Engine swap - what else to do?


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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tcdc
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Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by tcdc »



Hello,

I have an 83 GL1100 with a new motor ready to go into it. I hear stators require engine out to replace, so I'm thinking I should put a new one on and not have to worry about it...but I also hear that 1100 stators don't fail, the voltage regulators do taking the stator down with them.

In short, I'm looking for advice on any repairs I should make while the engine is out.

Thanks!


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AZgl1800
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by AZgl1800 »

If the stator in the bike is good, why break something to fix what is not broken?

Just be sure that all of the charging system connections are clean, free of corrosion.

the 3 yellow wires should be cut and soldered together, get rid of that connector.

the connector to the regulator is also suspect look at it closely
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc
tcdc
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by tcdc »

AZgl1800 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:48 pm If the stator in the bike is good, why break something to fix what is not broken?

Just be sure that all of the charging system connections are clean, free of corrosion.

the 3 yellow wires should be cut and soldered together, get rid of that connector.

the connector to the regulator is also suspect look at it closely
I'm actually not sure if either of them are any good. The original motor is seized and the donor motor had already been pulled. I don't suppose there's a way to get good data from them if the engine isn't running, is there?

Also, while I sometimes subscribe to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I also subscribe to "if it's gonna be a royal PITA to replace later and much easier to replace now, it might make sense to replace if there's a risk of failure". So I don't want to necessarily debate the merits as much as I want to know the risk of failure of any component because I've gotten conflicting information in my research thus far.

Definitely hearing consistent support for getting rid of the charging system connections, which are indeed partially corroded anyway, so thanks for reaffirming that.
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AZgl1800
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by AZgl1800 »

You can do a "leakage test" from any of the Yellow wires out of the stator to Frame Ground.

There should NOT be any leakage there at all, that is, the Ohm Meter on Megohms should not even move. Totally Open Circuit to ground.

Winding to Winding, they should all measure the same ohms...
the exact amount is going to be low, it is copper wire, almost a "dead short"

Just looked at my notes, and I didn't write down the nominal ohms value per winding.
RB wrote up a good test post some years back, but even there, I don't see the actual ohms value for a single winding of the stator.

I will take a SWAG and say something around 50 to 100 ohms would be a bunch.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2- ... ost5328025

when you measure the Ohms value of the 3 Stator Windings, if all three of them are within 5% of each other, you have a GOOD STATOR.

Okay, found another post that suggests the ohms value is going to be close to Zero, as in 0.002 ohms e.g.

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2- ... ost3255777
~John

'02 GL1800
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DenverWinger
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by DenverWinger »

The resistance of a good stator is low, but not that low. Something like 1.5 ohm. Should read equal between all three wires, and as stated, no reading to ground.

If you wanted to visually inspect the stator while engine is out of the frame it will cost you a rear cover gasket, then you could visually inspect it for signs of overheating (burnt shellac insulation on the windings). Dark colored shellac is normal from running in the oil, but charred shellac is not.

If you do go in there it wouldn't hurt to do a little PM on the starter clutch while you are at it. Also a good opportunity to check / service other items that are unreachable when the engine is in the frame. The vacuum advance in the "distributor" can be checked with a vacuum brake bleeder. Check the neutral switch, the connection terminal should only read to ground while in neutral. Clean out the oil pump pickup screen, this is another item unreachable while engine is in frame.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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AZgl1800
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by AZgl1800 »

DenverWinger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:51 pm The resistance of a good stator is low, but not that low. Something like 1.5 ohm. Should read equal between all three wires, and as stated, no reading to ground.
Have you made that measurement?
I really would like to get an actual measured value to put into my documents.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc
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DenverWinger
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by DenverWinger »

Yes, Measured readings from many years ago (haven't had to mess with a stator for a very long time.) But that's what my memory brings back as the reading.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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saganaga
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by saganaga »

Why not check the scavenger pump and the clutch while the engine is out?
tcdc
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by tcdc »

Some good info here. Now to find write-ups on these.
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DenverWinger
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by DenverWinger »

Ya know, I just thought of a way to test the Alternator stator with the engine out of the frame.

Tests the starter and starter clutch at the same time. You will need a helper.

Not necessary to have oil in the crankcase for this test, but doesn't hurt either. We won't be spinning the engine enough to hurt anything if engine is dry.

With engine on the ground (or wherever you have it) remove the sparkplugs. Then get a set of jumper cables. Put the cables on the bike, neg on frame, positive on starter power terminal. On other end put the positive to car battery positive. Leave negative disconnected.

Get your volt meter, set to AC volts. connect to two of the three yellow stator wires (call them "A" and "B"). Have your helper touch the Neg of the jumper cable to the car's engine block, Not the battery Neg post. This keeps sparks away from the car battery. Bike engine should crank over fairly quickly with plugs out. While engine is cranking check voltage from the stator, won't be much, maybe 5-10 volts AC. We normally look for 50-70 volts AC with engine running at 3000 RPM...

Repeat the test with the starter, measuring between stator wires "A" and "C". Repeat once more reading between wires "B" and "C". These voltage readings will be low due to low RPM at cranking speed but if all three readings are roughly equal, and you can't measure any continuity between one of the stator wires and the engine block the stator can be declared "Good".

Thread the sparkplugs back in and try the starter one more time. If it sounds like the starter labors under compression it may need service, likely just a set of brushes.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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AZgl1800
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'02 GL1800 lives in Dawsonville, GA now.
My son is going to enjoy it for many years to come.

Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by AZgl1800 »

that sounds like a good test to me DenverWinger .
simple and easy to do.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc
tcdc
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Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by tcdc »

Thanks for the replies. Out of curiosity, what causes the stators to fail if not age?

Anything else I need to pay attention to with the motor out?
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DenverWinger
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1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
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1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Engine swap - what else to do?

Post by DenverWinger »

The most common cause of failure is the connector on the three yellow wires between the stator and bike harness usually found by the battery box, it gets corroded, then heats up and melts the plastic and things short out. Best preventive fix is to "cancel" the connector and just solder the stator wires instead. Also check the connector at the rectifier/regulator box, the three yellow wires can get hot there, too.

Another less common failure is a shorted diode in the rec/reg unit, causing an overload on the stator. This will manifest itself in low charging voltage when the bike is running. The fix is to replace the unit. OEM units are hard to come by, but you are actually better off with a modern aftermarket replacement unit anyway, the new aftermarket ones are significantly improved using MOSFET technology.

So if all stator connections are kept in good shape the stator should last a very long time.


♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark
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