Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs


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swr1977
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Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Fri May 25, 2018 9:38 am



I've been thinking about replacing all the original bulbs in my 1970 GL1000 with LEDs and have had several people tell me not to purchase the cheap ones from ebay!

Example link...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/272767532421?s ... 1436.l2649
20Pcs BA9S LED White 1895 for $15.95 with FREE shipping ... very cheap at less then $1 each!

Another GoldwingDocs member suggested ordering from: https://www.superbrightleds.com
See picture below for what I'm thinking of ordering!

What would the best color temperature be for the instrument panel lights/LEDs? Cool 6100K or Warm 2700K ? I'm looking at:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... 2077/4726/
but don't know which to order. What do you think would be better?


Where can I get a LED flasher relay that is the same size and shape as original?

I found these but don't know which, if ether will work?...
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... r/779/833/

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... r/781/835/

Somewhere I found a replacement LED flasher relay that was the same size and shape as original but now I can't find it! Any ideas?
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What I'm thinking about ordering to replace ALL turn signal, brake, running and instrument panel bulbs!
What I'm thinking about ordering to replace ALL turn signal, brake, running and instrument panel bulbs!



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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by kndw » Fri May 25, 2018 10:08 am

Had the same idea. I've tried some alibaba ones the rear lights on my vetter fairing. 3/4 worked. They're decently bright and may help reduce the load on the electrical system if you put them elsewhere too.

If you go for expensive ones for in the dash, i would take warm colors and make sure they have a broad angle.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:59 am

kndw wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:08 am
Had the same idea. I've tried some alibaba ones the rear lights on my vetter fairing. 3/4 worked. They're decently bright and may help reduce the load on the electrical system if you put them elsewhere too.

If you go for expensive ones for in the dash, i would take warm colors and make sure they have a broad angle.
Thanks for your input... I went ahead and ordered $70 worth of the BA9s to replace the #53s in the dash/instruments and front fender running lights... and yet I ordered warm color white LEDs per your suggestion and the suggestion of https://www.superbrightleds.com tech support who I called to ask questions... they have a 2 year replacement warranty and a 30 day no hassle return/refund policy! just one more reason I spent the extra money rather then cheeping out and buying from http://ebay.com !

Now if I can just find/figure out which LED blinker relay to order I'll also replace the turn sign bulbs!
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by kndw » Fri May 25, 2018 1:53 pm

You can get universal load-independent blinker relays the size of a matchstick box, with a hole on top to put an M6 bolt through. I've got one of those, and bolted it where the regulator used to be. Works fine.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by Fred Camper » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:37 pm

The BA9 dash leds both improve function and reduce amperage. Win win on those

If you do not want to change out the flasher, there is another way. The front blinkers are running lights and on all the time, so I replaced those with superbright 90 degree leds. But the rear blinkers are not running lights so they only draw power when blinking. If you leave the rear blinkers as incandescent, it costs very little amps but does allow you to keep running the stock flashing unit. Worked out great for me.

If anybody finds a great front led that fits in the stock headlight bucket, let us know the results and what you used. Many great led 7 inch units are too deep for our stock headlight bucket.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:52 pm

Fred Camper wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:37 pm
The BA9 dash leds both improve function and reduce amperage. Win win on those

If you do not want to change out the flasher, there is another way. The front blinkers are running lights and on all the time, so I replaced those with superbright 90 degree leds. But the rear blinkers are not running lights so they only draw power when blinking. If you leave the rear blinkers as incandescent, it costs very little amps but does allow you to keep running the stock flashing unit. Worked out great for me.

If anybody finds a great front led that fits in the stock headlight bucket, let us know the results and what you used. Many great led 7 inch units are too deep for our stock headlight bucket.
Thanks for the info but I have bates hard bags... the lights use 1157s and yes the turn signals (maybe rewired) are running lights and on all the time! I am trying to figure out where to get a replacement LED flasher! Any help on where to get one would be great.
I ordered this one: https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... r/781/835/ from SperBrightLEDs.com but it didn't work... it did the same thing as the original (turn signals lights just stayed lite solid when on) I expected it to do a rapid flash and wonder why it didn't? I have already ordered the LED replacement bulbs... red 1157's and Amber 1157s for my front and rear turn signals!

Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:58 pm

I was thinking about ordering this one: https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... e/787/842/ but don't know how to wire it in? Any help / ideas?

The bottom of the original flasher has an L and a X but I don't know which is +12volts and which is the load to the bulbs? I assume the L is for load but don't know... can anyone confirm that?
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original flasher
original flasher


original flasher
original flasher

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by AZgl1800 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:23 am

You need to keep in mind, that as long as your bike has the OEM STATOR on it,

replacing filament bulbs with LEDs will put more stress on the Voltage Regulator.
that is because a STATOR runs at full maximum output all the time, RPM determines how much output.

so, you need to offset the loss of load somehow to prevent over stressing the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier unit.

If you go Poor Boy alternator, then it don't matter as the alternator is self regulating.
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:01 am

swr1977 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:58 pm
I was thinking about ordering this one: https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... e/787/842/ but don't know how to wire it in? Any help / ideas?

The bottom of the original flasher has an L and a X but I don't know which is +12volts and which is the load to the bulbs? I assume the L is for load but don't know... can anyone confirm that?
That's not the original flasher. There are only 2 wires and it doesn't matter which one connects where. And I'll ditto the bad for the regulator.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:16 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:23 am
You need to keep in mind, that as long as your bike has the OEM STATOR on it,

replacing filament bulbs with LEDs will put more stress on the Voltage Regulator.
that is because a STATOR runs at full maximum output all the time, RPM determines how much output.

so, you need to offset the loss of load somehow to prevent over stressing the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier unit.

If you go Poor Boy alternator, then it don't matter as the alternator is self regulating.
hmm... how do I tell if I have an OEM Stator? Where is it located and what does it look like? The PO did some modifications and I am doing a few more mods. Need the bike to be reliable because in the summer it's an every day rider!
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:18 am

DaveO430 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:01 am
swr1977 wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:58 pm
I was thinking about ordering this one: https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... e/787/842/ but don't know how to wire it in? Any help / ideas?

The bottom of the original flasher has an L and a X but I don't know which is +12volts and which is the load to the bulbs? I assume the L is for load but don't know... can anyone confirm that?
That's not the original flasher. There are only 2 wires and it doesn't matter which one connects where. And I'll ditto the bad for the regulator.
So can I replace what I thought was the origial flasher with the one from the link above and will it work? Or do you know where I can get a LED flasher that will work in my GL1000?
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by AZgl1800 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:00 pm

swr1977 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:16 am
AZgl1800 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:23 am
You need to keep in mind, that as long as your bike has the OEM STATOR on it,

replacing filament bulbs with LEDs will put more stress on the Voltage Regulator.
that is because a STATOR runs at full maximum output all the time, RPM determines how much output.

so, you need to offset the loss of load somehow to prevent over stressing the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier unit.

If you go Poor Boy alternator, then it don't matter as the alternator is self regulating.


hmm... how do I tell if I have an OEM Stator? Where is it located and what does it look like? The PO did some modifications and I am doing a few more mods. Need the bike to be reliable because in the summer it's an every day rider!

If the bike does NOT have a Poor Boy style alternator, it must have a STATOR doing the Charging service.
Location: in the rear of the engine out of sight.

In this case, you must account for the loss of current load if you replace the filament bulbs with LEDs.

It is better to add MORE light load, than it is to remove light loading.... ( to a point, keep the battery charging ) STATORS want to push current and they will, forcing the Voltage Regulator to Absorb the load not used by lighting.
~John

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by kndw » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:27 pm

Does this stator/load issue persist if you have installed a modern regulator/recrifier unit?

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm

kndw wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:27 pm
Does this stator/load issue persist if you have installed a modern regulator/recrifier unit?
Yes.

A modern alternator has a field winding, which spins relative to the stator coils. The integrated voltage regulator that is part of the alternator automatically varies the amount of current flowing through the field winding (which acts as an electromagnet). This alters the amount of current being produced in the stator coils. This way, the alternator can automatically produce the correct amount of power regardless of the speed it is rotated.

The OEM stator on the other hand, spins a set of permanent magnets inside the stator coils instead of a set of windings. You can't control the amount of magnetism being produced by permanent magnets, so the stator produces a set amount of power, that is determined entirely by the speed the magnets are rotated.

So to compensate, the regulator/rectifier dumps (shunts) part of that current to ground - whatever isn't needed to run the bike and charge the battery. This creates heat, a lot of it. The less power being used by the bike, the more power has to be shunted to ground by the regulator/rectifier. It doesn't matter whether it is an old transistorized unit or a newer MOSFET unit, they both still have to get rid of the current. You can't just get rid of energy, you have to convert it to a different form of energy (or stored potential energy) so it is converted to heat.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by kndw » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:43 am

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm
kndw wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:27 pm
Does this stator/load issue persist if you have installed a modern regulator/recrifier unit?
Yes.

A modern alternator has a field winding, which spins relative to the stator coils. The integrated voltage regulator that is part of the alternator automatically varies the amount of current flowing through the field winding (which acts as an electromagnet). This alters the amount of current being produced in the stator coils. This way, the alternator can automatically produce the correct amount of power regardless of the speed it is rotated.

The OEM stator on the other hand, spins a set of permanent magnets inside the stator coils instead of a set of windings. You can't control the amount of magnetism being produced by permanent magnets, so the stator produces a set amount of power, that is determined entirely by the speed the magnets are rotated.

So to compensate, the regulator/rectifier dumps (shunts) part of that current to ground - whatever isn't needed to run the bike and charge the battery. This creates heat, a lot of it. The less power being used by the bike, the more power has to be shunted to ground by the regulator/rectifier. It doesn't matter whether it is an old transistorized unit or a newer MOSFET unit, they both still have to get rid of the current. You can't just get rid of energy, you have to convert it to a different form of energy (or stored potential energy) so it is converted to heat.
Great explanation, thanks!

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by DenverWinger » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:54 am

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm
It doesn't matter whether it is an old transistorized unit or a newer MOSFET unit, they both still have to get rid of the current. You can't just get rid of energy, you have to convert it to a different form of energy (or stored potential energy) so it is converted to heat.
Have you looked into the new "Series" regulators? Where most regulators shunt excess current to ground these instead are supposed to pass to the bike only the current needed to maintain voltage, shunting nothing to ground. I haven't seen any schematics....

These would be the reverse of a shunt regulator, generating more heat as more current required by the bike. Also, since they are blocking excess power from the alternator, under light load you could see significantly higher voltages on the alternator/rectifier side of the regulator..... but it would result in lighter loads on the stator.
They say 98% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road..... The other 2% made it home. :lol:
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:50 pm

AZgl1800 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:00 pm
swr1977 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:16 am
AZgl1800 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:23 am
You need to keep in mind, that as long as your bike has the OEM STATOR on it,
replacing filament bulbs with LEDs will put more stress on the Voltage Regulator.
that is because a STATOR runs at full maximum output all the time, RPM determines how much output.
so, you need to offset the loss of load somehow to prevent over stressing the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier unit.
If you go Poor Boy alternator, then it don't matter as the alternator is self regulating.
hmm... how do I tell if I have an OEM Stator? Where is it located and what does it look like? The PO did some modifications and I am doing a few more mods. Need the bike to be reliable because in the summer it's an every day rider!
If the bike does NOT have a Poor Boy style alternator, it must have a STATOR doing the Charging service.
Location: in the rear of the engine out of sight.
In this case, you must account for the loss of current load if you replace the filament bulbs with LEDs.
It is better to add MORE light load, than it is to remove light loading.... ( to a point, keep the battery charging ) STATORS want to push current and they will, forcing the Voltage Regulator to Absorb the load not used by lighting.

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm
kndw wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:27 pm
Does this stator/load issue persist if you have installed a modern regulator/recrifier unit?
Yes.

A modern alternator has a field winding, which spins relative to the stator coils. The integrated voltage regulator that is part of the alternator automatically varies the amount of current flowing through the field winding (which acts as an electromagnet). This alters the amount of current being produced in the stator coils. This way, the alternator can automatically produce the correct amount of power regardless of the speed it is rotated.
The OEM stator on the other hand, spins a set of permanent magnets inside the stator coils instead of a set of windings. You can't control the amount of magnetism being produced by permanent magnets, so the stator produces a set amount of power, that is determined entirely by the speed the magnets are rotated.
So to compensate, the regulator/rectifier dumps (shunts) part of that current to ground - whatever isn't needed to run the bike and charge the battery. This creates heat, a lot of it. The less power being used by the bike, the more power has to be shunted to ground by the regulator/rectifier. It doesn't matter whether it is an old transistorized unit or a newer MOSFET unit, they both still have to get rid of the current. You can't just get rid of energy, you have to convert it to a different form of energy (or stored potential energy) so it is converted to heat.
Thanks WingAdmin & AZgl1800 for explaining this to me. I think I already have some sort of a charging problem as when I got home from a 40-50 mile ride today my battery was dead... I knew something was wrong when my volt gauge was reading 8-10 volts most of the way home. I have not yet replaced the turn signal bulbs with LED's! and I have noticed the voltage gauge reading low on the past few short rides but never down in the red where it was today!

WingAdmin... What do you suggest I check / replace first? Is there anyway to check the rectifier? or the voltage regulators? I think there are two regulators on the GL1000 a 12 volt mounted next to my electronic ignition module and a 7 volt mounted with the temp/fuel/volt gauges.

Also I was thinking about checking the three yellow wires coming from the back of the motor going into the rectifier. Do these come from the stator? Is there any way to check them with a volt meter perhaps while the bike is running? If so how and what / how much voltage should I get from each?

See pictures! ... none of these were taken today... I did some work on the bike this last winter... had to remove the engine to fix a slipping starter clutch and the three yellow wires were cut and then spliced back together with quick discos!
Attachments

I think this is the rectifier... I've had to fix burnt wire here before!
I think this is the rectifier... I've had to fix burnt wire here before!


yellow wires coming from back of motor
yellow wires coming from back of motor


7 volt regulator
7 volt regulator


12 volt regulator
12 volt regulator

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by WingAdmin » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:46 am

Make sure the disconnects you put on the yellow wires are CLEAN - any contamination in there will generate heat, which will cause more oxidation, more resistance, more heat, until it melts.

First thing to check is whether or not the stator is putting out enough power.

Disconnect the three yellow wires, switch your meter to AC, not DC.

Start the bike up and have an assistant hold the RPM at a steady speed, say 2,000 rpm.

Measure across each pair of yellow wires, one probe on each yellow wire - first 1-2, then 2-3, then 3-1. Be very careful, as there are potentially LETHAL voltages on those yellow wires when the engine is running. Do not touch the wires with your fingers! You should see very similar voltages from each pair, and they should be no less than 48 VAC.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:00 am

I think I found the problem! I think rather then using the quick disconnects I'll switch back to what the PO used (butt connectors)

WingAdmin... I will run your test after I get this fixed just to make sure the stator is working correctly.
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by WingAdmin » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:46 pm

Do not use butt connectors on a bike!!! Those are meant for house wiring, primarily for solid conductors. They're intended to be used on wiring that does not move, heat up, is not subject to vibration...you get the idea. They're about the worst thing you can use on a bike, as they loosen over time, are open to the air, allow corrosion from oxidation...basically don't use them.

The absolute best way to fix this and know that you're not going to have to deal with it again is to SOLDER the wires together, and cover them with heat shrink tubing. They will never fail again after that.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:46 pm
Do not use butt connectors on a bike!!! Those are meant for house wiring, primarily for solid conductors. They're intended to be used on wiring that does not move, heat up, is not subject to vibration...you get the idea. They're about the worst thing you can use on a bike, as they loosen over time, are open to the air, allow corrosion from oxidation...basically don't use them.

The absolute best way to fix this and know that you're not going to have to deal with it again is to SOLDER the wires together, and cover them with heat shrink tubing. They will never fail again after that.
Thanks WingAdmin for your help sorting this problem out!

Now that it's fixed I'm back to trying to get the LED bulbs I purchased to work as blinkers... I've purchased the following Electronic LED Flasher Relay and LED Marker Lamp Load Resistor Kit in hopes of using one or both....

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... e/787/842/

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... x/191/832/

Could you or anyone help me figure out how & where to wire them into the system?

Can I just replace the existing flasher with this one?

I'm not sure which side of the original flasher wiring comes from switch and which goes to the bulbs? X or L Looking at the wiring diagram I just go cross-eyed!

Please someone HELP!
Attachments

bottom of flasher relay
bottom of flasher relay


GL1000 Wiring Schematic
GL1000 Wiring Schematic


flasher relay
flasher relay


where flasher relay is locate on left side of false tank
where flasher relay is locate on left side of false tank

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by DaveO430 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:08 pm

swr1977 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 pm

Can I just replace the existing flasher with this one?

I'm not sure which side of the original flasher wiring comes from switch and which goes to the bulbs? X or L Looking at the wiring diagram I just go cross-eyed!

Please someone HELP!
Yes, just replace the flasher, doesn't matter which wire connects where, and if it didn't work you could just switch them.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:50 pm

On flashers, X is connected to +12V, and L (load) is connected to the bulbs.

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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:01 pm

Thanks... I did manage to change the flasher unit with the new electronic LED flasher relay (link above) and replaced the original bulbs with LED bulbs ... then I figured out if I wired the LED light load resistor to the load side of the relay the turn signals now flash rather then just stay on!

Now my turn signal buzzer/clicker doesn't work anymore! Could that be because there isn't enough resistance? Do I need to use a high ohm load resistor?
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Re: Replacing Origial Bulbs with LEDs

Post by swr1977 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:10 am

swr1977 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:01 pm

Now my turn signal buzzer/clicker doesn't work anymore! Could that be because there isn't enough resistance? Do I need to use a higher ohm load resistor?
I didn't have a chance to figure out how to make the turn signal buzzer/clicker work before it started working nonstop, unless the bike is at idle, even when the turn signal switch is off it's making a buzz or click depending on how fast I'm going! Any suggestions on what is wrong and how to fix it?


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