Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim


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Fatboy46
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatboy46 » Mon May 09, 2016 1:31 pm



Looks like it is about tread, profile and application. If you are a canyon carver,MC with a round profile would be desired also road racing. Touring? What works and is comfortable. Don't expect the tire mfgr to support cross use or even acknowledge it exists. Nor should you expect to have a CT failure on your bike and then successfully sue the tire mfgr.



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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Charlie Victor » Tue May 10, 2016 4:09 pm

Just to add my 2 cents worth: over here in Europe it is very unusual to run a CT on a MC. I've asked a few mechanics over the years (roughly 15 years since I learned about "going dark side") and all acknowledged they knew about it but would not recommend it for "Everyone who tried nearly killed himself (never females who went darkside, huh?) when turns only started to get a little serious."
Those "serious turns" is what many of us here meet at least a few days per year while touring: very, very few roads run straight for tens or hundreds of kilometers as North-American roads seem to do. Turns is what many of us motorcycle tourists in Europe are after: turns! The more the better. Posted (corner) speeds are for reference only, as are signs "Road closed to motorcyclists on Saturday, Sunday and holidays"... The more evenly a (rear, MC) tire is worn side-to-side, the more fun you've had :twisted:
(Why pay for a whole tire and only use a small middle section??)

The big question for me (and many of us, I guess): would I be able to maintain the same riding style and safety with a CT? Better yet, would cornering characteristics and breaking under angle improve?

Par example: I just returned from four days of criss-crossing Sauerland - one of the regions in Germany popular among European motorcyclists for its winding roads and beautiful, hilly landscape (and beer, and food...). Conditions were ideal, beautiful sunny (dry!) spring weather and 16-23 C. Made 750 kms (+500 back and forth on Autobahn), many of them on country and forest roads that are barely two small passenger cars wide.
I left home with over half of both wear pegs still on (ODO @ 14500 km). I am not going to brag about my riding style (most of the time I do respect village speed limits), but the last half of the left wear peg is completely worn (now beyond the limit, actually, as the footpeg itself is scratched), the right side one is near.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue May 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Interesting that you wear out your wear indicators on your pegs, not a lot of ground clearance I'd venture. Have a PVT (CT) on my '08 wing and can easily get the peg to within a 1/2" of the ground just on normal riding. I also have upgraded the suspension to the Traxxion (full Monty) and have more clearance than before. Tire profiles are different just as much as an MT. I would search for one that is more rounded, and will next time. Is there really much difference between a PVT, and a big and wide MT. The big and wide MT do not take to cornering I've been told.

I have read posts where the person has done on and off road racing, gone to a car tire and has not changed how the bike is rode, and with no detrimental effects. Others have tried it and don't like it.

There are many other aspects to this. What is your comfort level? If you don't scrape the wear pegs when riding with an MT, I don't believe you'll scrape them with a PVT.

I would recommend looking into the different PVT profiles, find one that is more rounded than the rest, put it on and see what you think. It is quite easy to go with the flow, comment without having tried it. When I first installed mine, it was different, but after some 8,000 Km, I see and feel no difference.

If you really want to see and feel a difference, ride your GW then get on a Suzuki C90T (I owned one). This will make you appreciate the term "different".

Give it a shot, if you don't like it, put an MT back on.

Just a thought.

Cheers
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Tue May 10, 2016 6:21 pm

It's truly amazing how the "Professional Keyboardist" can read someone else's post[s] and know for absolute fact that 'X' is true.
It takes YOUR evaluation to properly make any claimed statement. Without YOUR hands on experience, you really know nothing... except what someone else wrote. Isn't that called hearsay, "Second hand news", rumor or a "reporter reporting on a reporters report".

"Everyone who tried nearly killed himself."
Ahhhh but, everyone who rides a motorcycle nearly kills themselves....according to anti-motorcyclists.
So this is a MOOT POINT.
(at no one in particular)... It would be a miracle if liberals really knew what they were saying. (back to this thread)
Touring riders & slalom/chicane/twisty riders are two entire different styles of riding and cannot be compared.

Before I changed my rear tire I tested the contact patch of my (well worn = abnormally wider than usual) rear Elite 3 @42 PSI, then the "Brand spanking new" Austone @44 PSI.
Upright riding E-3 smidgin under 2 inch patch. Austone just over 4.5 inch patch. That's about 225% more contact.
Cornering, E-3 about 2.25 inch patch and the Austone just over 2.75 inch patch. That's about 125% more contact.
Don't believe these findings? That's fine, I only ask you find someone with a CT and run it through a patch of water and measure the treads footprint. Do the same with any normal bike tire. Hopefully this seat of the pants scientific evaluation isn't too strenuous.
Who was that yellow GoldWing 1800 rider with a car tire that rode "Tail of the Dragon" consistently faster than any Zoom-Splat?

.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Charlie Victor » Tue May 10, 2016 6:52 pm

She's standard as can be and she's still on factory tires (15500 kms now). Preload adjustment was set to 5 during this trip - I hardly ever adjust, except for the occasional passenger; I usually forget to adjust to a higher setting, though. I'll try to remember next time...

As for darksiding, she needs new rubber soon, I'm going to have my mechanic figure out what is available over here and give it a shot. Vlogs and most other brands that are recently mentioned are unheard of in my little corner of the world, AFAIK.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Tue May 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Charlie, IF there were a reasonable way to ship my used Austone Taxi Tire to you, my tire would be FREE and you just pay shipping.

It's got about 2 or 3K miles left before the wear bars touch pavement but that be plenty of test time for you. The cornering sidewalls are nearly new, I ride straight up 95% the time and since your riding roads are all twisties... TONS OF MILES left for you. ;)
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by minimac » Wed May 11, 2016 6:11 am

Hey wait a minute....isn't the Austone (like the one I use) a British taxi tire? It should be available all over Europe, at less money than it is in the States! And it works equally as well on an 1800 as it does the 1500.
- For the naysayers: Why do you suppose that almost everyone that has actually tried it, says they'll never go back? Could it be there's really something to it? Nah....it's just because we're all cheap.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:52 pm

minimac wrote:Hey wait a minute....isn't the Austone (like the one I use) a British taxi tire? It should be available all over Europe, at less money than it is in the States! And it works equally as well on an 1800 as it does the 1500.
- For the naysayers: Why do you suppose that almost everyone that has actually tried it, says they'll never go back? Could it be there's really something to it?
Nah....it's just because we're all cheap.


Of all the motorcycles riding on car tires since its inception, that amount of miles has to be into the Billions by now.
No one has ever had or heard of one causing an accident, other than the usual external item causing a flat tire which happens to ANY tire that holds air for its inflation.
EXPERIENCE overshadows designers and keyboard pounders.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatboy46 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:11 pm

FM-usa-- Bless your heart!! there you go using logic and facts and then... throwing in PROOF ! That is the kind of information we need to make an informed opinion. I can pretty much guarantee that any tire manufacturer is NOT going to recommend a CT for use on a MC- no more than any MC tire co is about to say- sure- use our tire on a car or trailer or ??. too much liability. This way, when the MC with a CT on crashes- and someone sues the tire people (deep pockets) they have NO legal responsibility. at least as long as it never gets to a jury- juries can be very strange groups when given SPECIFIC instructions by judges, here in the USA.
thanks for demonstrating the differences.
just noticed the post about 'rounded profile'..and the 42-44 psi - I am thinking ay CT inflated to 42-44 psi would have a "Rounded Profile"? right?

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:38 pm

Almost no amount of over inflated pressure will round any car tire as you would think. (Key word: almost)
Sure Bias Ply tires will round to some degree since the tread area has layers to make it stiff and flat. It's comfort comes from sidewall flex. Radial tires are made differently, the wire core is basically round so over inflation will do nothing to its shape. The radial tires shape comes from extra rubber to the outer corners. The Austone tire I use is a Radial.
.
Way back in the late 1970's Michelin dropped off there newly developed radials for trucks in our shop. They also brought a video of their tires manufacturing process and it being stressed tested and its bursting via over inflation. Amazingly the burst pressure was around 3 times the stated pressure on the carcass (it was a sidewall rupture between cords). I'm guessing because its been 35+ years, the tire pressure then was around 80 PSI (today's truck tires are around 120 PSI). So failure pressure of an 80 PSI tire would be around 240 PSI (300+ PSI for the other, YIKES).
BTW!!!+! For this high PSI reason alone, don't ride along any truck for any amount of time.
OK, back to this show....
Car tires are a bit lower in failure pressures than truck tires. That's due to being thinner side walls begetting more flex for smoother riding not load capacity. So that will place the Austone Radial failure pressure around 150 PSI. Before removing my worn, to the 'wear bars' Austone, for giggles (actually personal knowledge/pleasure) I locked my air chuck on the valve and pumped it up. My air tank safety valve is set at 120 PSI and it bled off the excess pressure. I poked my nose out the door and the tire was still holding its shape. So I will agree with you somewhat on Bias Ply tires but not Radials, the tread area will slightly round, but not much.

EXTRA ALSO...
That Michelin rep brought another video of tires being filled both in and out of safety cages. It was near lunch so we had viewing time. In the worst case scene, a truck tire was laid flat on the floor. When it went, that whole tire blew right through the shops wooden roof, the rim stayed in place... [No humans were harmed in that video :? ]

YAH, I remember a few things that I haven't forgotten.... yet. :shock:

.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by estaibjr » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:02 pm

Your money and you may spend it however you wish. However, years ago I found a photo of a m/c with a car tire in a curve. That one pic settled the issue forever for me. There is almost nothing on the pavement as you go thru the turn. Worth more than 1,000 words. Never in my world.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:56 pm

I know I shouldn't post a rebuttal but.... seems we have a "New Kid on the Block".
Not sure IF this class is open for learning or was posted for OTHER reasons.

Looking at a picture of a tire on pavement and an actual water print on pavement are two different entities.
It's akin to SEEING a rail cars wheel on a track which looks like it's but a fraction of an inch touching and
seeing a carbon paper print of the same rail car wheel which will be 1/2 inch wide new to 1-1/2 inch wide old.

2 weeks ago I showed Deb how much extra grip (contact patch) I have on the road with the DarkDide tires.
I scooted through a water puddle with my almost new Austone and Battlax tires while riding upright.
The rear Austone tire print measured a smidgen over 3-7/8 inches wide @48psi, rear Battlax up front 1-3/4 inches wide.
Comparable new motorcycle tire contact patch, rear 2-5/8 inches wide and the front is about 1-1/2 inches wide.
As they become broke in, these measurement will increase a little.

I also did this water puddle tire printing while turning. Rear was about 2-1/4 inch wide, the front 1-3/4 inch wide.
These measurements will become a little wider when scrubbed in.
I'm unsure of motorcycle tires while in a turn, its been way to long, but I remember it is narrower. ANYONE?


The Austone is an "All Season" tire, motorcycle tires are not. I ride 24/365, the Austone comes in VERY HANDY!
BTW:
YEARS AGO tires had different profiles and compounds and shouldn't be compared to today's tires.

JUST say'n. ;)

WOOPS, almost forgot.
Of all the motorcycles riding on car tires since its inception, the amount of miles has to be into the Billions by now.
Believe it or not, no known accident has been reported using a car tire on a bike. Normal road hazards excluded.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip." W.C.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by minimac » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:12 am

That's right- it's our money and we'll(darksiders) do what we want. If you don't want to do it.... don't. But don't try to scare someone who is interested with scare tactics and false "facts". If everyone accepted the "wisdom" of the so called experts, we'd still think the world was flat and we'd fall off the edge. Gee, that's the same argument anti-darksiders use....the tire is flat and you'll fall of the edge!
Here's a read from some one that doesn't have a horse in this race:


http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... torcycles/

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Rednaxs60 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:12 am

Good read on the article. Read a similar one and the author of it had no axe to grind either way. Choice is the essence of everything we do. Working related accidents are more prevalent at home than at work, why, because we get careless when we don't have to pay attention to rules and such. I have a PVT on my 1800 and enjoy the ride very much. My friends who ride with me have tried to find fault and have yet to do so. Can't remember the last traffic accident where the cause was a tire.

The issue as I see it is do your research, determine what is good for you, try or do not remembering that you can always revert back to the norm. Also remember that it is your decision and hence your responsibility/accountability.

The other aspect is that I do not like the cost of putting a new set or sets of tires on my bike(s) each year just because. If you tour a lot, or use an MC as your main means of transport, it is quit easy to do two sets per year. A person shouldn't have to do this, an option is all that is being asked for, and if not forthcoming, an alternate will be found.

Cheers
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by rampal55 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:29 am

I too run an Austone Tire on my wing and love it... The only downside to having this tire is the maintenance on the drive train kinda falls by the wayside with most riders. I try to keep things well maintained. Just my 2 Cents worth.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:56 am

rampal55 wrote:I too run an Austone Tire on my wing and love it... The only downside to having this tire is the maintenance on the drive train kinda falls by the wayside with most riders. I try to keep things well maintained. Just my 2 Cents worth.
Like semi-tractor trailer rigs which self maintain for a million miles, we could find ways to do something similar.
Not saying oil changes while riding but other regular maintenance items be extended.

Dittoes on the Austone, which lasts me about 80K miles. I do rear maintenance around the 40,000 mile mark. SO MUCH BETTER than every 8-12K. My front tire is around 21-23K (instead of 7-12K).
That makes tire changes a near 2 to 1 ratio.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:59 am

estaibjr wrote:Your money and you may spend it however you wish. However, years ago I found a photo of a m/c with a car tire in a curve. That one pic settled the issue forever for me. There is almost nothing on the pavement as you go thru the turn. Worth more than 1,000 words. Never in my world.
There should be a warning for newbies to not post here... This IS a dark sides only thread...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by offcenter » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:03 pm

On my '99 GL-1500...
I want to put a car tire on it. I've read much of what is written but there is so
much confusing/conflicting info that I'm getting a headache thinking about it.
I want a tire that is about the SAME DIAMETER as the original bike tire.
(I have short legs. The Austone is too tall.)
I'm guessing that a 175 width is about right. Who can tell me first hand
what size I'm looking for, and better yet, which tire you have used that
fit my needs?
Thanks guys.
George in Jersey.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:10 pm

offcenter wrote:On my '99 GL-1500...
I want to put a car tire on it. I've read much of what is written but there is so
much confusing/conflicting info that I'm getting a headache thinking about it.
I want a tire that is about the SAME DIAMETER as the original bike tire.
(I have short legs. The Austone is too tall.)
I'm guessing that a 175 width is about right. Who can tell me first hand
what size I'm looking for, and better yet, which tire you have used that
fit my needs?
Thanks guys.
I'm not trying to offer more headache but have you looked at this tire calculator? (see below)
If your Ad-Block is off it shows some tire suggestions available in the size your searching for.
If the advert does not change (tire size) refresh the page.

I was curious and did a quick search, 195/60-16 has 8 choices but just 3 are viable, rounded tread edge.

www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=160-80r16-195-60r16
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:40 am

offcenter wrote:On my '99 GL-1500...
I'm guessing that a 175 width is about right. Who can tell me first hand
what size I'm looking for, and better yet, which tire you have used that
fit my needs?
Thanks guys.
The 175/60-16 is widely used, lowers rear by 3/4", install easily with no issues and gets far better grip than stock tire. Will notice about 400 more rpm from shorter tire at 65 mph but fuel mileage is unchanged. Was about to go back to that size but sold my 89 Thursday night. When I sold my 94 it had that size and got 38k before being replaced by same size.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by offcenter » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:09 am

Thanks for the info, guys. The tire size calculator is good.
But what make and model of tire are you guys running?

I found this one on line. As a light truck tire, it would seem
to have stiff sidewalls, which I believe is what we want, right?
And the diameter is about right.
What do you guys think of it? Anyone ever used one on a Wing?
Yay or nay? (and why)
https://www.tires-easy.com/185-75-16/no ... de/T429126
George in Jersey.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:32 am

offcenter wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. The tire size calculator is good.
But what make and model of tire are you guys running?

I found this one on line. As a light truck tire, it would seem
to have stiff sidewalls, which I believe is what we want, right?
And the diameter is about right.
What do you guys think of it? Anyone ever used one on a Wing?
Yay or nay? (and why)
https://www.tires-easy.com/185-75-16/no ... de/T429126
Unless you have the means to shave the tires outside edges to something rounded, I'd pass.
BUT it looks good for a trikes rear tires.

Nokian tire.


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by offcenter » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:05 pm

Ok, another choice.
The Michelin Agilis 175/75 R16.
Diameter appears perfect for a Wing.
But it doesn't appear to available anywhere in the US
that I can see. Tire Rack doesn't have it.
http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brand ... lin/agilis
Seems to be mostly available in England and Australia.
Has anyone ever tried ordering a tire from Europe?
Will they ship over here?
George in Jersey.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:06 pm

I inquired last year to import tires to the US, WAY TOO COSTLY.
In order to get a reasonable shipping price you have to order 100 tires.

In the States there's few choices, maybe 3 - 5 total.
Someone said they're having good luck using a trailer tire. :shock:
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:41 am

:|
offcenter wrote:Ok, another choice.
The Michelin Agilis 175/75 R16.
Diameter appears perfect for a Wing.
I was runing a Michelin Agilis 195/75-16 with no rub and only 20 psi in the rear suspension. Did run tire at 50 psi. Only removed to lower bike after last stroke. Larger tire did decreased rpm by 400 and allowed cruise to set at 81 mph.



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