1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our


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phredryxun96
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1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »



Replaced the leaky real seal on the motor. Problem is reoccuring where the new rear seal is unseating itself, causing the oil to continue to leak.


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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

Hmmmm.Is the crankcase ventilation plugged up?Does it have a collection canister attached to that hose?
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

I don't believe it is plugged up. The collection canister was empty.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

Ok.That was just a quick guess.
You mentioned that the new seal is unseating itself.is that the rubber seal or the whole assemble coming out?
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

Whole assembly is unseating.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

I'm drawing a blank.This is the fitted seal on the output shaft correct?
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

Yes it is the fitted seal on the output shaft of the engine.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

Interesting.I have never had one come back out.The OEM seal holder metal frame had a glue coating around it and was very tight fitting.
Using a seal drive adaptor is necessary to get it fitted square and secure.
I use a piece of steel pipe measured and trimmed to fit the flange.Just tapping it into place all around the edges "could" have distorted the flange and scraped the "glue ring" where it wasn't a tight seat.
Just a best guess.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

I'm thinking about using some RTV to help seal and hold it in place? Is this a bad idea or do you have any other suggestions?
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by WingAdmin »

I was thinking along the same lines as Virgil. Rather than trying RTV or some other nonstandard way of forcing the seal to stay in (i.e. fixing the symptom), find out what is causing it to come out in the first place, and fix that (fix the cause). #1 on my list would be blow-by pressurizing the crankcase and pushing the seal out - which is why Virgil asked about the crankcase breather. If it is clogged, the pressure buildup will start pushing seals (and oil) out.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

WingAdmin wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:17 am I was thinking along the same lines as Virgil. Rather than trying RTV or some other nonstandard way of forcing the seal to stay in (i.e. fixing the symptom), find out what is causing it to come out in the first place, and fix that (fix the cause). #1 on my list would be blow-by pressurizing the crankcase and pushing the seal out - which is why Virgil asked about the crankcase breather. If it is clogged, the pressure buildup will start pushing seals (and oil) out.
Would you reccomend pulling the breather hose and trying compressed air into the breather tube? Otherwise I have no idea why this could be working its way out...
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

I guess the thought here is basically a loose fitting seal frame to the casting for whatever reason..
Casting damage..improper installation..poor tolerances on the new seal..lack of or wrong "glue" ring...
Something isn't right.That seal should have been near impossible to remove and just as hard to install.They fit really tight and the "glue" ring seizes it to the casting.
Even if your breather were plugged it wouldn't push the seal frame loose from the casting,it would push the rubber seal out first.
Excess crankcase pressure is the cause of "I just blew a seal" comment.
You didn't blow a seal,the whole thing is coming out of the casting.
Rtv silicone probably won't work..If there's any oil anywhere around it won't stick.
Now if you have absolutely no other choice..
The only option I can think of to get by with is this method.
Remove the seal..clean,clean,clean the metal outer ring where it sets into the casting..
Do the same at the engine casting...
Mix jb weld and apply a new "glue" seal on the seal outer ring ONLY.Do not put it on the engine casting anywhere.
Before it cures.within a 1/2 hour or so..Line it up square with the casting and gently tap it into place....Square...use a piece of pipe..don't tap it in side to side with a hammer..It must go in evenly...never getting it crooked or one side deeper than the other.
Let it cure for 24 hours and then reassemble.
The jb weld will be very hard to get off if it needs to be replaced again so this is the last resort..
Also if you just replace the seal order OEM only.
I don't trust tolerances of the cheap ones.
Test fit everything first.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

So the old seal had unseated itself as well. The new one was oem as well. Sadly, I may have to use the JB weld method as the seal can be removed with not a lot of effort...
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

I have no answer why is works itself loose.
This is indeed odd.
I have never had a seal like that come loose.I have replaced many over the years and in several different applications.
Each one was difficult to get out of the casting.
None of them were easy to seat a new one in.
But as you note... something isn't right there and jb weld may be the only solution.
Unless someone else has a different idea,it's the best solution I can come up with.
Just use the original jb weld for metal not the plastic stuff.
Take great care not to get it in the case..just a layer on the seal metal ring.
Your seal should look like this one and you want the jb weld applied to the indicated surface arrowed only just like the red sealant used on this one.


If its not much trouble,could you take a few pictures for all us.This is truly unusual.
Please keep us posted.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by WingAdmin »

phredryxun96 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:20 am
WingAdmin wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:17 am I was thinking along the same lines as Virgil. Rather than trying RTV or some other nonstandard way of forcing the seal to stay in (i.e. fixing the symptom), find out what is causing it to come out in the first place, and fix that (fix the cause). #1 on my list would be blow-by pressurizing the crankcase and pushing the seal out - which is why Virgil asked about the crankcase breather. If it is clogged, the pressure buildup will start pushing seals (and oil) out.
Would you reccomend pulling the breather hose and trying compressed air into the breather tube? Otherwise I have no idea why this could be working its way out...
I'd pull the hose off the breather and gently put some air through it to see if it's blocked. You should be able to even blow through it with your mouth, if you try:

Crankcase breather
Crankcase breather

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

Also (I had a laps)..when you get the old seal off..check the lateral play in the shaft..
Maybe it's possible that bearing is bad or U joint causing vibration???
Sheesh..even that would be absorbed by the rubber seal..
I just can't come up with anything that can dislodge the metal ring from the casting.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by phredryxun96 »

virgilmobile wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:17 pm I have no answer why is works itself loose.
This is indeed odd.
I have never had a seal like that come loose.I have replaced many over the years and in several different applications.
Each one was difficult to get out of the casting.
None of them were easy to seat a new one in.
But as you note... something isn't right there and jb weld may be the only solution.
Unless someone else has a different idea,it's the best solution I can come up with.
Just use the original jb weld for metal not the plastic stuff.
Take great care not to get it in the case..just a layer on the seal metal ring.
Your seal should look like this one and you want the jb weld applied to the indicated surface arrowed only just like the red sealant used on this one.IMG_20190725_131212.png
If its not much trouble,could you take a few pictures for all us.This is truly unusual.
Please keep us posted.
I'm wondering if the glue on the new seal is bad, the packaging on the part looked pretty old? IfI get a chance in the next few days I'll try and get a picture as well of the seal after it has worked itself out.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by virgilmobile »

I have another question for you and the others on board about this.
The transmission output shaft...The rear bearing in particular...What keeps it inside the casting...
When you pull the seal off...MEASURE the depth from the edge of the casting to the bearing...Is it deeper than the seal is thick?
Did the rear bearing push the seal out?
Is the bearing suppose to be able to be pulled out?
Could the output shaft/spring/retainers be broken?It does have a large torque spring and retainer clips on it.
So many questions.My brain hurts from looking at tiny pictures on my phone.
Help.
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by indianakid »

the case is machined so that the bearing is pressed from the inside up against a shoulder. the seal is pressed into the case from the outside. there is nothing that would push the seal out as long as everything is per print. that said it seems to be a size issue since the OP stated that the seal went in easily so either it is the wrong seal, or the seal is undersized on the OD or the case bore is oversize. the best goforward solution (other than get the correct seal if that is the problem) is clean both engine and seal with brake clean or similar and install the seal with something like Gasketcinch, or blue thread locker, or permatex etc....... to bond the seal in place.
Good Luck !!!
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Re: 1983 Gl1100 Rear Seal Pushing itself our

Post by nwkwinger »

This may be a little bit late, but green Loctite is designed for this type of thing. The blue is designed for thread retention. I would avoid the JB Weld method at all costs.


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