Oil and water pump


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
Post Reply
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »



So I have a 1980 GL 1100 with 80,000 miles on it everything ran perfect until one day I was driving down the road and it started to overheat and the oil pressure light came on I got it home pulled it apart and figured out the water pump would not turn pulled the front case offto find out that the water pump will freely turn so that leads me to believe that the shaft is locked down my question is what drives that shaft and can I get to it with the engine on the bike also curious if the sump pump in lockdown and how to get to it


User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 22049
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by WingAdmin »

Killgore1151 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:59 pm So I have a 1980 GL 1100 with 80,000 miles on it everything ran perfect until one day I was driving down the road and it started to overheat and the oil pressure light came on I got it home pulled it apart and figured out the water pump would not turn pulled the front case offto find out that the water pump will freely turn so that leads me to believe that the shaft is locked down my question is what drives that shaft and can I get to it with the engine on the bike also curious if the sump pump in lockdown and how to get to it
It's driven off the same shaft that drives the front oil pump. You can find a complete how-to article on replacing it here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=275
Old Fogey
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Old Fogey »

The water pump shaft is driven through the scavenge pump. The drive part in that pump can split and wreck the scavenge pump. First move is to remove the front transmission cover and water pump, then see if the shaft will turn. If not, the water pump is the problem; if it does either scavenge pump problem as described or the drive chain has broken (that would be unusual but could happen if the scavenge pump was locked up). Either way, to fix the last two possibilities, the engine has to come out.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )
User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 22049
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by WingAdmin »

Old Fogey wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:11 pm The water pump shaft is driven through the scavenge pump. The drive part in that pump can split and wreck the scavenge pump. First move is to remove the front transmission cover and water pump, then see if the shaft will turn. If not, the water pump is the problem; if it does either scavenge pump problem as described or the drive chain has broken (that would be unusual but could happen if the scavenge pump was locked up). Either way, to fix the last two possibilities, the engine has to come out.
Correct, except for one correction: the water pump is actually driven through the main oil pump. The scavenge oil pump is at the back of the engine.
Old Fogey
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Old Fogey »

WingAdmin wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:00 am
Old Fogey wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:11 pm The water pump shaft is driven through the scavenge pump. The drive part in that pump can split and wreck the scavenge pump. First move is to remove the front transmission cover and water pump, then see if the shaft will turn. If not, the water pump is the problem; if it does either scavenge pump problem as described or the drive chain has broken (that would be unusual but could happen if the scavenge pump was locked up). Either way, to fix the last two possibilities, the engine has to come out.
Correct, except for one correction: the water pump is actually driven through the main oil pump. The scavenge oil pump is at the back of the engine.
Sorry Scott, we are both partly wrong. The drive shaft at the rear of the engine has two flats. The drive sprocket and the scavenge pump drive locate on these flats. That drives the shaft through to the main oil pump, the centre rotor of which is driven by a pin through the shaft. The end of the shaft again has two flats which locate into the water pump. So even if the pin drive in the main pump fails (unlikely) the water pump would still be driven from the rear sprocket unless the shaft breaks (even more unlikely).I was wrong in that if the centre drive in the scavenge pump breaks (I've seen that happen when the Plate B rivets get stuck in there) it may not lock up the shaft, the shaft would still keep turning. Or not, as above.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »

Old Fogey wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:33 pm
WingAdmin wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:00 am
Old Fogey wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:11 pm The water pump shaft is driven through the scavenge pump. The drive part in that pump can split and wreck the scavenge pump. First move is to remove the front transmission cover and water pump, then see if the shaft will turn. If not, the water pump is the problem; if it does either scavenge pump problem as described or the drive chain has broken (that would be unusual but could happen if the scavenge pump was locked up). Either way, to fix the last two possibilities, the engine has to come out.
Correct, except for one correction: the water pump is actually driven through the main oil pump. The scavenge oil pump is at the back of the engine.
Sorry Scott, we are both partly wrong. The drive shaft at the rear of the engine has two flats. The drive sprocket and the scavenge pump drive locate on these flats. That drives the shaft through to the main oil pump, the centre rotor of which is driven by a pin through the shaft. The end of the shaft again has two flats which locate into the water pump. So even if the pin drive in the main pump fails (unlikely) the water pump would still be driven from the rear sprocket unless the shaft breaks (even more unlikely).I was wrong in that if the centre drive in the scavenge pump breaks (I've seen that happen when the Plate B rivets get stuck in there) it may not lock up the shaft, the shaft would still keep turning. Or not, as above.
So my shaft is locked down the water pump turns free I can turn the motor over continuously and the shaft Will never move however the bike is drivable I don't understand how it hasn't broke something further further for example to my understanding the pin that runs through the engine is chain driven if it's locked down is that chain going to be broke or did it shred every gear that it's on the reason that I'm asking is I was only a few miles from home when it done it I drove the bike home it's still shifted not really good but it's still done it and it didn't lose any power just very confused on what's going on really want to understand how it works
User avatar
Rambozo
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:36 pm
Location: Disneyland
Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 Aspencade
Ducati Monster

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Rambozo »

If you rode it a few miles with the oil pressure light on, the engine will be junk. Start looking for another one.
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »

Rambozo wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:47 pm If you rode it a few miles with the oil pressure light on, the engine will be junk. Start looking for another one.
Probably so but it's not making any knocking or clicking noises
Old Fogey
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Old Fogey »

If the water pump drive shaft won't turn, you have NO alternative but to pull the engine out and strip the rear cover off. It sounds just like I have described above; either the scavenge pump is locked up or the drive chain has snapped, or both. No further diagnosis is possible with the engine in the frame. The gear train will be ok as the damage is in a seperate compartment, but almost certainly the crank bearings will be wrecked.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »

Old Fogey wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:47 am If the water pump drive shaft won't turn, you have NO alternative but to pull the engine out and strip the rear cover off. It sounds just like I have described above; either the scavenge pump is locked up or the drive chain has snapped, or both. No further diagnosis is possible with the engine in the frame. The gear train will be ok as the damage is in a seperate compartment, but almost certainly the crank bearings will be wrecked.
Okay thank y'all sooo much lots of help are theses engines hard to rebuild
User avatar
Rambozo
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:36 pm
Location: Disneyland
Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 Aspencade
Ducati Monster

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Rambozo »

Killgore1151 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:14 am Okay thank y'all sooo much lots of help are theses engines hard to rebuild
Pretty straight forward to rebuild, but hard to get parts. Typically it is easier at this time to get a good used engine.
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »

Rambozo wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:44 am
Killgore1151 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:14 am Okay thank y'all sooo much lots of help are theses engines hard to rebuild
Pretty straight forward to rebuild, but hard to get parts. Typically it is easier at this time to get a good used engine.
Well okay losts to think about thank you
Old Fogey
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Old Fogey »

Killgore1151 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:55 am
Rambozo wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:44 am
Killgore1151 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:14 am Okay thank y'all sooo much lots of help are theses engines hard to rebuild
Pretty straight forward to rebuild, but hard to get parts. Typically it is easier at this time to get a good used engine.
Well okay losts to think about thank you
With you living in the States, another engine would be the way to go. It might pay you to go to your profile and say where you are located; there might be someone nearby who can help.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )
User avatar
Rambozo
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:36 pm
Location: Disneyland
Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 Aspencade
Ducati Monster

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Rambozo »

If you have the time, you might as well take yours apart and find out what is wrong with it. You've got nothing to lose.
If the condition is ok and you can repair the problem, that would be great. If not, you can still look for another engine.
Old Fogey
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Old Fogey »

Rambozo wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:04 am If you have the time, you might as well take yours apart and find out what is wrong with it. You've got nothing to lose.
If the condition is ok and you can repair the problem, that would be great. If not, you can still look for another engine.
Well, that's a point if you have the mechanical knowledge and tools to do it, if for no other reason than it would be interesting to know just what the problem is. Most parts are available, either new or used, but crank bearings are a major problem if you should need them. Which is why, in your place, I would go for the other engine. You WILL need a workshop manual.
'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

( Seriously, you haven't read all 115 pages of my http://www.wingovations.com website ?? :shock: )
User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 22049
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (sold)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2012 Suzuki Burgman 400 (wife's!)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by WingAdmin »

Old Fogey wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:12 am
Rambozo wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:04 am If you have the time, you might as well take yours apart and find out what is wrong with it. You've got nothing to lose.
If the condition is ok and you can repair the problem, that would be great. If not, you can still look for another engine.
Well, that's a point if you have the mechanical knowledge and tools to do it, if for no other reason than it would be interesting to know just what the problem is. Most parts are available, either new or used, but crank bearings are a major problem if you should need them. Which is why, in your place, I would go for the other engine. You WILL need a workshop manual.
Right. The most likely thing to be scrap in an engine that ran without oil is the crank bearings - and they are the hardest parts to find. They aren't universal - there are several different sizes (color coded) and are fit to individual engines, so you have to get the right ones. They haven't been made new for many years, and are next to impossible to find used. Even if you bought a scrap engine for parts, chances are the crank bearings in it aren't going to be the correct ones for your engine, and you wouldn't know until you opened them both up.
Killgore1151
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:52 pm
Location: Elberton ga usa
Motorcycle: 1980 gl 1100

Re: Oil and water pump

Post by Killgore1151 »

So I've taken all of y'all's advice and took it one step further if I'm going to pull the engine anyway I might as well make a chopper out of it there's probably already answers to these questions if so would appreciate a redirect or an answer either way but my main concerns are what is the best way to delete the front fairing and put a regular style headlight on it also does the weight on the front of the bike have to stay there there's a warning sticker on it saying not to remove it but if I take the bags off and all of the interstate package will I still have to keep the weight sure do appreciate it thank you


Post Reply