GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job


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amonera
Posts: 13
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Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
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2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
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GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:54 am



Hi guys (and girls)

This would be my first serious posting so sorry if i screw up something here... I have seen other topics of clicking noise (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7557&p=34012&hilit= ... ise#p34012) but is in the 1500 with hydraulic tappets and i think doesnt apply to this model...

so.. lets starts... I appreciate any help in here:

This is the sound after changing head gasket Honda gl1100 Goldwing with open valve cover. Its also the sound of my heart breaking after investing more than 20h in this operation, two months after i purchased the bike :(...

Note about me: this is my first attempt at opening a cylinder head (ever), I am not mechanic, I am a Electronic Engineer. I work with precision tools like iron solder, microchips, fpga and other tiny integrated circuits, however i do the mechanics as a hobby in my motorbikes and cars.

Before changing the head gasket and water pump I had the following problems.

- The first one was a leak on the water pump gasket
- A lot of oil in the exhaust (of cylinder 4) . The bike was smoking for 10 minutes after turn it on...
- Cylinder compression (4) was 125 psi compared to 150 in the other 3 cylinder.
- small clicking noise coming from the same cylinder when reeving, however the motorbike was behaving ok.. except for a high consumption of oil. (i thought this would be valve clearance when i bought the bike two months ago)

Operations Done:
- Changed water pump gasket and because we are on it, pump (also rubbers seals)
- Changed head gasket (i used copper paint for head gasket to have a better seal, but i did not gave enough time to cure... I think)
- Cleaned valves and re-done valve seats... (a valve was having a lot of carbon deposits and wasn't closing properly (i think)
- valve oil seals replaced
- valves clearance adjusted
- i dont think i need to say, but both gasket were completely cleaned and sanded surface before applying the new one. Head warping was withing the specs: less than 0.1mm.
- replaced exhaust gasket.... all gasket that came out, were replaced by new gaskets.
- Cylinder head torqued to 55nm in 6 increments following the order of the manual.
- Timing belt fitted and check it 5 times for both pulleys in UP position while engine was in T1.
- refiled with new oil (50% engine oil and 50% cleaning oil for engines) and distilled water ( the coolant circuit need a wash up due to high amount of deposits and I also used a lot of oil to clean some parts that will contaminate the cooling circuit with oil). Once the job is done, i will add a coolant flush and replace again oil and coolant.

And the aftermath : 11h after the job started...

- motorbike cranked noisily after 40 minutes struggling why the starter motor wasn't cranking
- 20 minutes to figure out that that the bike was in first year :( ,
- another 20 cranking and not starting due to... closed fuel.
(i was too worry that i screw up with the timing or something else)
- but then started with the clinking noise... louder than it was before i started working with the bike.

- Compression still lower than it should in the cylinder 4 (maybe the rings?) 140 in cold compared with 170 in the other cylinders, even its neighbor has a good compression, i think this could mean piston rings?

- motorbike running for 10 minutes with the noise going down a bit, but not too much.. still as noisy as it sounds in the video.

- leaking oil from the water pump gasket.. (a put a wrong rubber ring) :(

- right now the head is out again and there is no visual valve damage or marks whatsoever in cylinder of valves.


Let me know in the comments what do you think. maybe dropped vale guide? ... I am running out of Ideas and i dont know what else should i do to at least remove this noise.. :(

This is the motorbike after the operation and before re-opening, how cylinder head is on the workbench again for deep examination,















User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 976
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1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
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1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
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Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by DenverWinger » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:56 am

I don't hear anything serious here, but it does sound like the valve clearances need adjustment. That should take care of the ticking. :)
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

winguyjo
Posts: 175
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Motorcycle: wing1 : 1982 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete.
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wing3 : 81 gl1100i frame / 82 gl1100a engine/ 81cb900 odds & ends; resurrection complete. it's naked. SOLD.

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by winguyjo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:16 pm

i agree that it is likely valve adjustment ... or possibly an exhaust tick.
that water/oil mix, and the compression issue, should clear up with an oil/filter change (or 2) and a bit of running time.

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:00 am

Valve clearance were adjusted just after mounting everything...

however I have replaced the exhaust gasket/rings... and the new one seems "too hard"... I have tighten the exhaust screws to 25nm /18.44 ft-lb but i dont feel that is getting shaped at all...

I will feel really stupid (and paranoid) if i just removed the cylinder head again just for a exhaust leak :S. I just wanted to be sure that I havent screw anything up inside...

Anyway, I am re-polishing the valves and re-doing valve seats to see if i can improve compression.

I will clean very well the exhaust ports, (maybe add some silicone - high temperature gasket??) in the exhaust seals to see if the noise disappears..

Thanks guys :) ... any other inputs or things to check will be welcomed.. i am expecting to put it back together (again) in the following nights...

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Aussie81Interstate
Posts: 1162
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Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:38 am

Have you changed the oil and it comes out contaminated ?? Definitely some water in that for sure.

Probably check the valve settings gaps and ensure the head is tensioned correctly, then give it a good warm up - make sure the motor is up to temperature - check the oil and change it with some cheaper brand - you may need to do this at least twice to flush any water out - you will need a new filter each time as well...let the oil drain thoroughly before putting fresh oil in..

It may be the top of one one of the valve stems is showing some wear, and not adjusting properly for you - see if you can see any visual divot in the top of one of the valves - that could be your problem..

cheers

:)

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DenverWinger
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by DenverWinger » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 am

Aussie81Interstate wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:38 am
Have you changed the oil and it comes out contaminated ?? Definitely some water in that for sure.

It may be the top of one one of the valve stems is showing some wear, and not adjusting properly for you - see if you can see any visual divot in the top of one of the valves - that could be your problem..
He did state in first post he changed the oil, 50% engine oil, 50% "Cleaning oil". That's probably what we are seeing in the video.....

+1 on the valve stem "Divot", there was another thread where the member ran into exactly the same situation.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 pm

Guys, thanks again,

I need to make a correction.. seems that the collant (water at the time) wasn't mixing with the oil... you are right, what we see in the video is the mixture of the engine oil and cleaning oil plus the copper paint from the headgasket that seems to be dissolved with this oil plus all the crap that would be found inside an engine that probably hanst seen a flush in many many many (ever?) years...

open head, clean valves again, (now they are shining, they look amazing) re-done valve seats again, clean this and that, new head-gasket, this time with less copper paint and i let it dry more than before... plus 24 hours without putting oil or water, plus new exhaust gasket.




I checked also the top of the valve, even sand them a little bit to ensure they are smooth and flat... same with the cam shaft (just looking, no touching) and the rocker's arms. All look ok

all back together, torked and cleaned around (to detect leaks) , put oil (50/50) and water 24h later.. start.. anddd...

the same :( noise.. but i haven't check the compression yet.. it was 1am when i turn it on and i dont want to wake up the neighbours...

I start to think that maybe the problem is caused because the cleaning oil is too thin and is not oiling things enough.. or too much.. I think i will try to put the real stuff inside during the weekend (i hope)


3am.. tomorrow more... thanks again :)

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:43 pm

Thanks to all, I have gave up.. closed everything again for second time, replaced the exhaust gaskets, changed the oil to normal oil, adjusted the valves clearance for a third time...

The compression in cylinder 4 (i think was 4..) stil low (125 vs 150 in all others) the ticking noise still there... After doing the valve seat and head gasket twice, and checking the slacks... i think is the piston rings, something that i am not planning to repair, it will be too much for me... I will continue driving the motorbike like this till it falls apart or till I sell it...

Thanks again :)

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Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:23 am

amonera wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:43 pm
Thanks to all, I have gave up.. closed everything again for second time, replaced the exhaust gaskets, changed the oil to normal oil, adjusted the valves clearance for a third time...

The compression in cylinder 4 (i think was 4..) stil low (125 vs 150 in all others) the ticking noise still there... After doing the valve seat and head gasket twice, and checking the slacks... i think is the piston rings, something that i am not planning to repair, it will be too much for me... I will continue driving the motorbike like this till it falls apart or till I sell it...

Thanks again :)
There's an easy test to see if it is in fact the piston rings: squirt a tablespoon of oil into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. If the compression values spike up on that cylinder, then you know the leak is related to the rings. If not, then it's the valvetrain.

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Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:03 am

You can do a leak down test. Even though you have lapped the valves, may still be considerable leakage past the valves. The main culprit would be the exhaust valve(s). The leak down test will also let you know if the rings are bad as well. Here's a web site regarding a DIY leak down tester by Mike Nixon over on the NGW forum: https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=66749
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Confirmed, adding oil boost compression, from 125 to almost 170 (in cold)... So I am officially screwed...
I may have add a little bit more than a spoon :p

Thanks admin :) easy way to verify this thig thing, I will remember for my next goldwing before I start messing up with the engine...

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Aussie81Interstate
Posts: 1162
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Motorcycle: 2001 GL1500F6C Valkyrie
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1981 GL1100 Interstate (sold)
1988 GL1500 (sold)

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:14 pm

Keep riding it you may as well get your fun out of it, before it requires a teardown - which could be in a few more years - depending on how much you ride.. :)

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:22 pm

I will Aussie, when the good weather comes... now is middle of winter with temperatures rounding the freezing point. I will finish putting the fairing back (just finished doing a coolant flush) put the cover on, and wait for the weather to improve...

In the meanwhile.. I have a honda cx 500 turbo to service too, at least 5 years stopped with very little care is going to require some patience... I hope i will find no hidden rabbits in this one too.

Thank you all :)

Best regards

Angel Monera

winguyjo
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: b.c. Canada
Motorcycle: wing1 : 1982 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete.
wing2 : 1980 gl1100 interstate; resurrection complete. SOLD.
wing3 : 81 gl1100i frame / 82 gl1100a engine/ 81cb900 odds & ends; resurrection complete. it's naked. SOLD.

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by winguyjo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:37 pm

" ... Confirmed, adding oil boost compression, from 125 to almost 170 (in cold)... So I am officially screwed... "

not so fast.

in my case, WING1, had decent compression so it was the first one i resuscitated.
WING2 had awful compression on ALL cylinders, but after some run time it now has excellent compression.
(note : for both bikes i followed randakks procedure for reviving wings that had been sitting).
from the reading i have done, and my own experience with my two gl1100's, the rings on these engines have a powerful tendency to stick if the engines sit for an extended period of time.

your wing just may decide to heal itself with a bit of exercise.
good luck.

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Aussie81Interstate
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1981 GL1100 Interstate (sold)
1988 GL1500 (sold)

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:45 pm

amonera,

You may notice I too have a CX500 Turbo - mine had been in hibernation for an extended period as well - but mine had been ridden hard and put away wet... I have a topic on the Australia CX web site - I will link it here to show some of the issues that I have had - you may find it helpful or funny or useless...

https://www.australiancx.asn.au/forum/i ... ;topicseen

cheers

Charlie

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:02 pm

For what i know, the goldwing was resuscitated approximately 3 years ago and since then, base on the information i have, it has run 3000 kms in the last 4 years, 1000 in since the last two. it may have been stopped during winter, after all this is sweden, but it was riden last summer by the previous owner, and even myself, i manage to put 300kms just before starting the winter maintenance... :(... seems i bought a lemon, but even so.. it rides well, (at least since i balanced the carburetors) just the ticking noise and as i said before, the excessive smoke in the exhaust, which now seems to have decreased... or at least i want to believe that...

Another thing that make me think that there is something wrong with the bike is that the previous guy was kind of a mechanic, tuning racing cars and with some motorbikes around his garage... It was sold as it was needed a valve adjustment.

Thanks Aussie, I will keep the link :) My jobs will start soon and i will be popping up in some forums :P

amonera
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:56 pm
Location: Sweden or Spain
Motorcycle: 1982 Honda Cx500 Turbo,
1982 Honda Silverwing Interestate
1981 Honda GL1100 interstate,
1981 Honda GL1100 naked (sold)
2006 TDM 900A (sold)
2003 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1999 Kawasaki Zx12R (sold)
2002 Yamaha Thundercat (sold)
1992 Yamaha TZR80RR

Re: GL1100 excessive exhaust smoke, clicking noise, head gaskets job

Post by amonera » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:50 am

Ok maybe after an awful winter with not been able to try the goldwing after doing this job, the sun came out the other day and i said, knocking and clicking or not, i need to get it out... i need to see how bad it is to drive the bike like this... so after a horrible start with the noise, letting it warm up while i geared up, i decide to hit the road... the bike worked ok, as i said it was just with a annoying a noise....

15 minutes on my way, suddenly i realized that i wasn't able to hear the noise... still there but seems less loud.... 30 minutes later you cant barely hear anything, the loud clicking and knocking is 99% gone... :o

i haven't recorded any video/audio yet because i need to get it out at least once more before confirm but some how, seems that oil wasn't reaching somewhere or it needed some more oil pressure to penetrate/grease the valves properly or no idea... but it really has improved A LOT...

now it drives great!!! except for the carburetors that started to cough a little bit... which i synchronize after the 200kms ride...

of course this thing has just happened after spending 70$ in a new cylinder head that now is waiting me to be collected in the post office :( i think is not worth for me to trying to reach a perfect engine... i think what i am hearing now is the slack in the valve guides that it was less than a mm of movement... or should I?... i still have two more head gasket...

Thank you all :).



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