Oil spray from exhaust pipe


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shevik
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Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »



I started my bike up after she sat for the last month while I found her a fresh set of carbs. After some trouble getting the carb floats adjusted properly she started right up at a pretty high idle (2k-3k rpms). I would have busted out the sync to get the idle rpm down but I'm pretty sure she sprayed some oil out of the left exhaust pipe, around half a dozen dime sized drops. I shut the bike off immediately because I don't know if a bike should be run that's experiencing that kind of problem.

Add to this that one of my exhaust pipes, corresponding to cylinder 3, was about half the temperature to the touch as the others. This might be because I had not fully tightened the corresponding float bowls drain bolt and I was losing gas at a steady trickle out the bottom, or maybe it's because this is the cylinder leaking oil into the exhaust? Both? I just don't know enough about this engine.

Now my initial inquiry into this matter seems to indicate that I need to replace my head gasket or valve stem seals on that side, but this is of course not a very charming idea. I would love to get everyone's thoughts before I go in for open heart surgery. :?


If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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DenverWinger
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by DenverWinger »

If that bike has been sitting for a while before you got it, it's hard to say what old gunk may be laying in the bottoms of the exhaust pipes, I wouldn't worry about the drips quite yet. It may just need o get warmed up real good to burn that old gunk out of the pipes.

If there's an issue with the head gasket or valve seals (which I doubt at this time) it won't hurt to run the engine some. Lets work on getting your carburetors dialed in so you can run the bike long enough to get the engine warmed up real good, then we can see what other issues may raise their head.

Tighten up your drain screw on #3, Set the main idle adjuster so that it idles around 1000 RPM, and then break out your sync gauges. If the carbs are not in sync we can expect to find some cylinders firing hotter than others.

If there's old gunk in the exhaust it might smoke a little (or a lot) as the pipes get hot. Don't let this scare you either. It may take quite a while of running to get the exhaust to clear.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by 2003Cobra »

DenverWinger is right get your carb's dialed in first and then see what you have. Jumping around from one issue to the next and not resolving the previous issue will only drive you nuts and not get any where. Given the possible flooding issue and the crud in the pics (from carb thread) you could be seeing the crud being washed away.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Maz »

2003Cobra wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:40 am DenverWinger is right get your carb's dialed in first and then see what you have. Jumping around from one issue to the next and not resolving the previous issue will only drive you nuts and not get any where. Given the possible flooding issue and the crud in the pics (from carb thread) you could be seeing the crud being washed away.
+1 . You had a pretty major flooding issue. It's extremely likely the "oil" coming out of the exhaust is carbon etc being washed out of the silencers by the excess fuel left in the pipes.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Ravyn »

Maz wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 pm
2003Cobra wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:40 am DenverWinger is right get your carb's dialed in first and then see what you have. Jumping around from one issue to the next and not resolving the previous issue will only drive you nuts and not get any where. Given the possible flooding issue and the crud in the pics (from carb thread) you could be seeing the crud being washed away.
+1 . You had a pretty major flooding issue. It's extremely likely the "oil" coming out of the exhaust is carbon etc being washed out of the silencers by the excess fuel left in the pipes.
Maz
I think you and cobra may have mis read or mis understood what he said. He said that he left the DRAIN SCREW loose and gas was running out of the carb. This is not a flooding problem.That carb would not have any where near enough fuel in it to fire that cylinder. That's not a flooding problem that's a not enough fuel problem. If that cylinder was not firering due to lack of fuel then of course it wont be as hot as the others !
Other wise dave winger is leading him in the right direction.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Maz »

Ravyn wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:14 pm
Maz wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 pm
2003Cobra wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:40 am DenverWinger is right get your carb's dialed in first and then see what you have. Jumping around from one issue to the next and not resolving the previous issue will only drive you nuts and not get any where. Given the possible flooding issue and the crud in the pics (from carb thread) you could be seeing the crud being washed away.
+1 . You had a pretty major flooding issue. It's extremely likely the "oil" coming out of the exhaust is carbon etc being washed out of the silencers by the excess fuel left in the pipes.
Maz
I think you and cobra may have mis read or mis understood what he said. He said that he left the DRAIN SCREW loose and gas was running out of the carb. This is not a flooding problem.That carb would not have any where near enough fuel in it to fire that cylinder. That's not a flooding problem that's a not enough fuel problem. If that cylinder was not firering due to lack of fuel then of course it wont be as hot as the others !
Other wise dave winger is leading him in the right direction.
I think you may not have read the separate thread (the carb thread that 2003Cobra quoted) that he posted, nor looked at the pictures.....which showed puddles of fuel in the inlet ports when his carbs were taken off. That IS a flooding problem and the one we were referring to.

Maz
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by 2003Cobra »

Maz wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 am
Ravyn wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:14 pm
Maz wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 pm

+1 . You had a pretty major flooding issue. It's extremely likely the "oil" coming out of the exhaust is carbon etc being washed out of the silencers by the excess fuel left in the pipes.
Maz
I think you and cobra may have mis read or mis understood what he said. He said that he left the DRAIN SCREW loose and gas was running out of the carb. This is not a flooding problem.That carb would not have any where near enough fuel in it to fire that cylinder. That's not a flooding problem that's a not enough fuel problem. If that cylinder was not firering due to lack of fuel then of course it wont be as hot as the others !
Other wise dave winger is leading him in the right direction.
I think you may not have read the separate thread (the carb thread that 2003Cobra quoted) that he posted, nor looked at the pictures.....which showed puddles of fuel in the inlet ports when his carbs were taken off. That IS a flooding problem and the one we were referring to.

Maz
That is correct. Years of working on engines of all types has taught me that you fix one problem at a time and if an issue pops up while you are still working on a previous problem they could be related and in this case I would say the probability is pretty high that what he is seeing is carbon being washed out by a previous flooding condition. Yes I saw the comment about the loose drain but as Maz said you combine this post with this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53759 and it sheds a completely different light on his issue(s)
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by ct1500 »

shevik wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:21 am I started my bike up after she sat for the last month while I found her a fresh set of carbs. After some trouble getting the carb floats adjusted properly she started right up at a pretty high idle (2k-3k rpms). I would have busted out the sync to get the idle rpm down but I'm pretty sure she sprayed some oil out of the left exhaust pipe, around half a dozen dime sized drops. I shut the bike off immediately because I don't know if a bike should be run that's experiencing that kind of problem.
Add to this that one of my exhaust pipes, corresponding to cylinder 3, was about half the temperature to the touch as the others. This might be because I had not fully tightened the corresponding float bowls drain bolt and I was losing gas at a steady trickle out the bottom, or maybe it's because this is the cylinder leaking oil into the exhaust? Both? I just don't know enough about this engine.
Now my initial inquiry into this matter seems to indicate that I need to replace my head gasket or valve stem seals on that side, but this is of course not a very charming idea. I would love to get everyone's thoughts before I go in for open heart surgery. :?
From reading your threads I suggest doing a compression test on this engine, especially if it was a non/poor runner at the time you took possession. ;) The key to a successful repair is diagnosis.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »


Cleaned Up
Cleaned Up

Ok, so underneath the left head I've found another leak :? Can anyone tell me what might be causing this?
Attachments

Oil Leak?
Oil Leak?

If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by DenverWinger »

The gear shifter shaft seal is the most common culprit, but in the "before" picture yours looks dry.

Looks like there's oil seeping from the valve cover seal. Won't hurt anything.

But if you decide to fix it, it is most likely the rubber seals under the heads of the valve cover bolts that need replacing, they get hard and go flat, and it is these four rubber pieces that put pressure on the valve cover against the rubber seal that goes around the edge of the cover. So replace those first, if still leaking afterward then look at the main valve cover seal.

Don't try to overtighten the valve cover bolts, they are shoulder bolts and will only screw in "so far" and bottom out. Tightening any further will snap a bolt.

Did you finally get the carburetor setup completed? Running on all four now?
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »

Update:

So I sat down to do the carbs sync and sure enough the smoke and gunk went away after a couple minutes of idling. However when I commenced the carb sync I heard the unmistakable sound of one of my T-belts starting to slip off. I hit the engine kill switch and cycled the starter to confirm. I yanked my radiator off, took the t-belts cover off and low and behold one of the tensioner pulley fasteners rolled out and on to the pavement. The belt was barely clinging to the cam pulley and had slipped around the tensioner pulley completely. I didn't hear any gnarly noises (such as cylinders hitting valves) so I think it's alright.

I assumed that this was the result of sloppy work on my end, maybe I had forgotten to tighten the fasteners all the way. I retimed everything and began to refasten everything when I noticed something peculiar. The bolts never seemed to bottom out, they would just keep going and going, never locking in place, never tight enough; this had been the case the first time I went in but I just went until I got a little resistance and stopped not thinking twice about it. Naturally I concluded that I or the previous owner had stripped the threads, I'm pretty new at this. I turned my attention to the only fastener that even remotely behaved and it snapped in half as soon as I took a ratchet to it. I figured I had really messed up big. I waited for the next day off, bought a tap and die and an easy out set and gingerly proceeded to dig my way out of the mess I had made. Only, the broken fastner came out with a pair of pliars, and when I inspected the threads with an endo scope they all seemed perfectly fine. Some aluminum shavings came out for sure, but only a tiny bit from each hole. I tested the bolts by hand and the all stopped. I didn't dare check with a ratchet again. Instead I just bought lock washers and a new bolt and put it all back together!

As this is the 3rd time now I've had to take the radiator off I decided to go get it rodded while I submit my latest oddysey to all of you for advice.
Are the lockwashers a suitable fix?
If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by DenverWinger »

I wouldn't trust the lockwashers and just barely torqued on anything as critical as timing belt tensioners. That's the last thing you want is one of those working loose on a trip and stranding you somewhere with bent valves.

if you are sure the threads are OK, get new bolts, and be sure you can put proper torque on them. If still acting like threads are stripped, may need to drill/tap to the very next size bigger (probably a non-metric size)
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by 2003Cobra »

DenverWinger is right, I would not trust those lock washers in such a critical area. If you can not torque the bolts down to spec then you will need to probably go to the next size. If you do need to go to the next size you might want to consider a machine shop doing the work. They will have the tools and the experience to do it correctly.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »

Yeah you guys are right. I went back in, took the lock washers off and checked the threads again. I'm really confused, I broke a bolt in half in there, but the threads seem absolutely fine now. Dad and the neighbors agree, none of us can really wrap our heads around it. In any case I ditched the washers and used lock tight instead. Turns out lock washers are proven not to work anyways. Go figure!

I created some markings on the bolts so that if they move even a 10th of a mm i'll know. I'm going to run the bike around the neighborhood after the carb sync is done when I get the radiator back and double check the marks to see if anything came loose. I'll do this regularly and carefully until I'm convinced they're fine or can tell I need to go to a professional. I'll be sure to send you guys an update.

Also, stray question in the meantime, what kind of oil filter do you use? I'd be pretty stoked if I could just go to NAPA or something instead of ordering one online.
If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by DenverWinger »

I don't think the LockTite idea is any better than the lock washers... If the threads are good there's no reason you can't torque a bolt properly.

Bolt shouldn't have snapped if you used proper torque, so sounds like you were trying to over-tighten it. These bolts don't need a huge amount of force, but do need to be very nice and snug, Use a torque wrench for best results... I don't have the torque spec handy but someone will chime in...

Most local Auto parts stores stock the oil filter for the GL1100, you don't have to order them on-line. NAPA brand filters are particularly good, bad reviews on Fram brand.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by 2003Cobra »

It sounds to me you just need to go get new bolts and a couple of torque wrenches, Ft LB and IN LB. You can get then pretty cheap at Harbor freight. Here is a thread that talks about the different torque wrenches and brands viewtopic.php?f=16&t=53323 The harbor freight ones came out pretty good and were pretty much dead on with the calibration. The torque wrenches will come in handy with a multitude of jobs not just on the bike.

If the bolts will not hold the torque then there is a problem with the holes and using Loctite, I think, is just a disaster waiting to happen. If you are going to learn how to wrench, learn how to do it right from the start.

DenverWinger I just took the time to read your signature. That is such a true statement. As they say been there done that.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Ravyn »

Maz wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:55 am
Ravyn wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:14 pm
Maz wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 pm

+1 . You had a pretty major flooding issue. It's extremely likely the "oil" coming out of the exhaust is carbon etc being washed out of the silencers by the excess fuel left in the pipes.
Maz
I think you and cobra may have mis read or mis understood what he said. He said that he left the DRAIN SCREW loose and gas was running out of the carb. This is not a flooding problem.That carb would not have any where near enough fuel in it to fire that cylinder. That's not a flooding problem that's a not enough fuel problem. If that cylinder was not firering due to lack of fuel then of course it wont be as hot as the others !
Other wise dave winger is leading him in the right direction.
I think you may not have read the separate thread (the carb thread that 2003Cobra quoted) that he posted, nor looked at the pictures.....which showed puddles of fuel in the inlet ports when his carbs were taken off. That IS a flooding problem and the one we were referring to.

Maz
YUP. Missed that thread completely. But then I don't read everything in hear anyway.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Rambozo »

If the threads won't hold torque, a Heli-Coil will take care of that and let you keep the original bolt size.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »

Thanks for the replies guys!

I don't think I made myself clear in the last update, the bolts now torque appropriately and seem to be holding fine, the loctite is just a precaution.

I don't really understand what my issue was the first time because it seems as though in order to break a bolt in half I would have had to have stripped the hole pretty badly. Upon inspection now though with an endoscope narrow enough to fit in the hole all 4 seem healthy. Perhaps I stripped the holes, but taking the bolts out rethreaded them? I just don't know. I've taken a look at it with my father and my best friend and they're both as baffled as I am.

In any case I'll be conducting careful testing in my backyard on the center stand to see if the bolts hold at high RPM. If all goes well I'll drive the bike to a mechanic for a second opinion before I assume it's safe enough not to worry about.

I really appreciate all of the input and that the people around here care about my safety. Such a great community, much better than some of the other bike communities I've looked at online.

I'll post another update soon enough! Radiator goes back on probably this saturday at which point I should be able to accomplish a proper carbs sync and an initial inspection of the tensioner pulley bolts to make sure they're holding.
If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Rambozo »

You will never break a bolt off in a stripped hole. there would be nothing to hold it and it would just spin. Breaking bolts is strictly from too much torque or a bolt frozen in the hole from corrosion.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by shevik »

Alright, I was back at it last night.

I've got fuel, a frightful amount of it, pouring out of my exhaust pipe. This didnt happen the last time I fired her up, I seemed to get it running really smoothly before the timing belt started to slip off.

I've isolated the problem to cylinder 2 which was warm but not hot to the touch after I shut it off.

I assume that I have a float problem. The disappointing part is that last time I was in the carbs me and a friend worked really hard on the float levels and carefully inspected the jets etc. We were sure we had done good work. This leads me to believe that float might be punctured and filled with gas. The only test I didn't perform on them was to see if they would sink over night if left in water or gasoline :(

I'm going to take the carbs off tomorrow and perform the test on the suspect float to verify but I sure would love some advice before I do.

Could the problem be something else?
What are your opinions on sealing holes with a little apoxy?
What about buying replacement floats on ebay?

Thanks for the help guys!
If I just work hard enough I should be able to get her out and about before riding season is over.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Rambozo »

Check the needle and seat carefully. Some metal polish on a Q-tip spun in a drill will clean up light damage to the seat. Make sure there are no particles embedded in the needle. Submerge the float in gas and look for bubbles. Bench check the carbs before putting them back on the bike. First blow into the fuel inlet, then turn the carb upside down and make sure you can no longer blow through it. Setup a container for a gravity feed of a few feet and hook up the carb. Make sure it doesn't leak. Tap on the carb and verify no leaking.
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Re: Oil spray from exhaust pipe

Post by Maz »

RE:

What are your opinions on sealing holes with a little apoxy?
What about buying replacement floats on ebay?



Some people have repaired holed/cracked floats to good effect by dipping them in polyurethane, and allowing it to dry. Not tried it myself and always wary that the extra weight of the coating may cause the float to sink a little lower in the float bowl and produce flooding.
For replacement floats (if you need them), contact Wingovations or Randakks.

Maz


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