bike. There are "plugs" in the end of the bars.

Is this under acceleration, or at static speed, or when decelerating?

All 3. When I accelerate, it starts to vibrate around 30, gets a bit more vigorous and quite noticeable at 37, then goes away when I hit 40. Same with coming back down.
Does the vibration go away when you let off the throttle and coast with the clutch lever pulled in?

I tried that. The vibration is still there with the engine at idle speed (clutch pulled in).

[johnny42]

>>You installed the tires yourself. I assume you used a fair amount of lubricant to install the tires. You also have balance beads in your tires. 2 ounces of beads in each tire right?

I have a bit over 1 oz. in the front and a bit over 2 oz. in the rear, per Dyna Beads recommendations.

>>In the off chance that you used too much lube, some of the beads could be stuck in one place in the tire carcass and causing an imbalance. If that is what is happening, you will have to remove the wheel and bounce it vigorously on the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions of the tire to try and break the beads loose.

I was thinking that. I'll take the wheel off, double check the bearings, and shake the hell out of it. I assume I won't be able to hear anything if the beads are free to move?

>>Before you take off the wheel, spin it on its axle an look for any out of round indications. The tire could be defective. Also, sometimes the bead does not get set properly in the wheel lip and can cause it to feel like it is out of balance.

I did check the line on the tire to ensure it was equidistant from the rim edge after mounting it, but I can look to see if it spins free and true.

[ka4yqi]

I believe I add another ounce of beads in the front tire and then go front there. Most always run 2 oz of beads in the front tire.

[MikeB]

For the last five years or so I have always used two ounces in the front and rear.

[johnny42]

I removed the front wheel and bounced it around and rolled it. I can't hear any beads moving around, so I assume they're stuck to the mounting lube I used which was Murphy's Oil Soap (not mixed with water).

Can I assume that soapy goo will never dry out and release those beads?
If I put new beads in can I assume they'll get stuck too?
If I take the valve core out would it possibly allow the moisture to evaporate and release the beads?

I'll see if the tire has a heavy spot using what I have in my garage. If it needs balancing, I may need to use weights, but I don't want to use them if I can fix what's already there, or possibly add more beads.

[johnny42]

Weed whackers, lawn edgers, mowers, leaf blowers, and cars going by is why I couldn't hear the beads. In the house, I can hear them moving around in all their glory.

Wheel bearings are good. Speedometer gear (on the axle) seems smooth. Cable was lubed when I installed the new tire. Brakes aren't rubbing. Tire appears properly mounted. The front wheel install was done with a good torque wrench.

To rule out the speedometer cable/gear, I'm going to disconnect the cable. If no change, I'll get more beads and go from there.

Any other thoughts/ideas?

Thanks for the suggestions.

[topgun]

Tire rotation going correct direction?

[johnny42]

Funny you ask that. I know it was correct when I installed it. But today I triple checked! At my age you can't be too careful, or check too many times!

[WingAdmin]

I agree that 1 oz in the front is likely not enough for a Goldwing tire. I'd up to 2 oz. You can't have too much, but you can have too little.

I was also thinking about beads being stuck inside the tire. Put the wheel on a rod so that it can easily turn, and let it find its own center of gravity. Turn it 90 degrees each way and release. Then do the same turning it 180 degrees. If the beads are moving, the wheel should stay where you put it when you let go. If the beads are stuck, the wheel will likely rotate back to where it started.

[johnny42]

I'm going to take advice given here and add more beads, which are on the way. Assuming the wheel/tire is out of balance, perhaps it's taking 40 mph for the beads to fully work, at least with the small amount I currently have. I'm hoping with more beads they start to work at a lower speed. Research shows the beads may not work in all cases until 35 mph or so.

I'll report back later. Thanks for the help folks!

[Asphaltmaniac]

Did you check for drive line slop?

[johnny42]

I'm not sure how to check. Also not sure how installing 2 new tires would affect that.

[Asphaltmaniac]

Maybe the driveshaft is vibrating and your feeling it through the handlebars? I had driveshaft u joints go bad and could feel a vibration while also passing through a certain speed.
So couldn't say just how much drive line back lash is normal when every thing is within factory specs. But with the new driveshaft in and the transmission in 1st gear I measured from a spot on the brake disc forward and back movement of 3/8 inch. It was much more with the bad u joint.

[autonoob]

A motorcycle that vibrates upon acceleration is usually caused by front or rear tire issues such as uneven tread, unbalanced tire, a bent rim, or a sticking brake caliper. Other reasons may include a bent front or rear sprocket, a sticking piston, a bad crankshaft bearing, or a cylinder misfire.

[johnny42]

Two additional ounces of Dyna Beads in front.....no joy.

But you guys have given me several things to check out.

[todehnal]

Hey Johnny42!!! Boy was I glad to find your post. I put new elite 4 tires on my 2000 model GL1500 about the same time as you. Actually, I had my very experienced Honda dealer tech install them for me, and I have the exact same condition as you. You need to try something to verify that it is the exact same issue as I have. At around 38 MPH or so, and you feel the buzz, try some weaving on the road. As you get off of the tire center groove, and migrate over to the sides, you will see that the buzz disappears. What a surprise huh. That eliminates just about everything accept tire tread design. The interesting part here is that I have had several other wing riders test ride my bike, including dealer techs, and they all say they can't feel anything. Finally, I had my dealer perform the weaving test and he said that he could indeed feel a slight difference. I guess you and I are just more conscious about little things.

Now for my story: The dealer worked well with me and ate most of the labor here, but the front wheel bearings were replaced and the drive shaft U joint was replaced. He happened to have another new rear tire in stock so he also replaced it, which he said had quite a bit of run out. He also replaced the fork oil. The buzz was still there. He said that in his opinion, the irregular center grove pattern of the new design was the real cause. By this time, we were leaving our home in Kentucky and bringing the Wing with us to Florida for the winter, so I thought that I would live with it for the time being.

I now have over 4000 miles on the tire and the buzz is still there. I was so upset with this that I finally called Dunlop. After many questions and a thorough discussion they agreed to send me a new tire, with instructions to drill a hole in the sidewall of the old tire near the DOT number, take a picture of it, and send that to them. They didn't want a potentially defective tire to be back on the road, I just had the local dealer here in Florida install the new tire. Guess what. Same buzz as before.

Bottom line, don't spend a lot of money and time chasing a ghost. The problem is with the new Elite 4 Tire Tread Design. Pick a smooth road and try the weaving road test. Look carefully at that center groove and you will see the irregular pattern that is causing the handlebar buzz .......Tom

[johnny42]

I'll try your suggestion.... in a couple months.....LOL......

[todehnal]

Ooops, Sorry about that. Wintering in Florida, I loose track of weather in the real world. I imagine that being in Lancaster NY, your Wing is stored for the winter. Anyway, I am almost positive that you and I are both experiencing the same effects from the new tread design of the new Dunlop Elite 4 front tire. So, we can live with it, or move to Stones......Tom

[todehnal]

IN FACT, I challenge everyone with a GL1500 who is running the Dunlop Elite 4 130/70/18 Bias tire on the front to try this riding experiment:

Find a flat stretch of relatively smooth road. Run along at 30 to 40 mph in 5th gear. Pay attention to the handlebars feel with a light grip. Now carefully ride some S patterns and feel the difference in handlebar buzz as you move on and off of the tires center groove. Squeeze the clutch lever and throttle to idle if you like. Even with gloves on, I can feel the buzz return as I move back to riding on the center groove.

I chased the source of this issue for over 6 months, over 4,000 miles and many dollars. Now that I know exactly what is causing the buzz, it isn't a deal killer on the tires. It's just something that I put up with. I still like the tire. I just wish that Dunlop would change the center groove design and fix this problem. Anyway, give it a try. Thanks...........Tom