GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)


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terryt
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by terryt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:17 am



Have you checked the coils - ballast resister and the wiring. a coil could be going to earth



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hansolo8
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by hansolo8 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:26 pm

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:00 am
I'm kinda leaning toward agreement with Flyday's idea...

Does the exhaust smell rich with engine idling? If not, I'd try screwing out the four idle mixture adjustments a half-turn each and see what that does. If you turn them exactly a half-turn, you could always put them back, or try a full turn, too.
The gas smell is pretty strong in the exhaust. So this may not be it

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flyday58
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by flyday58 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:40 pm

I'll still lean toward the carbs. One thing pointed out in the article I linked (or one on the same site) is that oftentimes the idle speed screw will get turned in to compensate for a less-than-ideal idle system. You are then bringing the main fuel system on-line because the throttle butterflies are opened more trying to get a good idle. You end up with floating idle speeds, slow returns to idle, and similar issues which also can resemble air leaks and lean running. I suspect another issue is the dying you are experiencing. It would account for smelling gas if it's overly rich at idle. How do the plugs look?
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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:31 pm

I'm wondering if a dodgy clutch switch could be causing your problems ??

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flyday58
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by flyday58 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Aussie81Interstate wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:31 pm
I'm wondering if a dodgy clutch switch could be causing your problems ??
I was wondering the same thing...
"Who left the fridge open?" Tug Speedman

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DenverWinger
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by DenverWinger » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:28 pm

Dodgy clutch switch wouldn't affect the ignition, just prevent the starter button from doing anything.

Back to the carbs, if smelling plenty gassy, try turning the idle mixture screws IN a half-turn instead of out.... In first post he did mention carbs rebuilt by shop, so most likely are in reasonable balance, maybe just overly rich idle.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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hansolo8
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by hansolo8 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:39 pm

flyday58 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:40 pm
I'll still lean toward the carbs. One thing pointed out in the article I linked (or one on the same site) is that oftentimes the idle speed screw will get turned in to compensate for a less-than-ideal idle system. You are then bringing the main fuel system on-line because the throttle butterflies are opened more trying to get a good idle. You end up with floating idle speeds, slow returns to idle, and similar issues which also can resemble air leaks and lean running. I suspect another issue is the dying you are experiencing. It would account for smelling gas if it's overly rich at idle. How do the plugs look?
Plugs are fine. When the shop re-did the carb and installed the Dyna-S ignition, the plugs were removed and cleaned. I also checked myself and it's good color. Not too white and not too black.

The problem that you described above such as slow return to idle or floating idle speeds do not happen. It was a problem before I took it to the shop and got the carbs rebuilt and ignitions replaced, but it is no longer an issue. Except for these random dying, my bike currently does not have any of these weird idle issue that not-maintained GL1000s have.

When I was having these problems, I kinda knew that the bike was gonna die when it was about to die from looking at the erratic behaviors of the bike. But now, when it doesn't die, it runs perfectly. It's the smoothest bike I have ever ridden and it sounds really nice when it idles at 900 RPM in neutral.
There is some gas smell but only when I apply the choke to warm it up. This is what's so frustrating now, I can't even tell when it will die.

But I'll try what you say though. It does seem to be getting terrible MPG. I get about 20 miles per gallon. So it is possible it's getting more gas in idle. I would have to turn all four screws right?

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DenverWinger
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by DenverWinger » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:36 am

hansolo8 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:39 pm
But now, when it doesn't die, it runs perfectly. It's the smoothest bike I have ever ridden and it sounds really nice when it idles at 900 RPM in neutral.
There is some gas smell but only when I apply the choke to warm it up. This is what's so frustrating now, I can't even tell when it will die.

But I'll try what you say though. It does seem to be getting terrible MPG. I get about 20 miles per gallon. So it is possible it's getting more gas in idle. I would have to turn all four screws right?
Yes, all four screws, be sure to turn them an exact amount, so you can put them back where the shop had them. Try both a half-turn in, and a half-turn out. But based on some other statements there's something else going on here, that bike should get 40 MPG all day long, and no amount of idle misadjustment would cause mileage that low. Slides sticking open, maybe?
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by cfairweather » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:35 am

Ask the shop if they replaced the plenum seals (between the plenum halves). If so, ask them if they tested for gas/air leaks after they replaced the seals. Also ask them if they pressure tested the float valves and checked the level of the gasoline in the float bowls after the rebuild job was complete. I always use an electric fuel pump and four clear tubes attached to the carb bowls which will reveal the actual level of the gasoline. If they didn't replace the plenum seals, you need to do this. Please do this simple test: Remove the air filter cover and look down intake to see if you see any gasoline at the bottom. If not, try to make the problem occur while looking in the intake. The gasoline may only may only appear briefly, but if you see any, the problem is the plenum seals or possibly a stuck float valve. If the plenum is not dry, you will have to remove the carbs to fix the issue. Faulty plenum seals would also help explain the poor gas mileage.

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terryt
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by terryt » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:43 pm

If the carbs or a carb is flooding some of the unburnt fuel will end up mixed with the engine oil. remove the oil filler screw cap and see if there is any trace of petrol by sniffing around the oil fill hole.

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goldwingingit
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by goldwingingit » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:06 pm

You have to first assume that the mechanic is competent and knew what they were doing. These carbs are a real nightmare, one of the most difficult I've come across on a motorcycle. If he set the static timing, too, then you have to assume that he knew what he was doing. At the very least, he probably knows better than you so for now, just consider looking elsewhere. You have checked the plugs and they seem good. There is a technique to check the plugs at various throttle intervals, so you know if you are running rich or lean in all conditions, but if they are generally good, let's assume the carbs are good. For the points, I half-assedly set my points in a rush. The bike went from non-running to running, so I don't think the points are the problem either. Yes, an electric ignition is a very worthy upgrade, however don't just throw parts at the problem hoping to fix it.

It seems that you have difficult reproducing the problem. It doesn't seem to be the clutch, we have to assume (for now) that the carbs are good. Here are some things that jumped out at me while reading this thread - all of which are easy fixes:

1. You mentioned it happens when you brake, maybe there a loose connection somewhere (ground?) and the shift in weight causes it to disconnect? Have you tightened down connections to the battery and other ground points?

2. I think you might be facing a fuel delivery issue. It could be that the fuel pump is on its way out (which would explain why the problem is intermittent and difficult to replicate). I think these fuel pumps can be rebuilt and sometimes they just need to be cleaned. I don't believe this is an expensive part at all. While you're at it, how do the fuel filters look? Have they been replaced anytime in the past decade? These gas tanks are notorious for rusting out at the very bottom, so perhaps there is some fine rust floating around that occasionally blocks things up? Although it's a long shot it is a possibility and your fuel filters will tell you.

2a. Even though these bikes have fuel pumps, I believe that the gas tank still needs to vent air to allow fuel to keep flowing. On some bikes this is done at/by the gas cap. I'm not sure but I think on the GL1000 there are hoses that connect to the fuel tank that allow for this. Either way, it is possible the gas tank is blocked at some point and doesn't allow fuel to flow evenly and consistently. Maybe other members can chime in here?

3. Check your ignition coils. There is a detailed way to do this in the FSM, and heat can effect them. All you need is a multimeter and some patience. They can be pricey to replace but it will be worth knowing that they are good. If they're bad, thats probably the problem. If they're good, keep looking.

4. How is your cable routing? When the bike is at a standstill (better yet, running and on the center stand) is there any difference in the idle when you move the bars left and right? You mentioned that it stalls when you turn left into your apartment. Could be that the cables are not properly routed and the idle were set when they were pinched. While the mechanic may have adjusted the carbs properly, it's possible he didn't route the cables properly!

5. I believe GL1000s came with a crankcase breather that, according to the FSM, has to occasionally be emptied. Would it effect the bike's performance to this degree? I'm not sure, but I can't think of anything else for now.

Please keep us posted!

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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by hansolo8 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:06 am

goldwingingit wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:06 pm
You have to first assume that the mechanic is competent and knew what they were doing. These carbs are a real nightmare, one of the most difficult I've come across on a motorcycle. If he set the static timing, too, then you have to assume that he knew what he was doing. At the very least, he probably knows better than you so for now, just consider looking elsewhere. You have checked the plugs and they seem good. There is a technique to check the plugs at various throttle intervals, so you know if you are running rich or lean in all conditions, but if they are generally good, let's assume the carbs are good. For the points, I half-assedly set my points in a rush. The bike went from non-running to running, so I don't think the points are the problem either. Yes, an electric ignition is a very worthy upgrade, however don't just throw parts at the problem hoping to fix it.

It seems that you have difficult reproducing the problem. It doesn't seem to be the clutch, we have to assume (for now) that the carbs are good. Here are some things that jumped out at me while reading this thread - all of which are easy fixes:

1. You mentioned it happens when you brake, maybe there a loose connection somewhere (ground?) and the shift in weight causes it to disconnect? Have you tightened down connections to the battery and other ground points?

2. I think you might be facing a fuel delivery issue. It could be that the fuel pump is on its way out (which would explain why the problem is intermittent and difficult to replicate). I think these fuel pumps can be rebuilt and sometimes they just need to be cleaned. I don't believe this is an expensive part at all. While you're at it, how do the fuel filters look? Have they been replaced anytime in the past decade? These gas tanks are notorious for rusting out at the very bottom, so perhaps there is some fine rust floating around that occasionally blocks things up? Although it's a long shot it is a possibility and your fuel filters will tell you.

2a. Even though these bikes have fuel pumps, I believe that the gas tank still needs to vent air to allow fuel to keep flowing. On some bikes this is done at/by the gas cap. I'm not sure but I think on the GL1000 there are hoses that connect to the fuel tank that allow for this. Either way, it is possible the gas tank is blocked at some point and doesn't allow fuel to flow evenly and consistently. Maybe other members can chime in here?

3. Check your ignition coils. There is a detailed way to do this in the FSM, and heat can effect them. All you need is a multimeter and some patience. They can be pricey to replace but it will be worth knowing that they are good. If they're bad, thats probably the problem. If they're good, keep looking.

4. How is your cable routing? When the bike is at a standstill (better yet, running and on the center stand) is there any difference in the idle when you move the bars left and right? You mentioned that it stalls when you turn left into your apartment. Could be that the cables are not properly routed and the idle were set when they were pinched. While the mechanic may have adjusted the carbs properly, it's possible he didn't route the cables properly!

5. I believe GL1000s came with a crankcase breather that, according to the FSM, has to occasionally be emptied. Would it effect the bike's performance to this degree? I'm not sure, but I can't think of anything else for now.

Please keep us posted!
Thank you so much for all your detailed suggestion.
I found the main culprit. And it was the 30A fuse.
At one point, the problem became so bad that the bike started to stall every stoplight.
The shop held onto it for a week and told me they could not get it to stall, which I found really weird because it stalled at every traffic light I hit.
Anyways, this is what I found when I decided to work on it myself.
Either the P/O himself or the P/O's mechanic put the washer underneath the fuse instead of underneath the screw caps then screwed the fuse in.
So the screws were digging into the fuse almost destroying it.
Also, the fuse box was in a pretty bad shape and fell from the holding bracket and was sitting pretty close to the exhaust pipe.
So the fuse box was getting pretty warm everytime bike hit the operating temperature.
When I took the fuse out from the fuse holder, the "wrench looking" part of the fuse was spread out so wide, I could see how a little heat could lead to poor connections
I straightened the fuse out with the pliers, cleaned the corrosion in the fuse wire leads and put the 30A fuse back in. Rode it for 40 min and no stall!!!!
I rode it for another two days and confirmed no stalling in rides longer than 30 min.
So I bought an automotive 30A blade fuse holder and the fuse, cut the original wires and stripped it and then put the fuse holder in with crimpers.
No stalling for a week!
But now that the main stalling problem is gone, I start to see some bugs in the fuel delivery.
I'll mess with the idle mixture screws and keep posting on the progress

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goldwingingit
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by goldwingingit » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:52 am

Hahaha! Wow! What an interesting problem and solution. I didn't think it could be the fuses!

Congrats on finding it, that was a good catch.

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DenverWinger
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1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
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Re: GL1000 engine shutting down at lower speeds (while running warm)

Post by DenverWinger » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:59 am

Sounds like the fuse was going open-circuit and the bike was running on alternator power alone, at low revs not enuf alternator output to power the ignition!


♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

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