CAN'T GET STARTER INSTALLED

[gemairpilot]

I got the new starter and have been trying to get it installed. Must have spent a couple ou hours on my belly. Tried all the tricks I could. Tried putting the old starter back on because I had reinstalled it a couple of times while I was troubleshooting my starting problem. I couldn't get it back on either. I looked into the case with mirror and it loos like the gear is not down far enough. PICTURE ATTACHED NOTE THAT THE GEAR IS SITTING ABOVE THE POST AT THE BACK THAT THE GEAR BUTTS AGAINST. I took it out and put back in numerous times but it still looks too high and of course the starter spine and gear spline won't line up. Is it possible something higher up has gotten out of position? I'm really stumped on this. Any Ideas? GERRY

[littlebeaver]

Is the bike on the centerstand or the side stand? That's not common I don't think regardless of which stand it's on..I have had no problem installing them with it on the centerstand...I would guess you wiggled the chain a little right? Man... I don't know...

[WingAdmin]

First off, is the bike on the side stand while you're doing this? It helps greatly to use gravity to try to help that sprocket stay in position.

Next, can you use your fingers to pull the sprocket down into its correct position? Or is there something else holding it in the (incorrect) place it's now in?

[littlebeaver]

It sounds like you have about as much experience as I do, I have only removed the starter about three three's and that's all...With never a issue, it goes on in about a minute..Wingadmin. is usually right about this kinda stuff..Instructions say to place it on it's side stand...As anyone know's I do things my own way most the time..

[gemairpilot]

Thanks for the replies. I have an idea from what questions were asked. IS IT ON THE CENTRE OR SIDE STAND. Well neither, this is a trike and I have it in my trailer so it is on an upward angle. (see picture) I am going to try and level the trailer or take it off onto level ground. It is possible that at the upward angle the sprocket is forced back. Levelling the bike will swing it forward (I hope) Tomorow will tell. I will let you all know what happens. Getting cold here now, 30F at night and only 40F days.
Cheers,Gerry

[littlebeaver]

Gerry, I'd jack up the right side if level ground doesn't work...You'll have it back on in no time...Gotta hold your tongue to the left alittle..And talk to yourself, but never ever get mad at it..

[RexAubrey]

Gerry,

Is that the new gear that came with the new starter? If so it does not look like the teeth line up correctly. another user had this problem and used the original gear but had to modify the splines a little by using a small triangle file to fit to the new starters shaft. You can check this out by taking the two gears and comparing them by holding them back to back. the teeth should line up perfectly. By looking at the picture you have posted the teeth should sit in the links and not be hitting the pins like they do in the picture.

Rex

[vign1]

you can easily remove sproket and check if it enters the starter
and replace the chain then no problem
I've done the two weeks there has no problem
s was the spin on the starter fesait default
I file them delicately and all became ok

[dingdong]

Something definitely wrong in that pic. The sprocket teeth don't line up with the chain links. RexAubrey is correct there.

[vign1]

the teeth of the sprocket are correct it is soaked

c is the starter that are damaging
have can easily remove the sprocket and replace

ensure that the teeth had all c is

[gemairpilot]

Snowed a little last night so will wait an hour or so til it warms a bit. I am going to check the old and new gears against each other as suggested. The old gear does fit the new shaft. Also will level the trike,and raise the right side as I see this will swing the gear and chain to the middle of the hole. Will report what happens. note to vign1: your message is all mixed up and doesn't make sense. Thanks for the reply. to everyone. Cheers from the frozen North, Gerry

[vign1]

you starter motor have a little spin

the little spin is damage

remove the sprocket in the motor case
and fit to the starter motor if is a not fit
because the shaft armature is damage
just take a file and repair the rotor spin

the sprocket in the motor case is easy remove

[gemairpilot]

Spent another couplte of hours this morning on the problem.Sprocket gear fits the motor shaft ok, checked the old gear against the new one, ok. The old gear is tight on the new motor shaft but the new gear has more play. I dressed the motor shaft with a file and then a fine carbon stone. Under a 10 power glass the new shaft looks rougher than the old one, so I spent some time dressing it until the gear slips on fine. Tried installing the starter again this morning, no dice. Tried using the old and the new gears and old and new motors just to see if the old one would go on--- same problem, won't go. I put STP (engine oil additive) on the gear where it butts aginst the motor inside. It is really thick and held the gear in the centre of the hole. Had the trike on level ground and right side jacked up as suggested to replicate being on the side stand. thought I had it several times but just won't go home. Going to have lunch and keep at it. Gerry

[WingAdmin]

Spent another couplte of hours this morning on the problem.Sprocket gear fits the motor shaft ok, checked the old gear against the new one, ok. The old gear is tight on the new motor shaft but the new gear has more play. I dressed the motor shaft with a file and then a fine carbon stone. Under a 10 power glass the new shaft looks rougher than the old one, so I spent some time dressing it until the gear slips on fine. Tried installing the starter again this morning, no dice. Tried using the old and the new gears and old and new motors just to see if the old one would go on--- same problem, won't go. I put STP (engine oil additive) on the gear where it butts aginst the motor inside. It is really thick and held the gear in the centre of the hole. Had the trike on level ground and right side jacked up as suggested to replicate being on the side stand. thought I had it several times but just won't go home. Going to have lunch and keep at it. Gerry

It's one of those things where some people get it first try just by chance and say "hey, it's easy!" while others spend days trying to get it right, and it then suddenly slips in - with no idea what they did differently.

[littlebeaver]

I'm sorry I call Uncle.... If this was me, i'd remove the o'ring and try it, just to see if the thing is lining up ....

[gemairpilot]

You are right about that. When I repaired the original starter it went back on just fine. Now it won't go on no matter what. I am leaving it alone for a day or two and then get a buddy of mine to try. Here are pictures of my various bike positions I tried.
Was a nice day once it warmed up. Cheers,
Gerry

[jab2of3]

bet yougot it on ebay for 89.99 bucks. Use the old sproket and take the rubber seal from the old starter and put it on the new one. I bet it will work. DID FOR ME

[gemairpilot]

Thanks jab2of3 , I did figure out the seal was too big and used the original one. Also tried with the old sprocket but just won't work for me. The old sprocket is very tight on the shaft. The new sprocket is quite loose and slides on easily but the starter just won't go on. I have spent hours trying but no luck. I have started to remove engine and will do timing belts and other maintenance when engine is out. It is a bummer but it seems the only thing left. Have to keep smiling!!! Cheers, Gerry

[littlebeaver]

Gemairpilot, this is a longshot but some time ago I read of a guy using a large magnet on the back of the case to move the sprocket around then aligning it that way....Long shot, and I have never tried it....Man I wish I were closer, we could take turns at it..I wish you the best...

[jab2of3]

i also had to use a piece of wood to help pry it in and it slid in like butter after a long time. The old sprocket did fit much tighter but seemed to click in with some pressure. U can get it done. I was pissed for a while and hurt my damn elbow trying to push it in. The wood was a stake used to hold bushes up straight.

I found others who got their starter from the same seller on ebay and all had the problem.

my buddy is a bike mechanic and he got the idea of the wood.

[gemairpilot]

Thanks to everyone for the comments and tips. Of course the sprocket and chain keep sliding to the side making it tough to keep it in the centre. I just don't know what the problem is. Incidentally the starter on Ebay CGATESDSA from DICSOUNT STARTERS MILLEDGEVILLE GA. Paid $91 plus shipping to Canada via DHL. DHL then charged me a bloody brokers fee !!! Anyway I will try the latest tips and see. Started the engine removal last night but will halt and try again. Thanks again to everybody that is helping. Maybe I buy someone an airline ticket to come and do this HA HA Cheers for now, Gerry

[littlebeaver]

It's not the starter because you said you couldn't get the original one on, I'd be trying that first just to prove to myself it will go on, it sounds like the chain is caught up top somehow, maybe you can get a wooden dowel to fit the gear hole and pull down hard maybe it's hung on a tooth above, I'm guessing now, I know your desperate by now...I'd try anything at this point, oh and I think these fella's found a strong magnet in a old computer...I don't know, they said it worked.... I'll try finding that post for you...It's from another site..

[Whiteford]

Well, I had almost the same problem. Paid $200.00 for a hew starter from " %$#^&'s and it would not go in. I finally got mad and rebuilt my old one and it almost fell in. Turns out, the "o-ring " was too big. Put it on the new starter, and it still would not go back in. Like I said, almost the same problem. Called the place I bought it from, and they said they would get back to me. i am not holding my breath............Good luck

[javard]

This is probably the most unconventional way but might work for you. Drill a very small hole in the back plate of the housing where the cog is, centre on to the cog. Then insert a smaller probe, for instance a jewelers screwdriver in the hole, then wriggle the cog around from the rear until the starter spline goes in to the cog. Breathe a sigh of relief. Then use a small bit of JB Weld to fill the hole, let it dry and sand it down. No oil leak and even if it did it would be tiny. You can also use the hole to pass a wire through the chain if you need to remove the cog to check the fit so it doesn't fall into the frigging sump! Go slowly and this bush mechanic method may help solve the problem without an engine out. What were they thinking when they put a consumable item like the starter in such a hard to reach place I wonder?

[javard]

O.K I can confirm my bush mechanic method works perfectly. It will also enable you to safely remove the original cog or replace it without dropping the chain into the engine, i.e game over. Drill very small hole in center rear of cog housing. Insert thin longish wire. Stick fingers in and remove the cog, it will then just slide out down your safety wire. Now you can test the cog and spline fit. So if it is damaged, you can grease both and tap the cog on gently, remove it, do it a few more times to clean and align the spline teeth. If it won't go on, gently file the very end so that the spine teeth of the starter motor a nice and clean and the cog can fit on. You could also do this with a new starter with an old cog where the new splines need a bit of working in. Or you could also do this with a new starter and new cog too. Either way by the time you are ready to re fit, the cog must slide on like butter. Then you can make sure you don't lose the refitted cog by simply putting the cog back on the end of the safety wire and pushing the cog back though its insert in the housing. making sure it has fully engaged the chain. Only then pull out the safety wire. Make sure bike is on the side stand at all times! Do not attempt this job with bike on center stand. Then simply fit the starter motor. Mine slid in with no drama first time. Then yell with joy so all the neighbours who have been learning your bad langage all week can hear you and go and have a couple of ice cold beers to congratulate yourself......don't forget to plug tiny hole with JB filter after making sure it is clean of oil so it sticks.......took me nearly two weeks to come up with this after lying on my side in my driveway swearing....