Head gasket and valve seal replacement question


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LAB3
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Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »



Well, crap! Looks like a bit of oil has shown up in my coolant reserve tank and I'm hoping it's just a matter of a head gasket in need of replacement. It doesn't appear that there's any water in the oil although I've yet to fully drain it so I'm hoping to get lucky on this one. Since the heads are coming off it seems to make sense to also freshen up the valve seals while I'm at it, seems pretty straight forward.

I've read through the tutorial on head gasket replacement and taken a look through the Clymer manual and have a question: Does the cam drive pulley NEED to be removed from the cam in order to swap the valve seals? If so, does removing the drive pulley require a puller to get it off? The tutorial mentions using a vice and blocks of wood, don't have access to a vice at the moment, thanks in advance!


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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by DenverWinger »

Head gasket rarely leaks oil into the coolant - too much gasket and o-rings on the flow reducers.

Most common way for oil to get into coolant is seeping thru water pump seals. Save the head gasket money and check water pump instead.
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LAB3
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »

I'm getting a large white cloud upon start up and have lost about 1/2 gallon of coolant in the last 1,000 miles of use. When cranking the engine without starting you can watch the coolant (clear lines) being forced up into the reserve tank, to me this says head gasket but I'm open to suggestions.
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by joecoolsuncle »

the fit between cam and pulley is not a press fit. on my 1200, i can pull the pulley with my fingers and wiggling. maybe have to use a slight prying from the sides.
That said, on donor bike, there was a light rusting on the pulleys and i had to use a jaw puller to remove them. do not apply much pressure to the outside of the pulley, you will damage teeth and possibly bend/warp the pulley. i will remind you of my "bent" pulley dilemma so maybe you can report back on your experience.two replacement pulleys and a cam replacement and i still have a slight pulley wobble! i have never replaced valve seals on a gold wing, but i have replaced a cam. same story, looking to fix the pulley wobble. and you have to remove the cam bearing cradle, which includes the rocker arms. this will expose the valve spring keepers, retainers and ultimately, the seals.
This would be a perfect time for a favor. before tear down, maybe you video the cam pulleys rotating at idle, before and after the repair?
thanks
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DenverWinger
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by DenverWinger »

LAB3 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:39 am I'm getting a large white cloud upon start up and have lost about 1/2 gallon of coolant in the last 1,000 miles of use. When cranking the engine without starting you can watch the coolant (clear lines) being forced up into the reserve tank, to me this says head gasket but I'm open to suggestions.
You didn't say that before. Clearly head gaskets are leaking.
A local inventor has figured a way to turn a sausage grinder backward to manufacture pigs. :lol:

♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:
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LAB3
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »

DenverWinger wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:48 am
You didn't say that before. Clearly head gaskets are leaking.
A wise man knows what he doesn't know, it's always best to ask questions before coming to conclusions.
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LAB3
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »

joecoolsuncle wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:16 am the fit between cam and pulley is not a press fit. on my 1200, i can pull the pulley with my fingers and wiggling. maybe have to use a slight prying from the sides.
That said, on donor bike, there was a light rusting on the pulleys and i had to use a jaw puller to remove them. do not apply much pressure to the outside of the pulley, you will damage teeth and possibly bend/warp the pulley. i will remind you of my "bent" pulley dilemma so maybe you can report back on your experience.two replacement pulleys and a cam replacement and i still have a slight pulley wobble! i have never replaced valve seals on a gold wing, but i have replaced a cam. same story, looking to fix the pulley wobble. and you have to remove the cam bearing cradle, which includes the rocker arms. this will expose the valve spring keepers, retainers and ultimately, the seals.
This would be a perfect time for a favor. before tear down, maybe you video the cam pulleys rotating at idle, before and after the repair?
thanks
Thanks for the info, a jaw type puller is what I had in mind. I'll see if my addled mind will allow me to remember to record a video. I'll be doing this out in the parking lot where I'm staying and my best bet is I'll be fighting daylight leaving by the time I'm done.

Still have the same question though, if the cam carrier assembly comes off as a unit and exposes the valve springs, does the pulley actually NEED to be removed?
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Rednaxs60
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Read your thread. For the head removal and head gasket replacement, you need to remove the timing belt(s), both depending on the side affected. The timing belt pulley should come off with the head, don't have to remove. Only worked on a 1200 engine, but the engine design should be the same. The cam should not have to be removed.

Doing the valve stem seals, have to remove the cam and timing belt pulley. Do this after you have the head on the bench. My question is why do the valve stem seals? If there is some blue oil smoke on start, this is primarily becasue the rings are weak, cylinder is glazed and the rings don't seal well - can't do anything about this unless you want to have the cylinder(s) honed and new rings installed. If the smoke goes away within a couple of minute, I would leave alone.

Another item to look at while you are doing this is the valve seats, if you do the valve stem seals. You should find that the intake valve seats are fairly pristine, but the exhaust valve seats may have crud built up on them. If this is the case, a short valve grind of the valve seat to clean these up would be in order. You have to take the valve spring off to get at the valve stem seals, easy to push the valves out for a look. Keep track of what valve goes where. Doesn't hurt to look.

Good luck.
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joecoolsuncle
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by joecoolsuncle »

there is a plate behind the pulley. it has 3 screws iirc. those screws have to come out so the plate can be removed. i was getting so good at pulling cam sprockets, i just went ahead and pulled it. lol
i used a smallish two ear jaw (gear) puller that fit between the pulley spokes and grabbed the inner circle which fits over the cam and has the keyway in it. i also used a small slide hammer to pull the used sprockets off the donor bike. the slide hammer had a 2 ear puller attachment screwed onto it. i had to hold those onto the sprocket with zip ties because they would slip off the sprocket. the regular puller worked much better than the sl








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LAB3
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »

Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:51 am Read your thread. For the head removal and head gasket replacement, you need to remove the timing belt(s), both depending on the side affected. The timing belt pulley should come off with the head, don't have to remove. Only worked on a 1200 engine, but the engine design should be the same. The cam should not have to be removed.

Doing the valve stem seals, have to remove the cam and timing belt pulley. Do this after you have the head on the bench. My question is why do the valve stem seals? If there is some blue oil smoke on start, this is primarily becasue the rings are weak, cylinder is glazed and the rings don't seal well - can't do anything about this unless you want to have the cylinder(s) honed and new rings installed. If the smoke goes away within a couple of minute, I would leave alone.

Another item to look at while you are doing this is the valve seats, if you do the valve stem seals. You should find that the intake valve seats are fairly pristine, but the exhaust valve seats may have crud built up on them. If this is the case, a short valve grind of the valve seat to clean these up would be in order. You have to take the valve spring off to get at the valve stem seals, easy to push the valves out for a look. Keep track of what valve goes where. Doesn't hurt to look.

Good luck.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated. I'm doing the valve seals "Because they're there" and I'm gplanning to inspect and lap the valves if needed as you mentioned. Have a Versah top end gasket kit on the way due to a minor leak in one valve cover, being to to replace the exhaust gaskets and those other small o-rings and gaskets which will be there if I need them. Another bit of insurance for the road head.
I'm selling good clean fresh hay. If you want some that's already passed through the horse, that comes a little cheaper!

The best advice on internet motorcycle repair forums comes from posting the wrong answer to your own question.
joecoolsuncle
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by joecoolsuncle »

LAB3 wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:37 pm
Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:51 am Read your thread. For the head removal and head gasket replacement, you need to remove the timing belt(s), both depending on the side affected. The timing belt pulley should come off with the head, don't have to remove. Only worked on a 1200 engine, but the engine design should be the same. The cam should not have to be removed.

Doing the valve stem seals, have to remove the cam and timing belt pulley. Do this after you have the head on the bench. My question is why do the valve stem seals? If there is some blue oil smoke on start, this is primarily becasue the rings are weak, cylinder is glazed and the rings don't seal well - can't do anything about this unless you want to have the cylinder(s) honed and new rings installed. If the smoke goes away within a couple of minute, I would leave alone.

Another item to look at while you are doing this is the valve seats, if you do the valve stem seals. You should find that the intake valve seats are fairly pristine, but the exhaust valve seats may have crud built up on them. If this is the case, a short valve grind of the valve seat to clean these up would be in order. You have to take the valve spring off to get at the valve stem seals, easy to push the valves out for a look. Keep track of what valve goes where. Doesn't hurt to look.

Good luck.
Thanks for your input, much appreciated. I'm doing the valve seals "Because they're there" and I'm gplanning to inspect and lap the valves if needed as you mentioned. Have a Versah top end gasket kit on the way due to a minor leak in one valve cover, being to to replace the exhaust gaskets and those other small o-rings and gaskets which will be there if I need them. Another bit of insurance for the road head.
back in the days, honda advised against lapping their valves. not sure if true about goldwing valves. they recommended cutting the seats, and replacing the valves. may be you want to research that. they talked about a hardened face and lapping would cause premature failure. ?. just a thought. never ran across a jap motorcycle engine that had damaged valves other than special purpose engines that had steep slopes on cams and heavier valve/spring combinations. those would pop the head off the stem before they would leak.
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LAB3
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by LAB3 »

From what I've read here and other places lapping is OK but grinding will destroy the coating on the valve.
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The best advice on internet motorcycle repair forums comes from posting the wrong answer to your own question.
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2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom (sold)
2008 GL1800 (sold)
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Re: Head gasket and valve seal replacement question

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Lapping the valves is to remove any carbon/crud build up on the valve seat.

Exhaust port gaskets - make sure all the old ones are removed. First time I did mine, there were three gaskets in each port.


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"
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