SAFETY ISSUE - Engine Dies when Emergency Braking DCT

[RavingDan]

I have a 2023 Goldwing Tour DCT. I took the MSF Advanced Rider Course this summer, during the course we did Emergency Braking Drills.

The Goldwing stopped amazingly fast- faster than most bikes in the class, especially big Harleys. BUT ------- 1 out of 3 times the motor stopped when the bike stopped, and several times when it stopped it was in gear- so getting it to restart was a real problem. I went from the course to the dealer, and in 3 attempts I was able to reproduce the problem for the service manager- Emergency Braking at 20 - 25 mph in their parking lot. The bike stopped amazingly well- but when the engine died it was in first gear and would not allow me to restart it until it was in neutral.

The dealer reported this to Honda Technical Support, they acknowledged to him that they have heard of the problem occurring during MSF courses and emergency braking. They instructed him to reset the ECU and perform a DCT reset. They also changed the oil to Honda Oil as the oil they had used during oil changes was not 'Honda'.

I then tested this and am happy to report that it took 6 attempts to have the motor stop during Emergency Braking. I also discovered that if you roll the bike a little forward and backwards it would go into neutral to allow you to restart it.

I have reported this to Honda Customer Service, they created a case number- but they report they have not heard of this problem before and they don't know how to fix it- AND THAT I AM PERFORMING SOMETHING THAT IS BEYOND THE DESIGN OF THE MOTORCYCLE. "Beyond the design of the motorcycle" - WHAT... so if you have to apply Emergency Braking procedures to avoid an accident, and then see another vehicle approaching you from behind on a collision course with you and the bike dies and will not restart is "Beyond Design of the Motorcycle"????

I elevated this to a higher level person in Customer Service- who reported the same thing - 'Beyond the design of the motorcycle'. And they will do nothing about it.

I have reported this to a couple other forums- with most people not understanding 'Emergency Braking'. A couple people reported they have other DCT equipped Hondas that do not exhibit this problem. A couple reported having the problem, but wrote it off and did not do anything else about it.

So- I would like to ask those that have DCT equipped Goldwing's that have made it this far in the post- Can you test your motorcycle and see if you have the same problem. If you do, best thing I can suggest is making Honda Customer Service aware of your situation, maybe if enough people have the same problem Honda will do something??? Reporting back to this forum post would also be helpful.

[GoldWingrGreg]

What oil had you been using ??? With 5th gens, using anything other then Honda's GN4 can cause various problems, and the same is beginning to show with 6th gens. Honda very much knows that GN4 10w-30 is the best oil for them, thus of all their oils that they could recommend, it's the only one that they recommend. Here at JustWings, the only specilized GL1800 repair shop in the world, Honda's GN4 the only oil we would use in one. In stead of an additive pack that is made for everything, theirs is very specific.

Also, although Honda of Canada might be able to say that your operating your Wing incorrectly, such a comment here in the USA would probably not go over well. I'd consider dieing a huge safty concern. By getting others involved might be your only chance of having it remidied. Their complaints need logged here. https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

[WingAdmin]

I wonder if the longitudinal G's from hard braking are causing the bank angle sensor to trigger?

[Rambozo]

Since it seems to be very repeatable, they should do some data collection on it to figure out what is going on.
I was thinking about the BAS. However, if it was the BAS wouldn't you have to cycle the key for a restart?

[fullarmorcycle]

For what it's worth, we own a powersports dealership and service a plethora of Honda products. We've seen very similar issues with a range of Honda products that employ various forms of electronically controlled shifting. On ATVs we've run across situations where, for some reason, people will turn off the vehicle while in gear and it will not restart. It also will not shift to neutral with the key in the on position unless the vehicle is rocked back and forth. Not unusual. Same on some bikes.

As for the GN4 deal, with all due respect (sincerely) to Honda, I couldn't disagree more. There is nothing special about the GN4 other than it meets the now common JASO MA2 standards, GN4 comes out of the same refineries as other brands. Honda doesn't own an oil company. That doesn't mean we should be using car oil in motorcycles, but high quality motorcycle oils such as Lucas, Amsoil, Maxima etc have the required additives for wet clutch systems and typically exceed OEM specs. Many also have extra zinc which is very helpful for air cooled motorcycle engines. The key is meeting JASO MA2 standards, especially for bikes having catalytic converters. Will probably pick a scab with someone for saying this, but it's also why we don't recommend using Shell Rotella in motorcycles. I know some people swear by it, but that oil was specifically developed for diesel engines and everything that goes with that application. It's not worth using to save $4 on an oil change. Link below that might be helpful. It will tell you more than you probably ever wanted to know about motorcycle oil standards. Enjoy!

https://www.repairsmith.com/blog/jaso-ma2/

[extremetouring]

I was discussing this with a friend who is a technical specialists that solves problems for Toyota dealers in Canada from powertrains to computers and he said the following;

“I would think that the cause is that the clutch is not disengaging quickly enough when the bikes come to a sudden stop. This looks to me like a software related defect that the ECU doesn’t sent the signal quickly enough to pull the clutch.”

He suggested I pass this by the fellow with the Powersport dealership for his thoughts.

[klook]

Oh boy, an oil thread. I may have to buy more popcorn for this one.....

[Jobar]

When the motorbike turns off with the gearbox engaged in one gear, to start it you must keep both brakes on.
This is to prevent the motorbike from starting dangerously forwards during the starting phase
Jo
From Italy

[Grab2366]

That sounds like a major saftey defect that Honda Corp. is trying to blow off..

[owen.taylor]

G'day from down under!

I have a 2021 model and it has only ever had GN4 in it - I know this because I have performed all of the oil changes and all other scheduled servicing. To date the bike has not needed any other attention. Gotta love the Honda!

My bike also occasionally shuts down following a hard braking event - to me it feels like a simple engine stall from the clutch(s) not disengaging quickly enough when the bike comes to a complete stop.
It also stays in gear when the engine stops. As reported in another post, rocking the bike back and forth a litle allows it to release into neutral and then restart - not ideal when the clown in the car behind isn't paying attention.

I will now report this to my dealer and to Honda in Oz but I hold out very little hope of any resolution here - there just aren't enough of us to get any attention from the mother ship!

Cheers,
Owen

[privilege15]

Just registered on this forum to tell that I have almost exactly the same issue with my DCT 2023 here in Aus.

It happened 2 times and both seem to have in common the following:

1. I was in standard Tour mode
2. I was moving uphill towards a turn
3. I was slowing down (braking) more aggressively than usual normal braking, while negotiating a turn at the same time (trail braking)

You can hear at the start of the video, after the engine dies, the bike clicks into Neutral.

Suspecting some safety trigger kicks in cutting out the engine...in a turn...right...very safe.

Here, I recorded this video:
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