75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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Magonsterz!
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75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »



Finally got her back together, start, stops, idles, cools and drives geart under normal driving, spot on.

Seems to be slipping but only at higher RPM's (7-8k ish). This is of course under hard acceleration and most often happens in third and fourth gears...but only toward the end of the range for the gear...in other words it happens just about the time I'm ready to shift up.

It seems like the clutch would be most likely to slip when first engaged in a gear...not when I'm almost out of it and it's been pulling hard (and fully engaged).

Slipping clutch at 7k while under full throttle acceleration in all gears except 1st.

Handle bar shift is butter smooth, lever has about 3/8 to 1/2 in slack, shifts through all gears with no prob up and down, cable is smooth and free of hang ups.



If I roll out hard in 1st, no problem.

Speed shift into 2nd and just stays at 7k for a sec then slips all up to 8k, winding out but not speeding up but if i stay in it eventually feels like starts to bite and pulls while pegged at 8k.



If i roll through 1st to 5th normally AND briskly BUT NOT speed shifting, zero issues, rolled out nice and swiftly.



Is my clutch wearing out or is this something else?

Any ideas what cause may be? Using fresh 15w40 Rotella conventional oil.

Going to drop rear cable to shift lever cover, reset throw to 5/8 slack/travel but seriously dont think it will help.


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DenverWinger
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by DenverWinger »

Hmmm, good description, sounds like good clutch adjustment, does sound like a clutch slip, but the odd thing is why it would slip only at the top end of RPM range. GW motor doesn't have the torque peaks at the top end like some of the other bikes. My old GS-550 Suzuki didn't really have any power to speak of until you hit 5000 RPM then look out! (12k redline on it, though, if I recall)

I use 5w40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel synth oil. Look for "JASO-MA" or "JASO-MA2" certification, or the SAE "Donut" logo on the back of the jug where the bottom half of the doughnut is blank and doesn't say anything about friction modifiers. Shell Rotella oil is very good, but I'm not familiar with the 15w40 "dino" flavor and it may have friction modifiers.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
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Magonsterz!
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

DenverWinger wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:00 am Hmmm, good description, sounds like good clutch adjustment, does sound like a clutch slip, but the odd thing is why it would slip only at the top end of RPM range. GW motor doesn't have the torque peaks at the top end like some of the other bikes. My old GS-550 Suzuki didn't really have any power to speak of until you hit 5000 RPM then look out! (12k redline on it, though, if I recall)

I use 5w40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel synth oil. Look for "JASO-MA" or "JASO-MA2" certification, or the SAE "Donut" logo on the back of the jug where the bottom half of the doughnut is blank and doesn't say anything about friction modifiers. Shell Rotella oil is very good, but I'm not familiar with the 15w40 "dino" flavor and it may have friction modifiers.
so just read jug and lower half of donut has "CI-4" instead of being blank, looks like ill have to drain, swap filters and refill will recommended 5w40 zero additives conventional?
?5w40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel synth oil? Thought synthetic was bad news on clutches.

website says 15w40 conventional has the following:
"CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4; ACEA E9; JASO DH-2, MA, MA2; Caterpillar ECF-2, ECF-3; Cummins CES 20086, 81; Detroit Fluids Specification (DFS) 93K222, 93K218; Deutz DQC III-10 LA; MACK EO-S 4.5, EO-O Premium Plus; MAN M3575; MB-Approval 228.31; MTU Category 2.1; Allison TES-439; Volvo VDS-4.5, VDS-4, Ford WSS-M2C171-F1"
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DenverWinger
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by DenverWinger »

Magonsterz! wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:58 am
so just read jug and lower half of donut has "CI-4" instead of being blank, looks like ill have to drain, swap filters and refill will recommended 5w40 zero additives conventional?
?5w40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel synth oil? Thought synthetic was bad news on clutches.
Without starting "Yet Another Dreaded Oil Thread" :roll: :roll: I'd comment that at least half of the members here are using synthetic of various brands and viscosities without any ill effects to the clutch. My 1500 has been run on synthetic oil by the original owner and myself its entire life.

Any good oil of any brand, conventional or synthetic, will be perfectly acceptable with a wet clutch. This provided the most important detail is strictly adhered to: NO FRICTION MODIFIERS! :shock:

I read the comments on the other forum, and agree, changing out the oil with a Seafoam treatment is recommended, and also to check the adjustments in the clutch housing. That adjustment may be too tight. But since the Rotella flavor in the engine now does show friction modifiers, it is most likely a contributing factor.

Just another comment, not much use posting a duplicate question on both forums as 3/4 of the regular participant members visit BOTH forums all the time... :D
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Magonsterz!
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

DenverWinger wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:23 am
Magonsterz! wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:58 am
so just read jug and lower half of donut has "CI-4" instead of being blank, looks like ill have to drain, swap filters and refill will recommended 5w40 zero additives conventional?
?5w40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel synth oil? Thought synthetic was bad news on clutches.
Without starting "Yet Another Dreaded Oil Thread" :roll: :roll: I'd comment that at least half of the members here are using synthetic of various brands and viscosities without any ill effects to the clutch. My 1500 has been run on synthetic oil by the original owner and myself its entire life.

Any good oil of any brand, conventional or synthetic, will be perfectly acceptable with a wet clutch. This provided the most important detail is strictly adhered to: NO FRICTION MODIFIERS! :shock:

I read the comments on the other forum, and agree, changing out the oil with a Seafoam treatment is recommended, and also to check the adjustments in the clutch housing. That adjustment may be too tight. But since the Rotella flavor in the engine now does show friction modifiers, it is most likely a contributing factor.

Just another comment, not much use posting a duplicate question on both forums as 3/4 of the regular participant members visit BOTH forums all the time... :D
copy that on all accounts, shot myself in the foot with wrong oil, hope she cleans out. much appreciated.
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Magonsterz!
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

Without starting "Yet Another Dreaded Oil Thread" :roll: :roll: I'd comment that at least half of the members here are using synthetic of various brands and viscosities without any ill effects to the clutch. My 1500 has been run on synthetic oil by the original owner and myself its entire life.

Any good oil of any brand, conventional or synthetic, will be perfectly acceptable with a wet clutch. This provided the most important detail is strictly adhered to: NO FRICTION MODIFIERS! :shock:
I read the comments on the other forum, and agree, changing out the oil with a Seafoam treatment is recommended, and also to check the adjustments in the clutch housing. That adjustment may be too tight. But since the Rotella flavor in the engine now does show friction modifiers, it is most likely a contributing factor."


Denver,
was rummaging through my shop and came across this, used it to flush rears swing arm differential before adding fresh 80-90w.
will this suffice to flush or do you think it will be detrimental to the internals?

instead of seafoam?
instead of seafoam?


specs
specs

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DenverWinger
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by DenverWinger »

Probably not the best product to use, it says to only idle the engine for 5 mins and do not drive vehicle. Sounds like a really strong solution that will dissolve engine sludge. But sludge is not the issue here.

What we are trying to accomplish is to get oil additives off clutch plates, which means you need to operate the clutch. So fresh oil with a seafoam treatment, and drive 100-200 is more likely to have the desired results.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

DenverWinger wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:27 pm Probably not the best product to use, it says to only idle the engine for 5 mins and do not drive vehicle. Sounds like a really strong solution that will dissolve engine sludge. But sludge is not the issue here.

What we are trying to accomplish is to get oil additives off clutch plates, which means you need to operate the clutch. So fresh oil with a seafoam treatment, and drive 100-200 is more likely to have the desired results.
Alright, was able to drain, swap filter and fill with Rotella T4 15w40 with NO ADDITIVES (kin to the T6 full synthetic) with 4 oz of Seafoam (how much is too much?) to 3.7 quarts of oil, put 30 miles on her before the sunset on me today. Ran it through its paces, will see 100 miles before i change out for same combo in hopes quits slipping. Real drag cuz i like to winderout and let the pipes sing :/
Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated.

oil
oil


oil specs
oil specs


SAE Symbol
SAE Symbol



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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by DenverWinger »

You could double the Seafoam dose, won't hurt anything....

The idea is to get it into the clutch plates, a lot of pulling the clutch and coasting will help, too.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

good info, fixin to go for another spin after work, clutch engaged and coasting noted thx
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by paladin »

The Rotella 15w40 oil shouldn’t be an issue in a wet clutch. I used it for years until I started with the T6. It carries both the MA and MA2 ratings. It’s formulation was changed slightly a year or two ago to meet some newer standards but still carries the MA and MA2 rating.
T4 T5 and T6 should all work fine in a bike.
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by DenverWinger »

paladin wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:20 am T4 T5 and T6 should all work fine in a bike.
Not totally - there's a couple flavors of these with friction modifiers you have to watch for (varieties of T4 and T6) so have to double-check the SAE donut. It was 15w40 Rotella that started this thread.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Quintin »

Just wondering why not use a motorcycle specific oil like Hondaline, Yamalube, Maxima or BelRay? They may cost a little more but they are designed for a motorcycle. A motorcycle oil is used in the motor, transmission and wet clutch all having different requirements. Saving a few bucks on an oil change can come back to bite you as Magonsterz found out.
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by paladin »

T5 is the 15w40
As long as the sae circle does not say energy conserving you are ok.
The MA and MA2 ratings are motorcycle specific and safe for wet clutch applications.
As I stated I used it for years with no slippage and no I’ll effects.
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

DenverWinger wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:47 am
paladin wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:20 am T4 T5 and T6 should all work fine in a bike.
Not totally - there's a couple flavors of these with friction modifiers you have to watch for (varieties of T4 and T6) so have to double-check the SAE donut. It was 15w40 Rotella that started this thread.
It was the 15w40 in the blue jug with the additive denoted in the lower SAE donut that bit me.
Since loaded with T4 white jug non additive as of late.
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

DenverWinger wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:18 am You could double the Seafoam dose, won't hurt anything....

The idea is to get it into the clutch plates, a lot of pulling the clutch and coasting will help, too.
Hey Denver Added 4 more oz for a total of 8 oz to oil, but seeing how ride time is hard to come by, daily use of company work Truck, would it hurt to put up on center stand, light her off, place fan in front of rad, secure clutch In engaged Position to expedite Process described while stationary?
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by paladin »

CI-4 is a specification for oils which produce lower NoX emmissions. its not a friction modifier. the original oil was fine
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

paladin wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:48 pm CI-4 is a specification for oils which produce lower NoX emmissions. its not a friction modifier. the original oil was fine
Good to know which can only leave a couple of other reasons, clutch cable hang up (not it Visually confirmed), clutch cam pin incorrectly adjusted too deep or clutch friction discs worn out and or plates glazed,warped, out of spec etc. thx
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

Got home day, had clutch engagement set early (quarter let out on clutch) so i reset to 3/4 let out to see if it made a difference, did not, still lets go around 7k under load. 95 mph seems to be mas speed at which 4th and fifth lets go.
Bought specialty tools, nut socket, EBC clutch holding tool and clutch kit today as i cant stand any of my stuff not to do what it is suppose to do on command lol.
Found a decent sale on ebay, couple left if anyone interested includes friction, steel and springs. Gasket and clutch cable from Randakks just to round out the build. Cam drive pin seal was clean and dry so will not replace. Doubt i need the steel or springs but at this point would be silly not to replace for peace of mind and ounce of prevention.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BARNETT-CLUTCH ... 2749.l2649
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by Magonsterz! »

update:
fixed! runs like a champ, power shift pulls nicely, 100 mph zero slippage.
put a micrometer on steels, they were all in spec.
mic'd friction plates and 3 were out of spec, that was enough to make it slip on top 6k to 7k pulls and pwrshifts.
springs were in spec but felt mushy compared to new springs in barnetts kit.
Went in and filled with oem honda lube this time.
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Re: 75 GL CLUTCH SLIP UNDER LOAD AT 7K RPM

Post by landisr »

Good to hear you got this cleared up. Thanks for the follow up.

Ron in AZ


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