87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles


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Mav4G
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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:44 pm



Thanks Bruce. Im going to try the Seafoam thing later today or tomorrow (something my son suggested two weeks ago). The last ditch effort of a desperate man :-) Im sure either way I'll be into a carb job. And thanks PurpleGL1200 for directions to the exact place I can get help for doing that. Thanks to all of you for so much wonderful input. Sometimes, its this camaraderie that keeps a guy going when he thinks he's just swallowed a lemon. I can come to this blog and find my sun again on the next horizon. Hope you all have wonderful holidays!
Mav



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Ed Z
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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Ed Z » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:08 pm

On my 87 I had a problem when I hit the brakes hard it would drop to two cylinders but would then come back to normal all 4... After much searching it was found that the wiring connector to one of the coils was not on correctly... It had the plastic boot holding the female end up against the male... Once I found this and corrected it, it never failed again... Possibly not your problem, but worth checking...

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Ace1Hunter » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:02 pm

Hello I have tried all different types of cleaners and the only one that works is BG fuel injection cleaner. https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline ... -product-2 I am a Honda Master tech. Messing with the carbs are tricky if you have not worked on them you will make the problem worst. I am third gen to own 1986 GL 1200I that my dad gave me the bike. To fix the bogging problem first have Honda fuel filter then have the gas light on bike on in the BG fuel injecter cleaner then fire up bike. Rev engine to 3'000 rpm and wait to hear the coolent fan comes on then work the throttle on the bad rpms. If it stalled fire the bike up and work the rpms. You will not be able to ride the to the gas station. Get some high octane from gas can and put it in. You can then ride the bike and blow it out. Meaning be hard on the throttle to get full power back. This will fix your carb problem. Then go to Wawa and get elthal free gas.

flash1942
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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by flash1942 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:57 am

Seafoam will work but make a VERY strong mix, like 50/50 gas and Seafoam. Fire it up to get the mix in the carbs then let it set for a couple days. Fire it up and do what Ace1Hunter said. May have to repeat.
My aspy did the same thing but it's ok now.
I might add that today's gas ain't what it used to be 25 years ago. It seems to have a lot of dissolved trash in it which causes problems with our very fine precision engines. I would suggest that Seafoam or your favorite product be used in about every 2 or 3 fill ups as a prevention against trash gas,IMHO.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Ace1Hunter » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:42 am

Seafoam does not work as good as BG cleaner. Another tech used Seafoam in his Honda sport bike that he built . He tryed my way because he did not have full power with the use of Seafoam. He was over joyed that it fixed his bike.I have been using BG cleaners sense the 1990's I stand behind their cleaners .

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:24 pm

I hadn't heard of BG cleaner before. I looked up its material safety data sheet to compare its ingredients to Seafoam:

Seafoam
Pale Oil: 40-60%
Naptha: 25-35%
Isopropyl Alcohol: 10-20%

BG Injector Cleaner
Naptha: 25-70%
Xylene: 15-40%
Isopropyl Alcohol: 10-30%
2-(propyloxy)ethanol 5-10%
Stodard solvent: 5-10%
oleic acid 5-10%
dodecylbenzenesulphonic acid, compound with isopropylamine (1:1) 1-5%
ethylbenzene 1-5%
1,2,4-trimethylbenzene 0.5-1.5%

Similar, but it appears the BG product has more solvents in it. However, several of the ingredients in the BG product are highly carcinogenic, so I would definitely wear gloves when using it, and don't breathe the vapors.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:28 pm

Thanks guys for all your advice. To Ace1Hunter, is there a retail outlet that sells the BG44K? None of my local parts places seem to stock it. We have a distributor about 55 miles from me, but they don't list any retail places to buy it. Also, would you follow the directions on the can, for the first use of gummy carbs, or what would you put in p/gal for a good mix? Another thing, if you read your first comment a couple times ago you'll see where you mention something about the fuel filter, but it doesn't make sense to me. If you could clarify it would help. I found a lot of support for the results BG products get, but not a word on where to buy it. Thank you.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by flash1942 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:37 pm

That BG website has shops in your area that use their products. Take a look again.

As far as it's effectiveness I don't know but some notable shops in my area use it and that speaks well of their products. It appears to have solvents and special cleaners in it and it may be very effective. I may give it a try sometimes. And as wingadmin says please be careful using it.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idless

Post by Ace1Hunter » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:23 pm

The fuel filter is for to keep the fuel clean and because the lining could come apart and mess up your freshly clean carb. I use oem Honda fuel filter that is in stock at the Honda motorcycle dealer and is not pricey. BG fuel injector cleaner is sold at some Chevy dealership 's. When I used the fuel cleaner . It is mixed 1 gal and only run when roughness is gone. Then the cleaner is deluded by filling up the tank with 93 octane. I have done this 2 times . First to fix the problem and the second when I had motor out for some time to fix the stator that was bad. I ran the bike out of fuel in the carbs but the long time cause little lose of power only when cold. The bike has so much power it will the front wheel off the ground. I am very pleased not to pull the carbs.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Phavas » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:24 pm

I have poured acetone into the system mixed with gasoline and it seems to clear all the crap out. I wouldn't soak the seals in it but, in passing, it seems to do the job plus has the advantage of evaporating without leaving any trace of itself. If you've got half a gallon of fuel, pour in half a quart of acetone and run the bike for a while. I've found it clears up all kinds of lacquer.
Whatever,
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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by HawkeyeGL1200 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:36 pm

I've done the same thing. However, I am always a little worried about recommending acetone to others because it is such a good solvent, and because it can ruin anything plastic that it may come into contact with... Mixed in the concentration you suggest, I'd probably ride directly to a gas station and fill the tank up with fresh fuel... if the gallon of fuel with the acetone were all that was in the fuel tank when I left the house, and provided I didn't have to ride more than 15 minutes or so to top off the tank with 4 or 5 gallons of fresh fuel... I ruined a carb on a generator running too much acetone through it LOL... thank goodness it was mine... I'd never use it on something I didn't want to pay to fix.... so that means I wouldn't use it on your motorcycle... I would tell you what my experience with it has been and let you decide for yourself if you want to try it or not...

That being said, I completely agree with your experience with acetone... and it is cheap, easy to find and stores quite well, as long as you keep the lid screwed on tight...
Phavas wrote:I have poured acetone into the system mixed with gasoline and it seems to clear all the crap out. I wouldn't soak the seals in it but, in passing, it seems to do the job plus has the advantage of evaporating without leaving any trace of itself. If you've got half a gallon of fuel, pour in half a quart of acetone and run the bike for a while. I've found it clears up all kinds of lacquer.
Whatever,
Zaphod
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Phavas » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:43 pm

Yeah, the point being don't fill the tank with acetone and gas, just put in an half gallon and an half quart and run it through;
or less if it works. At 45 miles to the gallon I'd have to drive to town from my island (22 miles) to get the crap out - hence the quantities. Carry another gallon of fresh gas and pour it in when it runs dry. THe point is you can't de-crap a Goldwing in the driveway, and no one wants to sit there while it overheats waiting for the crud to dissolve.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:47 pm

I did find a dealer about a half hour from me who sells the BG44K for $21.95. Im going there tomorrow to purchase a can. I'll dump it in my tank and top off with premium then go for a nice long ride on the SR highway where speeds are from zero to 60. That way all my jets get equal time. Then let it sit for a day or two and hit it again. If I still have a problem I'll try the acetone solution next. Right now I have sea foam in my crankcase to help the lazy starter issue. And as soon as the carbs quit sputtering I'll change the oil and the fuel filter. Whatever happens I'll come back on and share. Its wonderful having great support when you need it most. Thank you all for your help.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Ace1Hunter » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:04 am

Do not buy BG 44k it is not the cleaner I am talking about. It is not strong enough. I have used it. BG 44K is used after the BG fuel injector cleaner.

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Mav4G
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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:33 am

Ace1Hunter: Ok. You did say to use the injector cleaner but I thought that you may have thought for some reason I had injectors and I assumed (poorly) I should get the BG44K since I have carbs. And thanks for following up!

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:12 am

Well… I still have the sputter. I've done all the "in a can" solutions (except for the acetone as I read it was hard on fuel pump innards) and the performance has improved but when Im taking off I still have the sputter. Then yesterday I remembered the PO told me he would run premium fuel in the bike and ad StaBil to the mix and it would always run good. He only said it once and I had nearly forgotten it. But after running all these hard ass cleaners through the system and not getting rid of the sputter I began to look somewhere else. I know its not the carbs because it has moments when it runs ideally under all conditions w/o any effort. If, for example, I had clogged jet it wouldn't have good times and bad over and over, I think it would simply fail. One thing I've noticed is - when I'm running low on fuel (finally) the fuel pump will start clicking (making a snapping noise) at a rate conducive to the revs. I thought perhaps this was a warning along with the fuel light coming on afterwards. When I added more fuel it would stop clicking. Then the other day I ran some octane booster to offset the ethanol issue and it started clicking sometime later. I had a full tank of fresh fuel and it wouldn't stop clicking. So I drained the tank, put the fuel mix in my car, and then came back last night with one gallon of fresh premium fuel (93 oct) with a quarter ounce of Stabil in it. I've let it sit over night after running it through the carbs and my fuel pump is still clicking and I still have a slight sputter at idle or when just taking off. As soon as I get moving the sputter is gone. If I don't have any hair left its because I've pulled it all out. Does anyone know why the fuel pump is clicking, or what prompts that action? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Hope everyone is well and coming up on a wonderful holiday. Thanks.

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Phavas » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:05 am

Fuel pump clicking is probably the little push-me pull-you diaphragms inside / or a worn actuator foot / or it's loose.
Constant clicking: I'd go for worn foot.

Stutter: cheap and cheerful trick is to raise the needles with small neoprene or stainless washers.
Number 4 I think they are but you can take your needle down to Lowes and see which ones it fits through.
Have you cleaned out the air mixture valve and blown the seat clean? It's got to come off and apart to do it.
Oh yeah, one other thing, don't set the idle too low: I know they say 750-900 RPM but I usually set mine at 1000 -1100 warm;
I find it rolls on throttle easier.
Cheers, Happy Hols,

Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:27 am

Does anyone know why the fuel pump is clicking???

Yes...My 84 fuel pump tick was loud enough to hear at 60mph...A fast ticking(2-4 per second) is the pump with no fuel...As the fuel pressure builds,the pulsing/ticking slows...At a idle,it will pulse/tick about once every 6-10 seconds....The pump cycles faster as the demand for fuel increases.
Mine ticking was a deteriorated damper ring...It should stop the plunger from hitting the casting....
A loud ticking pump is annoying but still operating...It is not the cause of your sputtering problems...

A intermittent sputter.....A few possibilities.....A slide sticking(mirror inspect down the plenum box),Accelerator pump problem,poor ignition wires(arcing out or burnt caps)Poorly synced carbs and improper idle down adjustments on the idle jets...
You can read more about my noisy pump here...


viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8642

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:37 pm

Hey guys, thanks for a quick response. If I could, I'd like to guide you to an article I just read that makes a lot of sense to me. I do get the puff of bluish-white smoke whenever I first start up as mentioned here. Could you take a moment to read the article then post back to me what your take is on it? Again, many thanks for your help.
http://www.saber-cycle.com/blog/2010/01 ... erformance
or copy and paste: http://www.saber-cycle.com/blog/2010/01 ... erformance

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Phavas » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:15 pm

Yeah, what I called the air mixture valve.
Located on top of the plenum in front.
It can be taken off from the top after you've removed the air cleaner. Try to not undo the top cap screws before you undo the 3 screws to remove the base. Usually the base bleed hole is clogged and the diaphragm dried out. DON'T LOSE THE LITTLE "O" RING!
If you don't have a new one, glue the old one back in with silicone (enough to smell, but not to see).
Finicky little ****.

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Writing roughshod over the English language

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:27 pm

Mav4G wrote:Hey guys, thanks for a quick response. If I could, I'd like to guide you to an article I just read that makes a lot of sense to me. I do get the puff of bluish-white smoke whenever I first start up as mentioned here. Could you take a moment to read the article then post back to me what your take is on it? Again, many thanks for your help.
http://www.saber-cycle.com/blog/2010/01 ... erformance
or copy and paste: http://www.saber-cycle.com/blog/2010/01 ... erformance
I would question any information coming from Saber Cycle, just as I would question any product coming from them. Not the best vendor in the world. Probably close to the worst. Read: Saber Cycle Vendor Record

I started reading through that article, and the first two paragraphs were congratulating themselves for knowing so much, and then a paragraph insulting mechanics for being so stupid. I gave up. That article was obviously written by the same deranged, self-important person who answers their email.

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Mav4G
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Over a dozen dirt bikes.

Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:59 pm

I appreciate your position on the issue wingadmin, but the real information came right after you were insulted. The part where science took over opinion. But thanks for your take on it.

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Mav4G
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1972 Honda CB305
8 or 9 other street bikes
Over a dozen dirt bikes.

Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:01 pm

Also,thank you phavas/zaphod for your response, I will be acting on that first chance tomorrow before cranking it over again. Be well and have a great day!

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Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Ace1Hunter » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:42 am

LoL your engine has Major problems.

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Mav4G
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1986 GL1200A Aspencade
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1972 Honda CB305
8 or 9 other street bikes
Over a dozen dirt bikes.

Re: 87 Aspy missing - won't fire properly - but idles

Post by Mav4G » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:39 pm

Well darn, my sputter problem now occurs at all speeds. I tried the 'can' solution on a long ride on the freeway; got about 20 miles from home and decided to turn around… and Im glad I did. The sputter took over and I hobbled home the last couple miles. Thought I might have to ditch it. So, I have two questions you fellas might could help me with. First are there any links that show how to remove just the bottom half of the fairing (noting hidden bolts or screws) on a 87 Aspy? When I went into the plenum to clean the air/mix valve I found something totally different on my bike than in any of the manuals or pictures online, so I need year specific data when possible. It will be easier to address that valve when I rebuild the carbs. So also, where would you go to purchase a 4-carb kit for this bike and know you bought quality w/o betting your deed to the farm? I've rebuilt single and dual carbs before but nothing like on this wing. Your help would be appreciated and hope ya'll are having a good holiday. Thanks up front for your advice!



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