heavy whitish smoke (both sides) GL1100A

[bitterrooter]

Have read a LOT of posts on this site and find the info in them really helpful. New to the world of wings and just bought a 1982 GL1100A with 46k. Changed out the timing belts, no major problems with the help of many posts. Set the valves, again, no problem. Changed oil and filter, drained coolant. (refilled coolant with water for testing) new battery and fuel filter. drained fuel tank and cleaned. Wanted to do all of them as I bought this and was told that it had set for a long time (last ridden in 2004 as far I can tell). Started the engine (hard to start...took maybe a dozen tries). to keep it running had to keep the rpms up to about 2000-2500. Lots of smoke from both pipes. looked like there had been oil left in t he cylinders. ran for about 5 minutes or a little longer. the smoke may have cleared a bit. there was a clicking of the valves that did not sound right to me. several backfires when I brought the rpm down below 1800. did a compression test 150-155 psi on all 4 with the engine cool. (didn't let it get to the 45 degrees outside temperature but certainly not a hot engine. when I took the sparkplugs out nr 1 and nr 2 had raw gas on the tips. Nr 3 and nr 4 were dry and no black fouling as I had to expected. After reading more posts I'm thinking carb kits and the rings may be stuck. with the solid lifters is there supposed to be a valve click when running? This is easily heard but not excessively loud. The smoke: my guess is a combo of over fueling on 1 and 2 plus struck ring (s). I would happily entertain any ideas on what the next step should be in getting this thing to run.

[Wilcoy02]

Are you getting spark from the wire to the spark plug? If not check your coils. One could be cracked.
Double check that your lines match up on the belts. One tooth off will give you some back firing, and clicking of the valves.
Put 3-4 oz of atf in the gas tank and run. This will help clean the carbs. I run atf in every other tank of gas all summer long.
After sitting you will get some smoke for a little while until everything is getting used to running again.
Almost all 1100 smoke for 30 seconds or so when first starting, after sitting on the side stand.

[bitterrooter]

Now I feel really dumb, have read a post somewhere here about the coils and backfires. do 1 and 2 fire on the same coil at the same time? (a wasted spark is what they call that, I think.) That would surely give one all the unburned gas on both of those cylinders. Tomorrow I will check the timing, valve gap, spark and drop some ATF into the tank. Thanks for the help....I will post the findings maybe as early as tomorrow nite.

[DenverWinger]

Yes, the 1100 has two "Wasted Spark" coils firing four cylinders, 1 & 2 on one coil, 3 & 4 on the other. Secondary winding on these coils is isolated, so the coil secondary winding depends on BOTH sparkplugs to complete the circuit. If either is compromised, neither will fire.

Timing is non-adjustable on the GL1100 but you can use your automotive timing light just to see if there's spark...

[Rednaxs60]

Bought a spark plug wire tester:

Works well and gives an indication of what is happening.

[Wilcoy02]

So it gave you an indication of what's happening. Now enlighten us so so we know what's happening.

[bitterrooter]

Sometimes it is good to get a good dose of reality, I don't know everything and sometimes I make mistakes! Belts were off by about 1/2 a tooth on the right side. Took me a while to get both sprockets lined up to where they were exactly right then rolled it over by hand about 6-8 times then checked again, perfect give or take a thin hair. Reset the valves, 3 slightly loose. Put 1 teaspoon of Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder and that should coat Cylinder walls and as I rolled it over a little blew out. checked both 1 and 2 for spark and had a good blue spark on both. Put it all together again, at least enough to run it. Fired it up. could have been really bad, got a little smoke right at first and as it warmed up the smoke increased to a real cloud. After about 10 minutes and the smoke still belching from the exhaust pipes I shut it off and walked out of the garage in disgust. Had a drink, waited for the smoke to clear and went back. Right behind the bike was a black pool of something. My first thought was so much oil passing the rings that it was spitting it out in the exhaust. Wrong again, it was raw gasoline. I didn't pull the plugs but now I'm betting on number one carb has a float not working or a stuck needle valve. Guess I'll spend some time on here tonight looking for posts on carb problems and the solutions that takes care of the problem. Thanks for the posts on this and I'm going to look for one of those spark tools cause I can see a lot of usage for that around here.

[bitterrooter]

watched several videos on removing the carbs and cleaning them. Most of them replaced some of the jets, some just clean the holes out. This bike sat for a long time and I'm pretty sure that they will be really dirty and a lot of residue from evaporated gas remaining on all of the inside parts. For anyone that has done an old carb set that the fuel dried out while sitting, can you clean these up and running again without a kit?

[winguyjo]

yes, you can. the most worrisome part, to me, is always the TINY washers and o-rings under the pilot jet screws. they are easily dropped and then good luck finding them. then there is always the potential for tearing the tiny rubber o-rings during extraction. if you think you have a stuck inlet valve, you can try rapping on that bowl a few times with a stout plastic handled screwdriver; often thats all it takes to get it seated.

does the engine currently idle on it's own with no help from the choke or throttle ? does it respond to the throttle properly ?

exhausts can contain large amounts of condensation and other unpleasantness from sitting, so maybe see what can be burned off during a good chunk of run time, but you can usually bet on having to remove and clean the carbs on a bike that has sat more than a year.

[bitterrooter]

I believe that this bike ran for the last time in about 2004-2005, 14 years ago. The good part is that it was stored in an unheated garage but at least it was real dry (northern Montana) I have to keep the rpm up to 2000 or more most of the time just to keep it running. It sounded pretty good at about 1200-1500 just for a short time then had to go back above 2000 or it would have quit. After a relatively short time I had a pretty good sized puddle of raw gas below the right side exhaust. At least that pipe is clean of all the soot. They left the gas on so the tank was empty and I got a smell of gas when I checked then changed the oil. I'm thinking a stuck or heavy float. Will be checking the level of the gas with the clear tubing off the drain plug. Either way I will be taking the carbs off and do some checking. If there is damage to an "O" ring or I lose one then I have no option except for the kit. If all goes good then clean and try it again. If one bowl comes out with too much fuel I will try the whack it with a screwdriver trick and see if that helps.

[bitterrooter]

Update: pulled the airbox open, took out the filter and low and behold I have gas about 1/8 inch deep in the back. Didn't I read a post here somewhere about the same problem and he had a fire while test running? Fire is one thing that I do not need. Was there an end to that thread that solved the problem? believe I have the same problem. Timing on the cam belts dead on, valves gapped right. Number 1 and 2 plugs are still wet. Didn't run long enough to really check out 3 and 4 but they are dry and seem to be firing alright. Had raw gas blowing out the right exhaust last time I ran it with lots of white smoke. Had to run over 2000 rpm to keep it running. There is fairly hard knock every once in a while if I get below 2000rpm. Other than cam timing and a really tight intake on both 1 and two, is there anyway to have a cylinder blow gas back up the intake? Any and all suggestions are more than welcome

[winguyjo]

inlet needle(s) stuck open, flooding the carbs. gonna have to remove/clean/bench test.
as for the knocking, these engines can make awful sounds until the carbs are synced, so i wouldn't worry about that right now.

[bitterrooter]

Thanks winguyjo. Figured as much. Know there is a complete carb overhaul since when I pulled the airbox and could see more of the top of the carbs I saw at least 2 places there are leaks to the outside of the carbs. the tube between 1 and 3 has leaked and with the dust and dirt there is a build up of gunk. So needing those "O"-rings I might as well go ahead and rebuild all 4 the right way. It's just $$$$.

[bitterrooter]

read some of the post here and also read the remarks on Pistol Pete's. Decided that the best route to go now is the carb rebuild by Pete.. Sent them off today. will let everyone know how this works out after I get them back and try to start her back up. Thanks for the good advice from all!

[albinoredneck]

WHITE smoke is OIL...Black smoke is FUEL. white smoke could also be ANTI-FREEZE.
on my 82 GW GL1100, i had a problem one day with the damn thing smoking like a Miskito truck. I'll keep this short... come to find out the head gaskets were blown. the water pump wet out long before I got the bike and I didn't know it.
check your water pump, and check the head gaskets.
I pulled the exhaust pipes off and had anti-freeze in 3 of the 4 cylinders.

[bitterrooter]

What compression did you have. this one is running 150 per cylinder, had raw gas on the intake side of things and the gas was pouring out of the exhaust. Along with all the rest of the things that I need to do now I better check the waterpump. Haven't had it running lone enough to get it warm enough to get the pump and fan running but with most of the trim off now would be a really good time to get a good look at the water pump. Thanks.

[albinoredneck]

I didn't check the compression. but it was hard to turn over with the starter. it didn't want to turn at all,,,because of the anti-freeze in the cylinder(s).

funny story on my bike is, when I bought it I drove it about 60 miles home. it had only the front brakes and no brake lights. I was driving with tags that were at least 7 years out of date and from a different state... also unknown to me at the time the rear tire had 2 large gashes in it. i'm talking 3 inch and a 5 inch gash right down to the cord. I made it home with angles watching me all the way. the next day i checked over the bike and found oil in the water resivour. so I changed the head gaskets. the o-rings on the oilers (on both heads) were shot.leaking oil right into the water jackets. I changed the gaskets and o-rings. the bike ran great. no over heating. Hell, the gauge never went above 1/4 way. the fan never came on. towards the end of summer it started smoking and not wanting to start.
I found the head gaskets were blown. the cause was the water pump went out and I did not know it. the water pump didn't pump the water so the gauge did not work and the fan would not come on.
I only found the pump bad by accident. I had the front covers off and the thermostat housing off and decide to check the pump...don't know why but I did it.. i could wiggle the blades up and down and side to side. I knew it was shot.
also when I rode the bike it sounded like i had a lose hose tapping under the bike.. I never could pin point where it was coming from. it may have been the water pump making the noise. it sounded like it was coming from that area.
I believe the pump was bad before I bought the bike and no one even knew it.
I've got it up and running, but I haven't got to road test it, yet. Damn weather,lol
I've also bought one of the 7 volt resistors off of this site for the gauges. I'm not sure if that was my problem with the gauge, but can't hurt.

[bitterrooter]

sounds like we both started in the world of wings about the same.. I think that this one set for 10+ years and not running when I bought it. PO did a lot of "custom" wiring and that has been a nightmare to fix. Finally got the wiring diagram from the local Honda dealer so that problem is fixed. (at least all of the problems that I have found so far having run the engine for only about 20 minutes total.) I just sent the carbs to Pistol Pete and looked at the drier and found oil. Now it's all new fork seals and go thru all of the brake parts from the master cylinders to the calipers and all of the shocks for seals. Since I'll have the whole back of the bike off or loose I guess the final drive gets a run thru too. Not much left to look at except the water pump and the head gaskets. Lucky me, Friday the 19th I get to go back to work in Alaska for a while. Wanted this running early summer but not much of a chance of that now. The good part....I'll know the bike real well by the time I'm finished and get to ride it. Thanks for the insight on some of the other problems that I could encounter.

[albinoredneck]

no problem..
when you do the back shocks,,,GOOD LUCK. i went thru 3 sets and none worked. had to switch over to regular shocks. not as smooth as of ride but hold up pretty good. the air shocks would not hold up with me on it and I only weigh 210lbs. they kept bottoming out. I'd get off the bike and the shocks looked normal. but when I got on they would sink down all the way.
another thing to remember, when you rebuild the master cylinder(s) clean out both holes in the fluid chamber. you back master cylinder has a tube. the holes are in where the tube connects. the smaller hole doesn't look like it would do anything,,,wrong. it does. it is the pressure relief for the calipers.
I rebuild my rear master cylinder and caliper only to have the brakes lock up. i re-rebuilt them both and changed the brake line. I even put a different rear master cylinder on the bike. same thing the brakes would lock up and not release. i had to open the bleeder valve to free the brakes up.
come to find out, it was the small hole in the master cylinder.. it was stopped up. i re-cleaned the master cylinder and used a thin wire to clean the tiny hole(s)... it works like a charm. had to learn the hard way.
front fork seals can be done ON THE BIKE...it's messy but it can be done. putting the oil in the forks is a BITCH. get a helper. i didn't have anyone...almost dropped my bike...lol. damn thing is HEAVY.

[bitterrooter]

I have read about the two holes and cleaning both real good and not enlarge the holes. I will have to look more into the new (?) progressive spring that you can replace the old OEM spring with, some had pretty good luck doing just that if I remember the post right. You're right, I've had 3 full dress Harleys and they were pretty light compared to the Aspencade. Having a hard time waiting to get this running and take her out on the highway and check out the handling compared to the Harleys. I plan to pull the front forks as I have a lot of the stuff off now and have to pull the brakes and front wheel. Tires on this are 37 years old and are now slicks. Off to work early Friday morning so all is on hold until sometime next month. Thanks for the info!