Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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Lucky07
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Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »



Would anyone know how to completely bypass the auto cancelling turn signals on a '83 aspy?

I know about the angle sensor up front. I assume I could just unplug that to get it out of the equation. That leaves me with the speedo and the timer portions to deal with.

I drive trucks for a living so I'm used to having to cancel signals myself. It's an automatic reaction for me now. I'll even cancel them in my pickup or the car half the time before the vehicle can do it on its own, or it shuts off right as my fingers hit the stick.

Signaling early can sometimes help avoid being put in dangerous situations. When I'm coming up to an intersection, trying to pay attention to what's going on ahead of me, it's a major pain in the arse (and wastes valuable "attention" resources) to have to keep an eye on my turn signals and turn it back on 3-4-5 times (so I don't end up getting rear ended) before I ever get to where I'm turning.

Turn signals are meant for signaling your INTENTION. Not for signaling a movement. I don't think Mother Honda understood this when they designed the system. I've read up a bit on this and even the new 1800s have the same problems. This is a design problem not a malfunction, the system seems to be working as it should and the way it is designed makes the entire thing useless for me.

So, how to I get rid of this feature?


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Rambozo
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Rambozo »

I'm with you on this on my GL1500. It almost never cancels when I want. Either way to early or a little late. Honda does have a solution for you after many years, but you probably won't like it. On the new 1800 there is a checkbox to disable this in the software.
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Lucky07
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

Rambozo wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:07 pm I'm with you on this on my GL1500. It almost never cancels when I want. Either way to early or a little late. Honda does have a solution for you after many years, but you probably won't like it. On the new 1800 there is a checkbox to disable this in the software.
Funny that a company that can make such a reliable machine, yet it takes them 37 years or so to figure out one of their features doesn't work right and give riders a way to turn it off.

I've always had older machines precisely because I don't want "software" gumming things up. Just bought my first ever new car last fall actually. Only reason being my wife went back to work and needed something 100% reliable, if it was up to me I'd sill be driving my old 1990 Olds Cutlass.

I've read that apparently there's a little solenoid or something in there that sends the signal switch back towards center for the auto cancel. I wonder if I could just disconnect that but leave it in place somehow. That way when it tries to auto-cancel it'll just do it's thing without actually being attached to anything...
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by AZgl1800 »

I hate AutoCancel....

where I live, my road is a County Road, with the approach so narrow, and an immediate RR crossing just 2 car lengths from a major US Highway...... the Semi trucks just keep barrelling down on me....

So, I start with the Turn Signal back a 1/4 mile and then just let the bike coast down, with an occasional foot on brake, until they wake up and move over into the next lane.... it is a 4-lane highway. I nearly always use my Left Arm as a turn signal just to get their attention.

Even though for the 1 mile that our town exists, and the speed is marked at 45 mph, they barrel thru at 55 mph making it extremely dangerous for us local yokels...

we have a lot of intersection wrecks, because of our little/narrow town streets, and no center lane to use.
~John

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Lucky07
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

Tore the switch on the handlebar off yesterday. The "solenoid" for the auto cancel can't be taken out of the equation. It is simply a magnetic plunger, there is a spring behind it pushing it towards the signal switch (button you play with). There are 3 depressions on the back side of the switch and when you turn the signal on the plunger being pushed forward is what holds your signal on. The button its'self always returns to center without this plunger against it. Auto cancel works by putting power to the magnet for a fraction of a second pulling the plunger back and allowing the switch to go back to center on it's own.

Seeing as how a mechanical fix isn't going to work here I was looking at the wiring diagram yesterday and traced everything as follows. I'm just going to use numbers here not colors as it's just easier to interpret that way, from left to right on the diagram.

From the auto cancel unit:

Wires 1,2,3 : Angle sensor
Wire 4: Horn Button/solenoid
Wire 5: Cluster (Speed Signal)
Wire 6: Switch and signal light
Wire 7: Switch and signal light
Wire 8: Ign, fuse, signal switch
Wire 9: Ground

From the signal switch on the handlebar:

Wire 1: Headlight low
Wire 2: Headlight High
Wire 3: Position Light Right ("Run" Circuit)
Wire 4: Position Light Left ("Run" Circuit)
Wire 5: 3 way split to Left Signal Front, Rear and Cancel Unit
Wire 6: 3 way split to Right Signal Front, Rear and Cancel Unit.
Wire 7: Signal Relay Power Feed (for da blinking)
Wire 8: ("Run" Circuit)
Wire 9: Headlight ("Run" Circuit)
Wire 10: Horn
Wire 11: Solenoid
Wire 12: Ground


Haven't tested anything on the bike yet but my plan now I think is to try and cut the feed from Wires 5 and 6 between the split to the signal lights and the Cancel Unit. I'm under the assumption that the cancel unit basically remains on standby until it gets a signal from those wires telling it that one of the signal lights has been turned on. When it gets that signal it checks speed, starts a timer and then monitors angle sensor and speed. Once any of the conditions required for Auto Cancel are met it sends momentary power to the solenoid pulling the plunger back and allowing the thumb switch to return to center on it's own, effectively turning off the signals.

I plan to remove the cancel units ability to know if the signal lights are on or not. If it always thinks they are off it'll never put any other of it's duties into motion.

and then ... for the piece de resistance, I'm going to try to find a small push button switch (like the horn or starter button size) that can be discretely mounted near the signal controls on the handlebar (I just want it to look good/unobtrusive). This little button is then going to be wired to the Cancel solenoid. This means that the switch will maintain its designed method of being turned off (which may be easier on it) and I get to ditch this Auto Signal Cancelling crap, all the while gaining push button cancel on the signals which will be pretty cool.

Anyways, so that's the plan for now. Going to start digging into the wires within the next few days, I hope my theory on this pans out.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Rambozo »

Without any power to the magnet your's do not push to cancel by default? Or does pushing just cause a pulse to be sent to the magnet? From what you described it seems that if the magnet never got power, you would have what you want.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

Rambozo wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:19 pm Without any power to the magnet your's do not push to cancel by default? Or does pushing just cause a pulse to be sent to the magnet? From what you described it seems that if the magnet never got power, you would have what you want.
Nope, the switch is just goes left and right on these things, pushing it in just presses it up against the plunger thingy meant to hold it to the left or right. The magnet only gets power from the cancelling unit, turning them off by hand you just have to move it back to center yourself.

I thought about simply cutting power to the magnet but I'm hesitant just in case that causes issues with something else. The cancelling unit would likely repeatedly try to turn the signals off in that case, who knows what could come of that. Likely nothing but I would rather not play any more diagnostics after I make changes the first time if some weird issue should arise. If I remove it's ability to ever know if the signals are on it should just always stay in a standby state. The push to cancel I would add is just for convenience/cool factor.
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Lucky07
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

Alright so it turns out this may be much easier (big understatement here) than I thought. The wiring diagrams don't show it but there is actually a connector 6 inches away from the cancel unit. It's raining here so I'm not going for a test ride but I can get the cancel unit to shut the signal off by spinning the front tire by hand and making the bike think it's made a turn. Shuts off every time. Unplug the whole unit and voila, no more turning off on it's own.

So...

Step 1: Remove false tank
Step 2: Unplug Signal Cancel Unit (left side above rectifier)
Step 3: Hold cancel unit in right hand (unless you are left handed ... then use your left hand, we need power for this one)
Step 4: Throw the damn thing as far as you can while cursing Mother Honda as you exorcise your Wing of this demonic technology.

I'll know once I take a test ride if this affects anything else but I doubt it at this point. Everything seems to be working and the signals no longer cancel themselves.

Now I just have to find a push button switch, rig it up to that solenoid to get my push button cancel and I'm golden.
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Cattmando
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Cattmando »

Update? It's been 9 months.

I'm fiddling with the same issues though more troublesome: I have no power to the unlocking solenoid. Without power, the spring loaded plunger keeps the switch locked so no turn signals. Also, I've completely disassembled the switch. Easy enough to remove the plunger and spring thus disabling the auto cancel but then ya have to hold the lights on manually.

In neither my Clymrt nor Haynes manuals can I get a clear look at the wiring diagram and no mention anywhere of the cancel unit. Your mention of its location is the first I've seen.

More to come
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Lucky07
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

Cattmando wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:09 pm Update? It's been 9 months.

I'm fiddling with the same issues though more troublesome: I have no power to the unlocking solenoid. Without power, the spring loaded plunger keeps the switch locked so no turn signals. Also, I've completely disassembled the switch. Easy enough to remove the plunger and spring thus disabling the auto cancel but then ya have to hold the lights on manually.

In neither my Clymrt nor Haynes manuals can I get a clear look at the wiring diagram and no mention anywhere of the cancel unit. Your mention of its location is the first I've seen.

More to come
Without the module they just work as regular signals that must be manually cancelled just like any normal bike. Doesn't affect anything else.

Sounds like something is up with the switch on the handlebars on yours.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Cattmando »

Ya think? I'll get back to it tomorrow and find why the B/Bk wire has no power. That's first. I did run to the garage and found the control unit, lots of wires. It doesn't show up in either of my manuals. I've ordered a Honda manual, shoulda done when I first got the bike. Tho this is my 3rd 1100, I'm still learning.

BTW, I've plugged in a solid state flasher and LED lights, they all work. I'll power the magnet with jumpers to make sure it works then trace where the break happened.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Cattmando »

With no power to the magnet, my switch I locked to center. Direct application of 12V operates the magnet.
I've removed the plunger so have manual operation but must hold the switch. Assume one of the other modules is not working correctly,and, again, my off brand manuals are no help.

I have my original Honda GL1000 and GL1500 manuals but neither are any help in this situation. A used GL1100 manual and a used left switch are on the way. Currently, it's back together minus the plunger so we're good for now.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Lucky07 »

There may be nothing wrong with the actual wiring. Could be the unit that's toast. Speed, steering angle and time are the three things that'll cause that little black box to send power to the magnet to pull the plunger and allow the signal button to return to center on it's own.

All 3 inputs go into the box (that's what most of the wires are) and then there's a little gnome in there with a whiteboard that calculates everything and decides when it's time to turn the signals off. Mine wasn't too good at math I think because there was no method to the madness, that's why I evicted him. Maybe your gnome died in there, was the bike stored for any decent length of time lol?

The plunger has to be in there as it is what acts as a retainer when the signals are on, without it the button won't stay in either "signal on" position. But you should be able to put the signal on and off manually with that self cancel unit completely removed. And it should work the exact same as any other motorcycle without self cancelling signals. That's how mine is now. All I did was unplug the magic box and that's it.
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Cattmando »

Thanks for the response, Lucky. Yes, this bike was down for 7 years. Your explanation clears up a couple things. I had the front end torn apart for new steering bearings but only the angle sensor was involved in that. I think I put it back together correctly.

Replacement switch coming.
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Cattmando
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Re: Disabling auto cancelling turn signals???

Post by Cattmando »

Received my replacement left hand switch cluster. Turns out, my original switch is broken. A piece of plastic is missing off the back of the thumb switch which leaves a small hole exactly the size of. The little tit on the end of the electro-magnet plunger. This effectively locks the switch at center. With the plunger removed, manual operation works, it requires the switch to be held on. Replacement switch works as it should.

Also, I now understand power to the solenoid is only occurs briefly when an order is given by the system to cancel. With the switch cluster replaced, it may all work as designed. I'll do the replacement after the holiday and let y'all know.


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