LIGHTS GOING CRAZY ON MY LEMON DCT! Help?

[Big Unit]

Hi All,
This is my first post. Please forgive my newbie mistakes.
I bought a 2018 DCT and have been regretting it ever since. Last year, on my first real ride, the bike starting shutting off at stop lights. It just didn't stop running; the electronics went crazy. The bike would die, but the dash lights would flash in what appeared to be a totally random pattern. Random gauges flashing and numbers changing. To be honest, it looked like a SCI-FI movie when the alien ship hovers over a pickup truck and the lights start flashing and dials go crazy. This happened 6-7 times on a 3-day ride. I took it to the shop and, naturally, they couldn't find anything.

Then, last week, I took it out for an early spring test ride - about a mile. It shut down normally, but when I got off, I noticed the headlights and blinkers flashing randomly and going crazy. (SEE VIDEOhttps://gfycat.com/AssuredMadeupGull).
Again, the Honda shop has never seen anything like this. I called Honda Corporate and they were worthless. They told me to take it to the Honda shop. The shop doesn't know what is wrong. Corporate then offered this great suggestion - "Have you thought of taking it to a different Honda shop?" It doesn't run, so they want me to trailer my 2018 $27,000 motorcycle from Honda shop to Honda shop until I can find one that can fix it. It the meantime, it's late April and my "retirement" bike is dead in the shop.

Has anyone seen anything like this (video)?https://gfycat.com/AssuredMadeupGull

[Redwing822]

That’s messed up. Still under warranty? Any recourse with lemon laws, or does that only apply to autos?

[doxbike]

Ohio has a lemon law that covers motorcycle as well. If there is a major defect that can't be repaired within a "reasonable" number of attempts, the dealership must either replace the motorcycle or give you your money back. There is a time and mileage limit, so get on it!
Don't give up on the bike in general- I have a 2018 DCT (#32) and it's been a dream.
Good luck, get an attorney involved,if necessary because it is a safety issue, not just an annoyance factor. Need to get aggressive ASAP

[iride4u]

You have a dealer problem. The only way that Honda is going to help is if the dealer requests help. If your dealer will not help call the dealer licensing board in your state and tell them your problem. Do not embellish. I had a problem with a BMW K1600GTL Exclusive in 2014 that finally got resolved with BMW's help.

[GLRT]

Rather than offer legal advice I would recommend trying a new battery and verify all connections especially grounds as this new canbus system is very fussy regarding voltages. If this doesn't work then the dealer is the last option. Pretty sure lawyers will not be able to repair the problem.

[warski]

I agree with GLRT. The first place I would go is the battery. I had a 2009 BMW F800GS (CANBUS) that acted similar with a weak battery. I had installed a brand new YUASA battery after 3 years, and started to see the problems. I never noticed the headlights blinking, but the dash would go crazy. If the bike sat for a day and a half, it did not have the power to start. The retailer that sold me the battery "tested" it and declared it good. They suggested that my ride to work was not long enough, and I was the problem, not the battery, even though I told them that the original battery had lasted 3 years with the same riding pattern. I ditched the YUASA and bought a Shorai LiFePo4 battery, problem solved, no more "dancing dash", no more "failure to start". Just because the bike is new and the battery is new doesn't mean that battery is good. Good luck!

[Osen]

I also have a 2018 Goldwing DCT Tour and several times at stops it is idling fine, but when I take off the engine and all power turns off. A few times I could not get it to restart. I never looked at the front lights so do not know if it flashes. Most of the time I can get it restarted after 30 seconds, but once it would not restart. I walked about 100 yards from the bike then came back and it started fine.

I have taken it to two Honda dealers and they say they cannot find anything wrong and they have told me that Honda says they have not heard of the problem.

THAT IS A LIE. At Wing Ding in Knoxville last fall I ran into 3 other owners (I wish I would have gotten there names) that have had the same issue and Honda has told them the same thing that nobody else had had this problem.

I have found that if I take off at the stop slowly I do not have the problem. I have told the dealers I believe I know what the problem is.

In Canada there is a law that requires the bike to turn OFF at stops and automatically restart when you give it throttle. They turn this software subroutine off in the US bikes. I think that there is a bug in the program and sometimes it try's to restart the bike when you are stopped and give it throttle. Since the bike is already running I think the starter engages and locks up the flywheel and the bike quits and it interferes with the electronics since the starter is also the alternator.

Honda will not acknowledge there is a problem. I am seriously thinking of contacting a lawyer to see about a class action lawsuits. I would love to get info from anyone that has this bike and is having this problem. In Illinois I am told the lemon law only applies to cars not motorcycles.

[GLRT]

If I recall in the shop manual there is a way to turn off the idle stop features. I'll check on this

[Osen]

the info about turning off the idle stop feature only applies to the Canadian bikes.

[WingAdmin]

I have found that if I take off at the stop slowly I do not have the problem. I have told the dealers I believe I know what the problem is.

In Canada there is a law that requires the bike to turn OFF at stops and automatically restart when you give it throttle. They turn this software subroutine off in the US bikes. I think that there is a bug in the program and sometimes it try's to restart the bike when you are stopped and give it throttle. Since the bike is already running I think the starter engages and locks up the flywheel and the bike quits and it interferes with the electronics since the starter is also the alternator.

It's a good theory, except that's not how it works. The starter/alternator is permanently connected to the engine - it doesn't engage and disengate, and it's not connecting to a toothed flywheel with a bendix like on a typical car engine, so it can't lock up the engine.

I think you're probably right that it's a software issue, and logic would tend to dictate that it likely has something to do with the stoplight engine-shutoff system, but that's going to have to be something that Honda identifies and fixes.

The good news is that engines on motorcycles unexpectedly shutting off are considered a serious safety issue, which mandate recalls to fix. The bad news is that accidents attributable to this problem need to occur (and be documented) before the NTSB will take notice and force a recall.

[GLRT]

You have a point there as I watch the insurance actions and purchase mildly crashed bikes. I am seeing an over abundance of brand new DCT models in the crash dept and was wondering what is so unique about this model in regards to crashes over prior models.

[Osen]

You can file a complaint directly to Honda. Go to: www.powersports.honda.com Navigate to contact and then click Online Customer Service and click send a message.

You can tell them about the problem. I just filled out one for my bike.

Also, please file a report with the NHTSA.gov so maybe we can get a recall on the bike.

[DaveO430]

Sure sounds like low voltage to me. I wonder if the starter/generator puts out enough charge when at a stop.

[gt750]

I also have a 2018 Goldwing DCT Tour and several times at stops it is idling fine, but when I take off the engine and all power turns off. A few times I could not get it to restart. I never looked at the front lights so do not know if it flashes. Most of the time I can get it restarted after 30 seconds, but once it would not restart. I walked about 100 yards from the bike then came back and it started fine.

I have taken it to two Honda dealers and they say they cannot find anything wrong and they have told me that Honda says they have not heard of the problem.

THAT IS A LIE. At Wing Ding in Knoxville last fall I ran into 3 other owners (I wish I would have gotten there names) that have had the same issue and Honda has told them the same thing that nobody else had had this problem.

I have found that if I take off at the stop slowly I do not have the problem. I have told the dealers I believe I know what the problem is.

In Canada there is a law that requires the bike to turn OFF at stops and automatically restart when you give it throttle. They turn this software subroutine off in the US bikes. I think that there is a bug in the program and sometimes it try's to restart the bike when you are stopped and give it throttle. Since the bike is already running I think the starter engages and locks up the flywheel and the bike quits and it interferes with the electronics since the starter is also the alternator.

Honda will not acknowledge there is a problem. I am seriously thinking of contacting a lawyer to see about a class action lawsuits. I would love to get info from anyone that has this bike and is having this problem. In Illinois I am told the lemon law only applies to cars not motorcycles.

Your theory is wrong on a few fronts. Canada does NOT have a no-idling law. Auto-off software is "ON" in some Euro countries. Is also "OFF" in Canada, unless you reprogram it. Also, if the bike "thinks" it is off when it is on, then tries turning the starter over, there is a one way clutch on the starter. The flywheel will continue to run, you may hear a clicking noise, though.
I believe some of the extra units found in Salvage are due to how many DCT vs. 6 speed manuals were sold initially. Also, it is a new system, may be some Operator error involved.

[Big Unit]

That’s messed up. Still under warranty? Any recourse with lemon laws, or does that only apply to autos?

Yep. Still under warranty. Tomorrow will be a week that it's been at the shop. They were working on it this past Saturday. I'm a little concerned that it's taken this long, but I want to give them a week before stopping in.

[Big Unit]

Ohio has a lemon law that covers motorcycle as well. If there is a major defect that can't be repaired within a "reasonable" number of attempts, the dealership must either replace the motorcycle or give you your money back. There is a time and mileage limit, so get on it!
Don't give up on the bike in general- I have a 2018 DCT (#32) and it's been a dream.
Good luck, get an attorney involved,if necessary because it is a safety issue, not just an annoyance factor. Need to get aggressive ASAP

Yep, I know OF the Lemon Law. In a major way, I'd hope to have it declared a lemon because the problem is intermittent. Not to disparage any technicians, but it's like - jiggle this, replace that, and break something in the process till it starts. Start it, shuto off and start it again. For this: $400. After only 200 or so miles max, same thing (DOA). I'd be really happy to get a refund and purchase a new/old 2018 big, fat, dependable Goldwing.

[Big Unit]

You have a dealer problem. The only way that Honda is going to help is if the dealer requests help. If your dealer will not help call the dealer licensing board in your state and tell them your problem. Do not embellish. I had a problem with a BMW K1600GTL Exclusive in 2014 that finally got resolved with BMW's help.

Tomorrow (Thursday) makes a week that it's been in the shop. I've never seen anything like this, but I don't see a happy ending. It's like it has a mind of its own. Lights just started flashing like it robot that really wanted to party.

[Big Unit]

I also have a 2018 Goldwing DCT Tour and several times at stops it is idling fine, but when I take off the engine and all power turns off. A few times I could not get it to restart. I never looked at the front lights so do not know if it flashes. Most of the time I can get it restarted after 30 seconds, but once it would not restart. I walked about 100 yards from the bike then came back and it started fine.

I have taken it to two Honda dealers and they say they cannot find anything wrong and they have told me that Honda says they have not heard of the problem.

THAT IS A LIE. At Wing Ding in Knoxville last fall I ran into 3 other owners (I wish I would have gotten there names) that have had the same issue and Honda has told them the same thing that nobody else had had this problem.

I have found that if I take off at the stop slowly I do not have the problem. I have told the dealers I believe I know what the problem is.

In Canada there is a law that requires the bike to turn OFF at stops and automatically restart when you give it throttle. They turn this software subroutine off in the US bikes. I think that there is a bug in the program and sometimes it try's to restart the bike when you are stopped and give it throttle. Since the bike is already running I think the starter engages and locks up the flywheel and the bike quits and it interferes with the electronics since the starter is also the alternator.

Honda will not acknowledge there is a problem. I am seriously thinking of contacting a lawyer to see about a class action lawsuits. I would love to get info from anyone that has this bike and is having this problem. In Illinois I am told the lemon law only applies to cars not motorcycles.

Amazing! You've described my "early" symptoms exactly!

Up until this last time, I think only the dash lights were going crazy. The temp gauge would give numbers that I really didn't think anywhere near accurate and so on and so forth - but I couldn't get it to turn over either. Nothing.

I'd push it off to the side of the road and wait a while. Sometimes, I'd fart around with it and it would start; sometimes not. I don't think it made any difference what I did - but your reasoning sounds plausible.

As I said, mine started out doing the same as yours is doing now. However, this year, the problem has gone from a flashing dash to flashing front lights.

BTW - More than one Honda "Pro" has told me, "I've never heard of THAT problem before." If that is the case, Honda Corporate Tech must not be talking to each other. I almost think they don't want to admit it.

I've been riding Goldwings since 1983. I love 'em to death, but I can not recommend this one...

PS - I just hope the horn doesn't start blowing! I'm afraid I'd have to leave it.


----KEEP IN TOUCH!!!---

[Big Unit]

I agree with GLRT. The first place I would go is the battery. I had a 2009 BMW F800GS (CANBUS) that acted similar with a weak battery. I had installed a brand new YUASA battery after 3 years, and started to see the problems. I never noticed the headlights blinking, but the dash would go crazy. If the bike sat for a day and a half, it did not have the power to start. The retailer that sold me the battery "tested" it and declared it good. They suggested that my ride to work was not long enough, and I was the problem, not the battery, even though I told them that the original battery had lasted 3 years with the same riding pattern. I ditched the YUASA and bought a Shorai LiFePo4 battery, problem solved, no more "dancing dash", no more "failure to start". Just because the bike is new and the battery is new doesn't mean that battery is good. Good luck!

Thanks, but no problems with the battery. Everything is solid. Good, clean connections.

I also was going to attempt that "Clutch Reset" procedure (or whatever the hell it's called), but I couldn't get passed step one. There were no magic beeps. Nothing.

It's unfortunate. I paid $27k for this bike and I had super-high expectations. I just turned 64 and this was going to (most likely) be my last tourer.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but the way it's been going with Honda tech support, I fear they'll be asking me to sacrifice a chicken or something next...

I feel that it ain't my job to fix it. I could see if it was used and worn out, but I bought it new. blah blah blah..

[Big Unit]

You have a point there as I watch the insurance actions and purchase mildly crashed bikes. I am seeing an over abundance of brand new DCT models in the crash dept and was wondering what is so unique about this model in regards to crashes over prior models.

Interesting.

I will tell you that it's much lighter and smoother than any of my other bikes. Auto-Downshifting can be a bit non-intuitive - especially at very slow speeds. Normally, I'd use the clutch to smooth things out. With this, you don't have that option (clutch). I can see a lot a newbie to mid-riders having trouble getting used to it. It could be easy to lose at slow speeds. Good thing it's so much lighter!

[Big Unit]

You can file a complaint directly to Honda. Go to: www.powersports.honda.com Navigate to contact and then click Online Customer Service and click send a message.

You can tell them about the problem. I just filled out one for my bike.

Also, please file a report with the NHTSA.gov so maybe we can get a recall on the bike.

Thanks, much. I hope I can remember to do this tomorrow. I still want to talk to the shop tomorrow, first.

Thanks.

[gt750]

Being an intermittent problem causes a lot of time to be spent to even replicate the issue. Sounds like a heat related isssue in that the bike heats up, acts up, stalls, cools down, then restarts. Unless Honda USA authorizes the Dealership to do something, the bike will sit. With a Company like Honda, you'll be taken care of. Look at their past record. Look at their engineering record. But, this bike has a few new systems in place. I'd at least ask for a nice loaner model, while you wait!

[Big Unit]

Thanks for your comments gt750, but although it may sound like it's heating up, prior to the last occurrence (as in the video), I only had ridden it about 400 yards. It sat for a couple of weeks. I fired it up, road down to the end of my dead-end road and back, shut the bike and the lights went crazy. It hadn't even warmed up.

UPDATE: I called the dealer yesterday. They told me that Honda told them to check a ground. They did that and put the battery on a charger. It "threw a code" that indicated the navigation was bad. They replaced the nav. No more code and the bike is now running. The bike died for the Honda tech after shutting it off after he got it running, but I don't know when this happened during the repair process. He said he was going to ride it last night and today, button it up and call me today to pick it up. I hate to sound like Eeyore, but I'm just not optimistic.

thx.

[WingAdmin]

Any updates? How are you making out?

[Osen]

I have taken mine in 3 times now but they still cannot find the problem. They checked all grounds, charged the battery (remember this is a new bike & battert) but no success. Illinois lemon law I found out is you must take it in 4 times in a year. I got it back exactly 1 year and it has been there only 3 times. My attorney has sent a letter to Honda. I'll let you know what they respond with.