Engine only rotates counter clockwise.


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padutch47
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:33 pm
Location: United States
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda Goldwing GL1500
81 GL1100 Standard
82 GL1100 Interstate

Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »



Just purchased an 81 GL1100 with a "locked up " engine, or so said the owner. Since it had a pair of brand new Metzeler tires on it and the bike was pristine and CHEAP, (less than the value of the tires) I bought it figuring a worst case scenario would be an engine change and not much work to find out and, I had another good engine. As a retired Mercedes Benz tech, I'm a pretty good mechanic, but apparently not a great Honda mechanic. lol I've pulled the plugs, timing and valve covers, Flywheel plug and stator plug during the diagnosis process to determine just where the problem hides. Belt timing, valve adjustment, rockers and waterpump, all normal. Now here's what's puzzling me. Not being terribly familiar with this engine, I'm at a loss as to why I can rotate the engine without any interference although it does make a measured clicking noise much like a really large ratchet, but try to turn it clockwise and it will lock up just like a piston hitting a valve the minute I attempt to rotate the engine. I've drained the oil which was in pretty good condition and carefully checked it for any kind of metal residue and found none. ran a bore camera into each cylinder and they look outstanding and even made a futile attempt to insert the camera into the galley through both the oil fill hole and drain. I hate just giving up and replacing the engine just because I have one and I'm not smart enough to diagnose the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Rambozo
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by Rambozo »

Have you inspected the starter? It has a one-way clutch and if the starter is locked up, maybe that is your issue? Just a guess.
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Rednaxs60
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Just a thought and you probably know this. The engine turns clockwise looking at it from the front of the engine. To turn the engine you should be using the rotor bolt at the rear left side of the engine - the rotor bolt could back off if you turn it the wrong way as if to remove the bolt. Not recommended to turn it CCW (looking at it from the front of the engine) except for a small amount. Using the rotor bolt, you go from the floor to the top of the engine to turn the engine CW - looking from the front of the engine you turn the rotor bolt CCW - tightening the rotor bolt, translates into turning the engine in the correct CW rotation.

Check the timing marks on the flywheel and timing belt camshaft pulleys and make sure these are correct.

Good luck.
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joecoolsuncle
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by joecoolsuncle »

what they said. note.......do not pull the starter and then try to turn engine, bad things happen!
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padutch47
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81 GL1100 Standard
82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

Thanks to all but everything suggested has been checked with the exception of joecoolsuncle's post, "bad things happen" ... better explain because the starter had already been removed aod I'm sure the engine had already been rotated every way possible before I ever got it but if it had not been, I closed that deal! Guess you better explain the bad things and can they be rectified. lol
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by WingAdmin »

padutch47 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:50 am Thanks to all but everything suggested has been checked with the exception of joecoolsuncle's post, "bad things happen" ... better explain because the starter had already been removed aod I'm sure the engine had already been rotated every way possible before I ever got it but if it had not been, I closed that deal! Guess you better explain the bad things and can they be rectified. lol
The starter may be removed, but the one-way sprag clutch is not part of the actual starter. The starter engages a chain, which connects to a sprag clutch at the rear of the engine. If that chain is bound up, or something is causing that clutch to bind, it will prevent the engine from rotating backward.

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padutch47
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81 GL1100 Standard
82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

Thank you Scott for both the schematic and the detailed explanation. Since the starter had already been taken out by the previous owner before I got it, I have only attempted to rotate it with the it removed. If I'm lucky, that's what's locking it up. Tomorrow's yet another day and I'll put the starter back in and see if that makes a difference. Fingers crossed! lol
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by joecoolsuncle »

there have been reports of the starter driven chain falling inside the engine if rotated with starter removed. also, bench test the strter before installing. if the starter doesnt jump with force as it starts to spin, go ahead and rebuild it now.
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padutch47
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82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

Thanks uncle, I'll check that.
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padutch47
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

OK all, latest development in the "As the stomach turns" drama ... lol Tested the starter and it's actually seized tight! Think this is what the previous owner started out trying to find but the problem escaped him. Is it possible the starter clutch is seized and THAT's the actual problem resulting in a burnt up starter? The engine itself cannot be seized as I can, (rather I should or not) rotate the engine backwards with the starter out. With the starter IN however, everything is seized and nothing will even budge trying to crank it from the front crankshaft bolt either way. To quote Alice, "curiouser and curiouser" ...
joecoolsuncle
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by joecoolsuncle »

yep. starter can seize. the starter clutch can, but not likely. it usually fails the other way, it fails to engage.
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padutch47
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

OK then, if we've all run out of best guesses on how to fix it I guess the next step it to pull the engine and strip the rear end off and look inside, huh?
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by DenverWinger »

Can you find the chain with starter spocket still hanging in the opening where the starter is supposed to go?

Try rotating the engine in either direction, or rock the motion to see if the chain and sprocket show up. Do this with bike leaning on the side stand, if the chain and sprocket become visible in the hole where the starter goes you might be OK. On Sidestand, the chain and sprocket should be hanging right there, ready for you to insert the starter into the splines of the sprocket gear.

If you can't see a sprocket hanging loosely by a chain where the starter goes the chain is probably wound up inside the alternator case and the engine will need to come out to find out what happened to the chain and sprocket...........
A local inventor has figured a way to turn a sausage grinder backward to manufacture pigs. :lol:

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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by slickster »

Btw, I recently pulled the starter on my '80, it was full of grey/black dusty crud, cleaned it out, polished armature, replaced brushes, works great, good luck on hunt, let us know what you find
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padutch47
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81 GL1100 Standard
82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

No, chain and sprocket are hanging right where they should be. I've inserted the starter back into the sprocket and bolted it up but starter was sized and couldn't move engine in either direction. Removed starter again and could rotate engine CC again from front crankshaft bolt with a socket and again, it makes a loud clicking noise like the timed steady clicking of a ratchet, try to turn clockwise and it moves 1/2" and binds like it's hit something immovable. I'm leaning heavily on the chain binding into a gear or the starter clutch having come apart somehow but these are just a guess
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by slickster »

Figure it out? Don't leave us hanging...
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padutch47
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82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

LOL ... been really tied up with more pressing jobs and had to back burner this one for a while. Promise I will report my find as soon as I have time to pull the engine. Thanks for all the support from everyone though.
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Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by Limpy45 »

If you have a helper could they put something into the starter sprocket and hold it in place while you turn the engine over? That way the chain would not go wandering off by itself and possibly bind up the engine? The back cover will have to come off to check on the starter clutch and related parts. Good luck on this project!
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padutch47
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82 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Engine only rotates counter clockwise.

Post by padutch47 »

Thanks Limpy45. I've been planning to pull the engine for a more thorough inspection but with the onset of spring and impending summer it seems everyone on the planet wants something done to there bikes and golf carts which is what I do. Needless to say, mp personal projects have taken a back burner to cash paying work. In fact, there off the stove all together and about to be put up in the pantry! lol


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