Transmission stuck/not shifting down

[GoldWing808]

Here’s a good one for ya. I bought my 2019 DCT in April, I rode it 2600 miles in about a week for a trip, and have put 700 miles on it around since then. One day, just randomly, I pulled into my spot and went to back up…nothing happened. It was stuck in 2nd gear, wouldn’t go into neutral and therefore no walking mode. “Okay,” I thought, “that’s weird.” It was making a gobbledegook flashing symbol in place of the gear indicator too. Backed it up and said I’d check it in the morning.

Morning came, and I went to the bike and rolled it several feet forward and backward, started it and…I heard it click, heard it shift down, and it went into neutral. Maybe it was stuck mid shift, I heard that something unsprung weight from the wheel can cause weird things. Whatever, worked now.

Well, flash forward for that Saturday, June 23rd. I had an appointment to go to, so I took the trusty Wing. The damn thing got me stranded in heavy traffic about a mile and a half from my house, stuck in SEVENTH gear, not shifting down, flashing gobbledegook, etc. I had to roll it to the turn lane, where I proceeded to back into the guardrail and scratch the left pannier (was I pissed. Hot, stuck in traffic, in the sun wearing a motorcycle jacket…and I scratched my pannier). I got it to shift down to neutral, got it into D and moved the bike to a neighborhood close to my old one before it did it again. This time I paid attention. When it got to normal operating temperature, she 3 bars are displayed, it will misbehave. I waited for it to get down to 3 bars, moved it a half block away where there was shade, and called GWRRA’s towing (might as well use it before they shut down eh?).

I was able to ride the bike onto the flat bed, and get it into neutral at home the next day, when the motor was super cold, so I could do the transmission initialization…which I went through, but the bike wouldn’t shift out of N that time.

Honda can’t see the bike until August 18th (8 days from now), but it’s been sitting since June 23rd. I can’t find any record of this happening. The first thing I did was check oil level since it only does it at operating temperature. Oil level was PERFECT, color still good. Honda of North America says the VIN doesn’t show up on their radar as having issues, but there sure as hell is one. I’m wondering if it’s a TCM since if you use the “paddle” shifter (it’s a button), I can hear the clutch packs operating, but the bike doesn’t register. I have taken video of the gobbledygook, and will attempt to either attach a link or add it inline, if anyone thinks they might know.

I fully expect to have to rebuild the trans, and am hoping Honda’s factory warranty will cover it (this is year 3 of 3). I have 16,000 miles on it, and those 2600 miles in April were Wisconsin to San Diego in 100° heat and ridiculous winds, and those wildfires in New Mexico. The bike behaved beautifully, and I have had no issues whatsoever with it.

Edit: okay, I have no idea how to add a video link.

[Rambozo]

Upload your video to TikTok, Vimeo or YouTube and use the provided buttons to add the URL.

Sounds like a control system failure, not an internal trans problem.

[WingAdmin]

I agree, it sounds like an electronic control failure. It's not uncommon for electronics to fail only when they exceed a certain temperature. The gobbledegook you're seeing on the screen also supports this.

[GoldWing808]

This is all I see when I use the buttons.

But it basically flashes the following symbols.

Thanks for the answers. Hopefully Honda will cover it under warranty…if not, looks like I’ll be extending the factory warranty to 60 months.

[GoldWing808]

I agree, it sounds like an electronic control failure. It's not uncommon for electronics to fail only when they exceed a certain temperature. The gobbledegook you're seeing on the screen also supports this.

I’ll also be curious as to what they say about how they suspect the failure occurred. This is as fascinating to me as the fix. When I rode to the dock, it was the Sunday of Mother’s Day when I left. 40° the week prior, 65° the day I left (Midwest) and 100°+ almost the whole time I was in Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. And it’s 75°-85° here daily. I expect the tolerances Honda puts the bikes through exceed this, and it’s been 700 miles since then, but I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Will update post next week after Honda takes a look at it.

[GoldWing808]

So far, not good. After weeks of waiting and having the wrong tow truck arrive (I suggested a flatbed), Honda basically had me authorize 3 hours diagnostic time. That was Thursday. Bike had already moved downstairs by the time I left (turns out you cannot extend the manufacturer warranty unless you bought the bike from that dealer, btw). They’re closed Saturday and Sunday.

So today, Tuesday the 23rd, I got a call…asking for more diagnostic time. This is all to see if Honda will even cover it.

I know it’s acting up, it had to…it did while I was moving the bike to the service department.

Disappointed in Honda already. Of course I get the one DCT that doesn’t effing work.

[GoldWing808]

Heard from Honda dealer today. I guess the tech diagnosed the transmission position sensor actuator as being faulty. The part number they included is 38800-MKC-A01, which they call the “Sensor (350 Degree). Looks like 2 angle sensor O-rings too, P/N 91308-HN0-A10. Sensor is $142.99, gaskets are $3.99 per. The “renew sensor” labor is $225 ($150/hour here). I have no idea what this is, but having worked in a shop for 7 years I can make an educated guess. Does anyone else know what this does in the DCT, and why it may have failed?

The bike only shipped with a 3 year warranty, which expired in December (dude in Florida must have bought it in 2018). I had reached out to Honda North America prior to the bike arriving at my dealership, but they don’t have any technicians on staff. I want to call them tomorrow since I’m disappointed and concerned this part failed at 16,000 miles. Oh, and the dealership initially wrote me up for about 2 hours’ diagnostic, which is fine, but then I see that there’s an additional 2.5 hours I’m being charged for.

At my shop, the computerized diagnostic covered 1.5 hours. If they guys really needed more time, I’d normally just add it since they usually could solve any computerized issues in that time. One of my master techs pointed out today maybe bikes are different, but I just think they’re not used to Gold Wings at all. Plus, this is a kind of unknown issue on all the forums I’ve checked. I want to see if they can do something about the diagnosis time. I’ll gladly pay parts and labor. The last time I wrote in, I see they had requested 4 hours plus the initial 2 hours, so they basically modified it so it’s $900 in labor, either way.

I also have an aftermarket warranty I got through my credit union, so I’m going to see what if anything they can do.

[WingAdmin]

Heard from Honda dealer today. I guess the tech diagnosed the transmission position sensor actuator as being faulty. The part number they included is 38800-MKC-A01, which they call the “Sensor (350 Degree). Looks like 2 angle sensor O-rings too, P/N 91308-HN0-A10. Sensor is $142.99, gaskets are $3.99 per. The “renew sensor” labor is $225 ($150/hour here). I have no idea what this is, but having worked in a shop for 7 years I can make an educated guess. Does anyone else know what this does in the DCT, and why it may have failed?

The bike only shipped with a 3 year warranty, which expired in December (dude in Florida must have bought it in 2018). I had reached out to Honda North America prior to the bike arriving at my dealership, but they don’t have any technicians on staff. I want to call them tomorrow since I’m disappointed and concerned this part failed at 16,000 miles. Oh, and the dealership initially wrote me up for about 2 hours’ diagnostic, which is fine, but then I see that there’s an additional 2.5 hours I’m being charged for.

At my shop, the computerized diagnostic covered 1.5 hours. If they guys really needed more time, I’d normally just add it since they usually could solve any computerized issues in that time. One of my master techs pointed out today maybe bikes are different, but I just think they’re not used to Gold Wings at all. Plus, this is a kind of unknown issue on all the forums I’ve checked. I want to see if they can do something about the diagnosis time. I’ll gladly pay parts and labor. The last time I wrote in, I see they had requested 4 hours plus the initial 2 hours, so they basically modified it so it’s $900 in labor, either way.

I also have an aftermarket warranty I got through my credit union, so I’m going to see what if anything they can do.

It's just a little device that reads the current rotational position of the shift drum, to derive which gear it's in. In years past it was just a multi-position switch, but today I'm sure it's a potentiometer with a computer chip to digitize it and a CANBus connector, because...progress.

Revzilla lists them for $129.

Transmission position sensor

[GoldWing808]

It's just a little device that reads the current rotational position of the shift drum, to derive which gear it's in. In years past it was just a multi-position switch, but today I'm sure it's a potentiometer with a computer chip to digitize it and a CANBus connector, because...progress.

Revzilla lists them for $129.

TPS.JPG

“Because progress” is the greatest explanation of new technology I’ve ever heard.

[Rambozo]

It's a moving part, so it's not a case of if it will fail, but when. It made it out of warranty, so Honda could chalk that up as a win, but I think they want a bit more longevity. My guess is it was a minor manufacturing defect, since it failed so quickly. It will be interesting to see how this all comes out.
There have always been a few issues when Honda does a redesign. Seems like it takes them a year or two to get all the bugs worked out. If I wanted to be an early adopter of a new design, I would probably plan to only keep it through the warranty then sell it. Or just wait a bit to buy until there is a proven track record. The same thing happened with the 88-89 GL1500 and the first few years of the original GL1800. I think this new one ticked all the boxes in 2021.

[GoldWing808]

It's a moving part, so it's not a case of if it will fail, but when. It made it out of warranty, so Honda could chalk that up as a win, but I think they want a bit more longevity. My guess is it was a minor manufacturing defect, since it failed so quickly. It will be interesting to see how this all comes out.
There have always been a few issues when Honda does a redesign. Seems like it takes them a year or two to get all the bugs worked out. If I wanted to be an early adopter of a new design, I would probably plan to only keep it through the warranty then sell it. Or just wait a bit to buy until there is a proven track record. The same thing happened with the 88-89 GL1500 and the first few years of the original GL1800. I think this new one ticked all the boxes in 2021.

I thought I’d be safe with a MY2019 for that reason, working out the bugs. But yeah, 16,000 miles and it didn’t fail on the cross country trip I took after I bought it. But yeah, electronics can be worse than mechanical in the sense that when it fails, it fails and there’s no signs.

Looking like my aftermarket warranty will help me, just not sure how much.

Losing my job, having the Wing go down and also having the fourth motor installed in my Zero DS (this one under warranty). Been a bit of a crappy summer here.

[dclinton]

The exact thing happened to me - - 3 times! My post is on GoldwingDocs under "Strange Snowflake Display". It is back at the dealership now. I am awaiting their assessment. Will share your post with them. Thanks.

[GoldWing808]

The exact thing happened to me - - 3 times! My post is on GoldwingDocs under "Strange Snowflake Display". It is back at the dealership now. I am awaiting their assessment. Will share your post with them. Thanks.

Three times? Oof.

[havasujohn]

Hope they get it fixed. I’m going to keep watching this thread. I have a 2018 DCT with a California Sidecar Conversion that doesn’t shift under hard acceleration. I plan on. Taking it to dealer month.

[GoldWing808]

Hope they get it fixed. I’m going to keep watching this thread. I have a 2018 DCT with a California Sidecar Conversion that doesn’t shift under hard acceleration. I plan on. Taking it to dealer month.

Have you done the initialization, as shown on this forum and on the YouTube?

[GoldWing808]

Got it back today. Stil pissed I had to pay that much for more diagnostic time (that’s not my fault you couldn’t find it, but it works. This is what the part looks like (smells like motor oil too).

[GoldWingrGreg]

Heard from Honda dealer today. I guess the tech diagnosed the transmission position sensor actuator as being faulty. The part number they included is 38800-MKC-A01, which they call the “Sensor (350 Degree). Looks like 2 angle sensor O-rings too, P/N 91308-HN0-A10. Sensor is $142.99, gaskets are $3.99 per. The “renew sensor” labor is $225 ($150/hour here). I have no idea what this is, but having worked in a shop for 7 years I can make an educated guess. Does anyone else know what this does in the DCT, and why it may have failed?

The bike only shipped with a 3 year warranty, which expired in December (dude in Florida must have bought it in 2018). I had reached out to Honda North America prior to the bike arriving at my dealership, but they don’t have any technicians on staff. I want to call them tomorrow since I’m disappointed and concerned this part failed at 16,000 miles. Oh, and the dealership initially wrote me up for about 2 hours’ diagnostic, which is fine, but then I see that there’s an additional 2.5 hours I’m being charged for.

At my shop, the computerized diagnostic covered 1.5 hours. If they guys really needed more time, I’d normally just add it since they usually could solve any computerized issues in that time. One of my master techs pointed out today maybe bikes are different, but I just think they’re not used to Gold Wings at all. Plus, this is a kind of unknown issue on all the forums I’ve checked. I want to see if they can do something about the diagnosis time. I’ll gladly pay parts and labor. The last time I wrote in, I see they had requested 4 hours plus the initial 2 hours, so they basically modified it so it’s $900 in labor, either way.

I also have an aftermarket warranty I got through my credit union, so I’m going to see what if anything they can do.

Dealers around me usually charge 1 hr to pull codes, then they'll call and ask for more time from there. At my shop, instead of doing it that way, I ususally start with 4hrs of labor so that I don't have to make that first call and ask for approval, and add'l time, to continue. Most of that time is used for removing/reinstalling plastic leaving very little for actual diagnotic time. I remind my customers that there are no gaurentees with electrical problems ... that it is their issue, and I'm only here to help them with it. At some point we discuss that sometimes, in the process of diagnosing their issue, their symptom goes away only to return at a later time where we have to start all over again. Usually that conversation ends with the need for them to choose their repair shop carefully ... again, it is their issue

Hopefully your aftermarket insurance will cover your repair.

[GoldWing808]

Hopefully your aftermarket insurance will cover your repair.

Service advisor was too busy and understaffed to call. I just ate the cost so I could get my bike back.

7 years in a shop with master techs, I’ve gotten very good at diagnostic stuff, in particular how I run my service department. It’s just not how I would do it, just because the tech is unfamiliar with the bike (I found the problem myself) doesn’t mean I should be charged more. 1.5 hours for diagnostic, hell let’s say 2 hours, then the repair. And rest assured, they are very unfamiliar with Wings. If it was a Grom, a Harley, or a dumbass moped, it would have been fixed in a week. Guarantee.

But that’s how they do it, I’m not in charge lol. Whatever. It’s fixed.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Hopefully your aftermarket insurance will cover your repair.

Service advisor was too busy and understaffed to call. I just ate the cost so I could get my bike back.

7 years in a shop with master techs, I’ve gotten very good at diagnostic stuff, in particular how I run my service department. It’s just not how I would do it, just because the tech is unfamiliar with the bike (I found the problem myself) doesn’t mean I should be charged more. 1.5 hours for diagnostic, hell let’s say 2 hours, then the repair. And rest assured, they are very unfamiliar with Wings. If it was a Grom, a Harley, or a dumbass moped, it would have been fixed in a week. Guarantee.

But that’s how they do it, I’m not in charge lol. Whatever. It’s fixed.

Most dealers here in Florida, and this state has far more GWs then probably any state other then CA, are not familiure with working on GWs at all. In fact, they are so unfamilure with them, most techs don't even want to work on one. Basically, other then doing PDIs, and recalls, they rarely touch them. Very few Honda service departments will have regular GW customers who bring their Wings in for ruteen maintance. In general the powersprots industry is much different then the car industry. For example, there is no such thing as getting parts at 3, 4 or 10% over cost, no net 30, and no free delivery. Even though I'm my Honda dealers biggest customer, there is no such thing as another dealer's outside rep knocking on my door wanting my business. In fact, many Honda service departments in my state, direct their service customers to me.

[GoldWing808]

Hopefully your aftermarket insurance will cover your repair.

Service advisor was too busy and understaffed to call. I just ate the cost so I could get my bike back.

7 years in a shop with master techs, I’ve gotten very good at diagnostic stuff, in particular how I run my service department. It’s just not how I would do it, just because the tech is unfamiliar with the bike (I found the problem myself) doesn’t mean I should be charged more. 1.5 hours for diagnostic, hell let’s say 2 hours, then the repair. And rest assured, they are very unfamiliar with Wings. If it was a Grom, a Harley, or a dumbass moped, it would have been fixed in a week. Guarantee.

But that’s how they do it, I’m not in charge lol. Whatever. It’s fixed.

Most dealers here in Florida, and this state has far more GWs then probably any state other then CA, are not familiure with working on GWs at all. In fact, they are so unfamilure with them, most techs don't even want to work on one. Basically, other then doing PDIs, and recalls, they rarely touch them. Very few Honda service departments will have regular GW customers who bring their Wings in for ruteen maintance. In general the powersprots industry is much different then the car industry. For example, there is no such thing as getting parts at 3, 4 or 10% over cost, no net 30, and no free delivery. Even though I'm my Honda dealers biggest customer, there is no such thing as another dealer's outside rep knocking on my door wanting my business. In fact, many Honda service departments in my state, direct their service customers to me.

Wow, is it because most Wingers do their own maintenance? I guess I was just spoiled being in the Midwest. But now I think about it, I had to tell the technician who did my brakes on my ‘83 Interstate that they were linked…explains a lot.

Thanks for this. I’ll have to call and ask their experience next time.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Wow, is it because most Wingers do their own maintenance? I guess I was just spoiled being in the Midwest. But now I think about it, I had to tell the technician who did my brakes on my ‘83 Interstate that they were linked…explains a lot.

Thanks for this. I’ll have to call and ask their experience next time.

I think it's a combination of things. First, is the fact that there is no JDPowers survaying a new customer's experiance when they return for their 1st service, so there is no incentive for a dealer to improve. The Japanese car influance, regaurding quality, and JDPowers, greatly transformed the auto industry in the late 70s and 80s and even thru today ... the PowerSports (PS) industry has no JDPowers. Next is mistrust many owners have with Honda m/c dealers/mechanics becasue of bad experiances. How techs are paid does not help either ... many have no benifits, work in non-climate controlled environments, and trying to beat Honda flat-rate times is nearly impossible, and one thing about GWs is that they take constant focus, and attension to detail, which does not matchup well with flat-rate pay. Making a living with benifits is far easier in the auto industry, so many jump ship and become car mechanics, leaving PS dealers always getting new, untrained help. Also many Wings get so accessories out that techs don't want to work on them. Broken plastic from prior repairs is another ... the current tech always gets blamed. Last is the cost to properly maintain one which is about $2,000 for every 10,000 miles of riding. Unfortunately, lots of that is labor cost to remove and reinstall plastic.

[GoldWing808]

Hey, guess what’s happened again? The same thing, only this time there was no warning. Stranded again. 2 points Honda, 0 points me. Now I look the right damn fool.

[dclinton]

The same thing has happened to me with two bikes; a 2020 GL 1800 DCT Tour, and a 2022! Check the thread out under "Strange Snowflake Display". Below is my last post. The bike is still at the shop:

Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:48 am
Okay; since the last post I decided to upgrade to a 2022 DCT Tour because the technician was involved in an accident while test driving my 2020. At that point I figured the bike was a jinx

Anyway, after about three weeks, and 1000 miles the new bike started exhibiting the same symptoms (snowflakes, etc) as the old one. In fact it went one step further - - - it stalled on me while idling. When I tried to start it back up it wouldn't start. I noticed that it would not shift into neutral, as is necessary for start-up. So I had to have it towed, but when the tow truck arrived, i pushed the bike a bit to get it situated for the tow truck, and decided to try it again; it started-up. Its been at the shop for about a month now, and I met with the technicians yesterday.

They said something has to do with the clutch, but they won't know until they do a complete tear down. The Honda representative instructed them to ask me what my driving style was. I'm sure that was to see if some type of abuse was involved. At least seventy percent of the time I ride, it is to and from destinations where I take slow-ride safety courses. The commonality between the 2020 that I had the same problem with, and this 2022 is the extensive slow riding at speeds less than 10-12 mph at rpm's of 1000 to 1200. I am wondering if the slow riding regimes is an issue with the DCT.

Any comments or similar experiences? Thanks

[Rambozo]

Since you can't moderate with the clutch, do you have to constantly drag the brakes to perform all those low speed maneuvers?

[dclinton]

Not a constant drag; just light pressure while executing the turn, balanced with appropriate throttle engagement. Some of the (cone) patterns can be done without brakes. That's mostly beyond my pay grade, but I'm working on it
Now, if I can just get my bike back!