No spark cylinder 1 and 2


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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Nate1994
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Motorcycle: 1976 Honda GL 1000

No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »



Ok so I have a 1976 Honda Gl1000 and I only have spark on 3/4, no spark on 1/2. I have new spark plugs, spark plug caps, fuse battery, and solenoid. Both coils read in the normal range. When I switch the wires 1/2 sparks. So what is casusing this?


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Maz
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1976 CB500T
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Maz »

You have lost the Ignition 12v feed to one coil. I would suggest carefully working back from the coils, checking every connection along the way. The 12v feed (b/w wire) just splits in two to feed both coils quite close to the coils using a double bullet connector. Check this one first.
Maz
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DaveO430
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by DaveO430 »

Nate1994 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:53 pm Ok so I have a 1976 Honda Gl1000 and I only have spark on 3/4, no spark on 1/2. I have new spark plugs, spark plug caps, fuse battery, and solenoid. Both coils read in the normal range. When I switch the wires 1/2 sparks. So what is casusing this?
Which wires are you switching?
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DenverWinger
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by DenverWinger »

On another thread Nate states he has "Dyna" aftermarket electronic ignition installed.

I'm not familiar with the Dyna, but in electronic ignition there will essentially be TWO ignition systems, one for Cyl 1 & 2, the other for Cyl 3 & 4, each system consisting of a sensor (pickup coil or hall effect) on the end of the camshaft where the points would be, and a circuit in the control box which takes the trigger pulse from the sensor and fires the ignition coil.

First thing I'd do is go over all the connections for the Dyna system to be sure nothing loose or corroded.

Since both coils test good, the fault would have to be in the sensor or firing circuit for cyl 1 & 2, or any of the wiring between the sensor, firing circuit or the coil.

See if you can swap the trigger pulse connections for the camshaft sensors, if cyl 3 & 4 start sparking that would indicate the problem is in the cam sensor for 1 & 2. If no change, then the firing circuit for 1 & 2 or a wiring connection is suspect.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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Maz
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Maz »

DenverWinger wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:28 am On another thread Nate states he has "Dyna" aftermarket electronic ignition installed.

I'm not familiar with the Dyna, but in electronic ignition there will essentially be TWO ignition systems, one for Cyl 1 & 2, the other for Cyl 3 & 4, each system consisting of a sensor (pickup coil or hall effect) on the end of the camshaft where the points would be, and a circuit in the control box which takes the trigger pulse from the sensor and fires the ignition coil.

First thing I'd do is go over all the connections for the Dyna system to be sure nothing loose or corroded.

Since both coils test good, the fault would have to be in the sensor or firing circuit for cyl 1 & 2, or any of the wiring between the sensor, firing circuit or the coil.

See if you can swap the trigger pulse connections for the camshaft sensors, if cyl 3 & 4 start sparking that would indicate the problem is in the cam sensor for 1 & 2. If no change, then the firing circuit for 1 & 2 or a wiring connection is suspect.
With points there are 2 separate systems also. The points switch ground separately to each coil, whilst the 12v feed is common to both.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but electronic ignition does exactly the same, but with electronically triggered (magnetic or optical) switches in place of the points.
Maz
Ironically, Common Sense is the LEAST common of all senses!
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DenverWinger
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by DenverWinger »

Yup - That's correct.... With points you also have the condenser, which along with the coil sets up a brief high frequency oscillation when the points open, aiding to make a good spark.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

Ok thank you! I will check all of the wires and try it see if I can find anything. Could this be a sign the the electronic ignition is going out?
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dingdong
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by dingdong »

Nate1994 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:05 pm Ok thank you! I will check all of the wires and try it see if I can find anything. Could this be a sign the the electronic ignition is going out?

Common problem with Dyna ignitions. Not going out but GONE out on one module.
Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

Is there anyway to test the ignition to know if it’s going out?
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dingdong
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by dingdong »

Dynatek pdf files for installing and testing.

http://www.dynaonline.com/support/downl ... v=DYNA%20S
Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

Ok all my connections are good! But still no spark. I have two pictures of things conected to the ignition what are they? And also the directions were not clear so I’m not 100% sure on how to test the ignition. Also can the ballast restor cause a no spark on one coil because it’s really hot?
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Maz
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Maz »

Not sure about the first picture, but the second one is the flasher unit. The blue 'scotchlock' connector has been used to tap off 12v ignition feed. These connectors are notoriously unreliable. Do yourself a favour and remove any that you find and replace with a solder joint.
The ballast resistor is designed to get very hot. It's a very small resistance so it has a high current flowing through it. Also, it should be common to the 12v feed to both coils, so wouldn't cause one to stop working.
Maz
Ironically, Common Sense is the LEAST common of all senses!
Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

Honestly I’m bebating Puting the points system back on the bike.
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ekvh
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by ekvh »

There is no longer any such thing as “good” points available for these anymore, they are all short lived, fast wearing compared to what the bike came with. If you do not have the cam lobe that operates the points, that will be an additional cost. (It is removed when converting to Dyna.)

Dyna has a great record but have had a few failures recently and -just speculation-I think they were aware of the problem because they have made the newer versions more solid state.

You can send them in for testing, it’s free. Unfortunately it takes a few weeks. If found defective they are pretty good to offer you a new system at cost, about half of retail. $75-$80.

To answer one question, the ballast not working wouldn’t take out just one coil.

It’s really a pain to fish all the wires out, but I will suggest checking the male-female bullet connectors everywhere in the ignition system. They can be loose fitting and drop out.

I know of more than one case where you could carefully touch the black plastic cover of the offending pickup in the ignition housing and the bike would suddenly run. It’s worth a try, just keep your fingers out of the moving parts. It will at least tell you your issue.
Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

What does the cam lobe look like? I think I have everything to take it back to points but I want to make sure. Honestly I just don’t want to drop 150.00 on a new electric ignition. The bike was running and now I’m about to sell it as parts.
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ekvh
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by ekvh »

These pics are from octanes instructions at NGW. Second pic shows what you need.


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Nate1994
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Nate1994 »

Awesome thank you! It looks like I have everything. Hopefully I’ll be able to make the switch next week and have it up and running!
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Maz
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by Maz »

For what it's worth, I had Dyna on my '75 when I purchased it and it failed shortly after (2 cylinders stopped firing). I changed to a Newtronics system, which lasted 6 months before similar happened, although it would start working if I removed the points cover and touched one of the sensors!
I then converted back to points and have had no problems since (two years so far).

Maz
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DenverWinger
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by DenverWinger »

Anybody ever try using GL1100 ignition modules with the Dyna pickups? Might work if the Dyna's are coils and not Hall effect... This assumes it's the Dyna Module and not the pickup that failed.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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ekvh
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Re: No spark cylinder 1 and 2

Post by ekvh »

Just keep the cotton(?) lightly greased to make the points rubbing blocks last longer. I think that’s what tends to wear faster on the newer points.

Also see if you have the ballast resistor still in place. Its job is to give higher voltage when you press the starter button and drop to 6-7 volts when running to prolong the life of the points.


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