HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »



Hi everybody. I'm new to this forum and I just got my 76 goldwing. It was parked for more than two years.

I was having issues to mantain it running. When I accelerated it and pressed the start button for a few seconds it worked but after coming back to idle it died.

Last time I did turned it on then it died all of the sudden. After that, just cranks but doesn't start.
Somebody told me that by the sound the bike was running on two cylinders.

We checked the plugs and there's no spark on any of the four wires (new spark plugs btw). So, If somebody can Help me or guide me. I already Removed the ignition coils to test them.

Thanks!

Here you can check some videos.

[YouTube]

   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!
[/YouTube]

[YouTube]

   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!
[/YouTube]

[YouTube]

   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!
[/YouTube]


wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

I'm so lost :c help me please :(
User avatar
winguyjo
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: b.c. Canada
Motorcycle: wing1 : 1982 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete. SOLD
wing2 : 1980 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete. SOLD.
wing3 : 81gl1100i frame/82gl1100a engine/81cb900 bits. resurrection complete. naked. SOLD.
wing4 : 1977 gl1000 black w/ blue pinstripes; resurrection complete. SOLD
wing5 : 1977 gl1000 black w/gold pinstripes; nearly roadworthy when purchased, NOW RIDING.
wing6 : 1975 gl1000 blue; SOLD

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by winguyjo »

i have no audio on this computer.
until a real trouble-shooter comes along lets get the easy one out of the way ... is your kill switch in the "run" position ?
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

Audio sounds like it was only running on two cylinders.

I'd start by checking the ignition contact points. They are on the rear of the left-side cylinder head under a metal cover. Make sure both sets of contacts open about the thickness of a matchbook cover as the engine turns over.

On the third video it sounded like uneven compression load on the starter, every other compression stroke as the engine was cranking. Could be compression leaks, or could simply be alternate cylinders firing badly out of time due to misadjusted points.

Check your point gap and report back. If the gap is reasonably close the timing should be good enough for all four cylinders to fire without any further adjustment. We can fine tune the point gap and ignition timing after that.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:27 pm Audio sounds like it was only running on two cylinders.

I'd start by checking the ignition contact points. They are on the rear of the left-side cylinder head under a metal cover. Make sure both sets of contacts open about the thickness of a matchbook cover as the engine turns over.

On the third video it sounded like uneven compression load on the starter, every other compression stroke as the engine was cranking. Could be compression leaks, or could simply be alternate cylinders firing badly out of time due to misadjusted points.

Check your point gap and report back. If the gap is reasonably close the timing should be good enough for all four cylinders to fire without any further adjustment. We can fine tune the point gap and ignition timing after that.
Thanks, first of all, I found the reason of not having a spark. The Timing belt on the left is gone . Apparently the engine is good. I've seen some videos how to change the timing belts but I don't know what to do with the cam on the left. My cousin is helping me ( he knows about this kind of stuff) but I don´t know a lot. I know I have to move the engine through the stator until I see the T1 mark but is the left came move too?
Attachments


User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

You'll be lucky if you didn't get a couple bent valves when the belt broke, these are interference engines.

Move the the crankshaft midway between the T1 and T2 marks. With the timing covers off, you can turn the crankshaft at the belt pulley instead of using the rotor bolt.

Then move the left cam until the timing marks line up. Then you cam move the crankshaft to the T1 mark. Be sure to change the other belt, if one failed the other isn't far behind.

As to possible bent valves, you'll know soon enough when you have both belts on. A compression test will tell all. Should be able to tell just by the sound of the starter as you crank it over. If you have bent a valve or two your best bet is to try to find another cylinder head with valves.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 4025
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500A
2004 NRX1800 Rune SOLD

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by dingdong »

+1 on what DenverWinger said. I will go even further by saying that you WILL have at least 2 bent valves and possibly a busted piston. Good luck!
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:49 pm You'll be lucky if you didn't get a couple bent valves when the belt broke, these are interference engines.

Move the the crankshaft midway between the T1 and T2 marks. With the timing covers off, you can turn the crankshaft at the belt pulley instead of using the rotor bolt.

Then move the left cam until the timing marks line up. Then you cam move the crankshaft to the T1 mark. Be sure to change the other belt, if one failed the other isn't far behind.

As to possible bent valves, you'll know soon enough when you have both belts on. A compression test will tell all. Should be able to tell just by the sound of the starter as you crank it over. If you have bent a valve or two your best bet is to try to find another cylinder head with valves.
Hi, we changed the timing belts (we put the T1 mark and bot cams lined ¨up¨ . Listen to the video after we did the work.
Let me know your thoughts

[YouTube]

   Never miss a video: Subscribe to the GoldwingDocs YouTube channel today!
[/YouTube]
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

Still only firing on two cylinders.

You need to do a compression check on all cylinders, all sparkplugs removed and throttle wide-open when using the compression tester.

There may be other issues causing only two cylinders to fire, but bent valves in the left head are the primary suspect.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

would that be the problem even before the broken belt?
Also it seems that the carbs need some cleaning. Bike has been parked for more than two years. I'll try to test it today!

If valves are bent it would give me different levels on the two left cylinders, right?
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

Before the belt broke it sounded like it was running on only the front or rear two cylinders like one of the coils wasn't working (fire-miss-fire-miss), now it sounds like running on two cylinders on one side (fire-fire-miss-miss).

If valves are bent compression readings will be very low on the left side.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:54 pm Before the belt broke it sounded like it was running on only the front or rear two cylinders like one of the coils wasn't working (fire-miss-fire-miss), now it sounds like running on two cylinders on one side (fire-fire-miss-miss).

If valves are bent compression readings will be very low on the left side.
Yeah, I just confirmed (by taking out the two plug wires from the left, then pulling out just the wires from the right) that is running on 1 and 3. I don't have a compression gauge so I will have to ask for a borrowed one. Since it was sitting for a long time I hope its just on the carbs. I took the left cam cover and the valves moved as usual
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

I would expect them to continue to move.

Since you have the valve cover off you can check this - It won't be conclusive but could be an indicator...

Normally there's only a couple thousandths of an inch clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem. A bent valve won't close fully, and there could be significantly more gap between the rocker arm and the valve, depending on how much a valve is bent the rocker arm will be more "loose" when the valve is closed.

In the US you can "rent" - put a deposit - on specialty tools like a compression tester, most major Auto Parts stores do this. When you return the tool they refund your deposit. Not sure about Mexico though.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:28 am I would expect them to continue to move.

Since you have the valve cover off you can check this - It won't be conclusive but could be an indicator...

Normally there's only a couple thousandths of an inch clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem. A bent valve won't close fully, and there could be significantly more gap between the rocker arm and the valve, depending on how much a valve is bent the rocker arm will be more "loose" when the valve is closed.

In the US you can "rent" - put a deposit - on specialty tools like a compression tester, most major Auto Parts stores do this. When you return the tool they refund your deposit. Not sure about Mexico though.
Yeah, I'll ask at Autozone if a friend doesn't lend me that today. Another question, this is what I should buy in case the valves are bent, right?
Attachments


User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

The complete used cylinder head will probably be easiest to find, replacement valves aren't available anymore.

Original Equipment Honda brand head gaskets are still available, and recommend to stay away from the aftermarket brands.

I wouldn't remove the head unless compression test verifies bent valves, head gaskets are expensive.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:15 pm The complete used cylinder head will probably be easiest to find, replacement valves aren't available anymore.

Original Equipment Honda brand head gaskets are still available, and recommend to stay away from the aftermarket brands.

I wouldn't remove the head unless compression test verifies bent valves, head gaskets are expensive.
so its gonna be the head (the one I showed you on the picture) plus the gaskets, right? just to be sure because I have to order it from the US and its gonna take a while :( and of course I will do the test first!
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

Yes, test compression before ordering parts.

Gonna solicit opinions of the parts gurus here .... please help wgatesh and correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe all years of GL1000 heads are the same, and interchangeable between right and left side, the difference being the cams for the appropriate side.

However, I believe I heard that camshafts from different years of GL1000 have different grinds, and so whatever year of GL1000 head he gets if it isn't a 1976 use the camshaft from the original head, right?
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:40 pm Yes, test compression before ordering parts.

Gonna solicit opinions of the parts gurus here .... please help wgatesh and correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe all years of GL1000 heads are the same, and interchangeable between right and left side, the difference being the cams for the appropriate side.

However, I believe I heard that camshafts from different years of GL1000 have different grinds, and so whatever year of GL1000 head he gets if it isn't a 1976 use the camshaft from the original head, right?
Hi DenverWinger, Just made the compression test, there is no reading on 2 and 4 but there is on 1 and 3. So its the valves, Still when the engine is hot if I pull the choke all the way it goes to 3200- 3800 rpm

So,on https://www.saber-cycle.com/store/product330.html#330
They are selling the valves (intake and exhaust) do you recommend me buying them or go with the full cylinder head? and of course the gasket . Thanks
User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by DenverWinger »

Before you order any parts take the left head off and make sure the pistons are OK, it's very possible they are damaged, too.

I'd look for another head before I'd buy anything from Saber Cycle, they have a very bad reputation on this and another site. Stay away from them, customer service is horrible, and probably worse from Mexico.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

DenverWinger wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:27 am Before you order any parts take the left head off and make sure the pistons are OK, it's very possible they are damaged, too.

I'd look for another head before I'd buy anything from Saber Cycle, they have a very bad reputation on this and another site. Stay away from them, customer service is horrible, and probably worse from Mexico.
Woo, Thanks for letting me now! I won't purchase from Saber Cycle then. Is only their customer service bad or are the parts too? but Yeah I'll for another head but first I'll take the one I have to see the pistons, If they are damgaged I have to order new ones, right?
User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 21694
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by WingAdmin »

wgatesh wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:44 am
DenverWinger wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:27 am Before you order any parts take the left head off and make sure the pistons are OK, it's very possible they are damaged, too.

I'd look for another head before I'd buy anything from Saber Cycle, they have a very bad reputation on this and another site. Stay away from them, customer service is horrible, and probably worse from Mexico.
Woo, Thanks for letting me now! I won't purchase from Saber Cycle then. Is only their customer service bad or are the parts too? but Yeah I'll for another head but first I'll take the one I have to see the pistons, If they are damgaged I have to order new ones, right?
Their products are shoddy and cheap, they sell claiming fitment for incorrect applications, and their customer service is extraordinarily bad.

You can read about other peoples' experiences with them here: /Vendors/Saber-Cycle_880
User avatar
octane94
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by octane94 »

Saber Cycle!!! Don't start with me about those idiots.....

I bought a set of front wheel bearings for my GL1000 from Saber Cycle. I should have know better!!!!

One of them was loose when I pushed it into the hub, I emailed Saber Cycle and they told me that my wheel was worn out and loose and that their bearing was perfect. I told them that couldn't possibly be, the thing fit fine into the hub, but the CENTER race of the bearing was loose and sloppy. They called me an idiot and told me I was banned from buying from them again! What the hell!!

I rode on that bearing for three weeks before it started making a horrible noise. When I pulled the wheel off, the inner race was completely worn away and the ball bearings actually fell out of the wheel!!!

I should have known better than to put cheap "made in china" bearings in my bike. I will never buy any Saber Cycle junk again.
User avatar
winguyjo
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: b.c. Canada
Motorcycle: wing1 : 1982 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete. SOLD
wing2 : 1980 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete. SOLD.
wing3 : 81gl1100i frame/82gl1100a engine/81cb900 bits. resurrection complete. naked. SOLD.
wing4 : 1977 gl1000 black w/ blue pinstripes; resurrection complete. SOLD
wing5 : 1977 gl1000 black w/gold pinstripes; nearly roadworthy when purchased, NOW RIDING.
wing6 : 1975 gl1000 blue; SOLD

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by winguyjo »

"they sell claiming fitment for incorrect applications" ... i was close to ordering some front turn signal mounts from them despite their horrible reputation because nobody else seemed to have them (at least not for what i considered a reasonable price). a little searching revealed that what they were claiming would fit, would NOT. wound up finding some used ones and avoided handing these shysters my money.
wgatesh
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:05 am
Location: México
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by wgatesh »

winguyjo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:32 pm "they sell claiming fitment for incorrect applications" ... i was close to ordering some front turn signal mounts from them despite their horrible reputation because nobody else seemed to have them (at least not for what i considered a reasonable price). a little searching revealed that what they were claiming would fit, would NOT. wound up finding some used ones and avoided handing these shysters my money.
Dammit, I ordered a cylinder head gasket from them on amazon. The thing is that I didn't see it was from them :( hope it works but yeah I won't do it in the future.
User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 21694
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: HELP. gl1000 cranks but no starts. Ignition Coils Problems.

Post by WingAdmin »

wgatesh wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:23 pm
winguyjo wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:32 pm "they sell claiming fitment for incorrect applications" ... i was close to ordering some front turn signal mounts from them despite their horrible reputation because nobody else seemed to have them (at least not for what i considered a reasonable price). a little searching revealed that what they were claiming would fit, would NOT. wound up finding some used ones and avoided handing these shysters my money.
Dammit, I ordered a cylinder head gasket from them on amazon. The thing is that I didn't see it was from them :( hope it works but yeah I won't do it in the future.
ooooh, we have had more than a few people attempt to use Saber Cycle head gaskets and report here that they failed within months. Their gaskets are of particularly poor quality. It's from Amazon, easily returnable - I would just return it and get a good one. You don't want to skimp on head gaskets.


Post Reply