1985 LTD Stator Replacement

[Rednaxs60]

Starting a new thread as I am replacing the stator. Brought over the posts from my other thread.

I had initially wanted to do the alt mod, but after searching for the parts in this city, I realize that it will take longer than I'm willing to allow the bike to sit. So after a lot of soul searching, I will be replacing the stator, ordered it yesterday. While the engine is out, hope to do some engine cleaning, and look at the starter clutch. Intend to renew the springs, pins and rollers in the starter clutch.

Had done some initial work to do the alt mod, but have now gone into remove engine mode. Had to remove rear wheel to get the exhaust off and out. Foot pegs, side stand, rear brake lever, engine guards, timing belt covers, drain oil, drain rad, and a few other items. Have started to take pictures staring with the bike disassembled with the rear wheel and exhaust out. Didn't do a commentary on getting this far because it has been said before so to speak. Will be taking pictures from here because it is unknown territory for me.

I've taken the FD and swing arm off. It lets me have more room and I won't have to worry about working around it when I R and R the engine. Spent another 1 1/2 hours this morning.

I have also drained the gas tank because the shut off VV leaks when turned off. Will be looking at it very soon. A fellow in Nova Scotia had the same issue and came up with a fix. Will be reviewing his notes and doing mine.

Taking pictures of everything I disconnect (before and after). Need a good reference. Also using zip lock bags for parts and small plastic bins to keep everything organized.

Got the clutch slave off, cleaned, and new seals. Lots of crud inside. Had already changed the clutch fluid a few months back so I expected the fluid to be clear when I removed the top off the clutch master. Unfortunately, I found that the fluid colour was blackish. I'm thinking the line(s) are starting to break down and need to be replaced. Another project.

Took the fuel shut off valve apart. Looks like I need an o-ring for the selector. Noticed that I should just have to either use self-tapping screws, or drill right through the body and use nut and bolt to secure the workings. Should work.

Fuel pump has been disconnected from the fuel lines and tied back out of the way.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but it is adding up. The more I do to this bike, the more I realize how much more there is to consider. I'm also thinking that next time, and there will probably be a next time, I must factor in a lot more than I had for this bike when I started.

Ordered the clutch casing gasket, clutch slave spring, and clutch plates this morning. It was recommended to do the clutch on another forum in case the plates are glazed. I discussed this with a friend who used to work on HDs, and he recalled I mentioned this bike used to tow a trailer. He immediately recommended yes on the clutch rebuild, and the bike also has 120,000 Kms on it. The engine will also be out and I do not want to be taking it out again for a while.

It was also mentioned to bin the camper plate in the clutch pack. Can someone shed some light on this - be greatly appreciated.

More to follow. Cheers

[twocams]

I know you are doing more than I did to my 84 Interstate back in 1989....but. I just unbolted the engine took it out replaced the belts and stator. Think it took me about 2 days or less. but I was 40 back then and 67 now so may take even longer. But it sounds like your having way too much fun. This is one of those times when you get your friends over and have a little BYOB ( bring your own beer ) party to help.

twocams

[Rednaxs60]

Going to start putting the story together with pictures. Suffice it to say I have taken my time. Have about 3 hours into the project now; however, have found the issue with the fuel shut off valve, rebuilt the clutch slave, have the engine out, stator is out, and just getting ready for the next flurry of activity.

Fro what I can see the inside wiring was bare and you know the story. Going to take it in to have it checked. This stator is well epoxied, and if good, will source someone to do the wiring so I can have a spare.

Only broke 2 small bolts. One is vice grip accessible, the other is a drill and easy out so to speak. Not bad for a 32 year old.

There is a lot of information not in any of the manuals such as about draining the oil. Did this; however, there is still quite a bit I the rear case when you open it. It was a bit of a suprise to say the least. The next couple of days will be to clean the bike up, and make sure I have the other little things done before the major parts get here. I want to have it back on the road next week hopefully.

More to follow.

Cheers

[Breiber]

Sorry to hear your into such a big project Ernest. Now is the time to be riding. What happened to your charging system? A few weeks ago your bike was putting out impressive voltage. Did it decline gradually or fail catastrophically. Hopefully it all goes smoothly for you. Too bad you bailed on the idea of doing the alternator conversion. The more I look at the options I really think that ditching the stator is the way to go. I can't believe how many people experience multiple failures with them. I'm going to soldier on with my project and hope that I can ride it for the summer but I have a gut wrenching suspicion that my stator is on it's way out too.

Brian

[Rednaxs60]

Sorry to hear your into such a big project Ernest. Now is the time to be riding. What happened to your charging system? A few weeks ago your bike was putting out impressive voltage. Did it decline gradually or fail catastrophically. Hopefully it all goes smoothly for you. Too bad you bailed on the idea of doing the alternator conversion. The more I look at the options I really think that ditching the stator is the way to go. I can't believe how many people experience multiple failures with them. I'm going to soldier on with my project and hope that I can ride it for the summer but I have a gut wrenching suspicion that my stator is on it's way out too.

Brian

Brian - changed the RR and the system went south on me. Time, coincidence, don't know but Taking care of it. Makes for a good case to have two bikes. Have not given up on the alt mod, know that you should not start that type of project without having all the parts, specifically the crank pulley. I will be pursuing this.

This has allowed me to address some smaller issues. Will have these all done by the time the new stator and clutch plates come in.

Was a bit intimidated with taking the engine out but took my time, lots of pictures, and kept the workspace clean. Putting it back should be faster.

Cheers

[Breiber]

Well best of luck to you. You seem like a pretty methodical and meticulous guy so I am sure you will be back up and running better than ever in no time.

I am in the process of cleaning up electrical issues at the moment and had a question for you about the stator and rectifier plugs to the left of the battery. I am going to cut, solder and heat shrink the stator plug. The rectifier plug doesn't have a ton of slack to play with and I am tempted to clean it really well and leave it alone. I am also waiting for a new starter solenoid to eliminate the dog bone fuse. The whole starter solenoid and harness plug have seen some obvious corrosion and heat.

[Rednaxs60]

Well best of luck to you. You seem like a pretty methodical and meticulous guys so I am sure you will be back up and running better than ever in now time.

I am in the process of cleaning up electrical issues at the moment and had a question for you about the stator and rectifier plugs to the left of the battery. I am going to cut, solder and heat shrink the stator plug. The rectifier plug doesn't have a ton of slack to play with and I am tempted to clean it really well and leave it alone. I am also waiting for a new starter solenoid to eliminate the dog bone fuse. The whole starter solenoid and harness plug have seen some obvious corrosion and heat.

PM sent

[Rednaxs60]

Starting on the install of the engine and various other parts that I have been working on. Feels good to be on the other end instead of continuing to do work.

Installing the alt mod instead of the new stator. Had a week off to visit family and friends a couple of weeks ago, and on return had a refreshed look at what I had to do. Had the new stator in and, but I was having to find an o-ring that would seal the rear case plug. After several attempts, I succumbed because I should not have had to look for an o-ring and sent it back, and decided to install the alt mod.

Found a 55 amp alternator, a three wire hook up for $125.00 out the door. The alternator dimensions are 7 inches high by 5 1/2 inches long by 4 1/2 inches wide, and is a two point install. The dimensions are similar to the Chevy Mini Denso dimensions.

Sourced the crank pulley off a '99 Prelude. It is a 4 inch pulley with a 12mm bore. For the spacer I have used 3-1/8 inch thick - 12mm bore washers and 2 bearings with 12mm bore. Here are pictures of the spacer and pulley:

I used a hole saw to modify the timing belt covers:

I dry fitted the crank pulley and timing belt covers with the engine still out. The 4 inch crank pulley covers the inboard bolt of the right timing belt cover - above picture identifies which bolt. Because of this, I have to install the timing belt covers and crank pulley in a specific sequence starting with the right timing belt cover, the crank pulley, then the right timing belt cover.

I will also have to be aware of the small engine coolant hose that may have to be routed around the crank pulley and belt. When I test fitted the crank pulley and covers, I noticed that there may be very little clearance between this hose and the alternator belt.

I was also able to prep the left side under the upper fairing for the alternator bracket:

More on the install later.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Have been busy sourcing parts and doing the brackets for the alt install. Have the alt installed and will be sourcing the belt tomorrow. Need a belt that is 85 1/2 cms (33 1/4 inch).

On the '85 LTD there is a coolant hose that goes between the water pump and thermostat housings. I think I have enough clearance that I will not have to relocate it.

Putting the brackets together was a challenge, as was finding a reasonable welder to finish the job.

Once I have the belt sourced and installed will be taking the alt off and painting the brackets.

Here's a picture of the alt and crank pulley.

[Rednaxs60]

Did some more work this morning. Sourced a belt, NAPA Micro-V 25 P/N 040332 (9/16" by 33-3/4"), tight fit but it will work well. Had to move the lower bracket bolt hole to get as much room as possible for the install.

This will be the end result:

There is plenty of clearance between the belt and coolant line - in excess of 1/4":

Had to modify the TPS cover. It has the securing nuts for the lower left fairing:

The lower left fairing will have to be modified. Have to remove the cooling duct. This pic shows the cooling duct to be removed:

This pic shows the duct removed:

Do believe that some plastic will have to be removed to accommodate the alternator next to the fairing. Have to map it out to make it look like it has always been there.

Tomorrow I hope to get started installing the radiator and cooling fan. Have an idea as to how I will make it work.

Everything is coming together. Lots more to do though.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Here is the area of the lower left fairing that may/will have to be modified:

This is the spot where the alt hits the fairing:

Proposed fairing area to be modified:

Thinking a dremmel will be used - just have to take my time.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Have tucked the alt up under the lower fairing and it is a tight fit. Clearance between the FI wiring and TPS is quite close.

Took some pictures of the alt install, specifically the clearance at the TPS and FI wiring for the forward cylinder. It is a tight fit but allows me to not have to cut the lower fairing.

This shows the FI wiring and TPS clearance:

This shows the TPS clearance:

Have the alt brackets off and painted.

Looked at installing the rad and fan. Going to have to be creative here as well. More to follow on this.

Cheers

[twocams]

Who ever did mine used a heat gun to "deform" and push out the bottom some so the alt. would clear.
just a thought if you need one.

twocams

[Rednaxs60]

Twocams - did just that, gave me a little more room. Won't be so easy with the rad and fan.

[Rednaxs60]

More progress. Played with the rad and fan until I got the idea straight, then started cutting. I cut the fan shroud at the bottom between the two lower fan mounts. I trimmed the fan blades to miss the crank pulley, and moved the fan closer to the rad using a washer and an oversized nut as the spacer. I removed one of the fan supports to allow for the alternator belt. I have had the rad installed and operated the fan. The rad is moved out approximately 3/4". Everything clears so now to install alternator and the rad/fan.

Here is a picture of the fan mods showing the blade trimming, shroud removal and one fan support removed.

This picture shows the spacer used to lower the fan closer to the rad.

One step closer to getting done.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Been a few days since my last post, but have the alt installed and the bike back together, pics to follow. Lowered the fan closer to the rad to get as much clearance as possible, had to remove one of the fan support brackets to clear the alt belt, and trimmed the fan blade edges to miss the crank pulley. Tried the fan on the outside of the rad, but too close to the front fender and would hit.

Good results so far, charging well, quiet operation. Have a three wire set up. Only issue is the bike runs hotter now. Checked to make sure the thermostat was oriented properly - has a hole in it that's supposed to be oriented to the top. Have had discussions with another fellow who did the alt mod on an '86 SEI and he has the same issue. I have put in a switch to operate the fan manually that does help - can have fan operating continuously if needs be. Will be having the rad cleaned as well, and possibly renewing the thermostat.

Comments/suggestions?

Cheers

[Breiber]

Changing the thermostat and cleaning the rad should do the trick. You haven't really changed anything that would create more heat. I don't think running the fan continuously would be a good idea. I put a Stant thermostat in mine and it works fine but the stock Honda thermostat looks much more sturdy and reliable. If that doesn't do the trick u could try adding water wetter to your coolant or you could strip the guts out of your thermostat so it flows all the time. The bike will take longer to warm up but it won't over heat. This last trick really shouldn't be necessary.

[Rednaxs60]

Took the rad in yesterday and the older gent did a flow test on it and said it was approximately 25% plugged. He also mentioned that once a passage is plugged the possibility of getting it to flow properly again just by cleaning is highly unlikely with this style of rad. - high performance he called it - narrower passages and more fin/cooling area.

It has been out for our two months and was dry, so any crud inside the rad would have had time to harden. The cooling passages inside the rad are not that big so it would not take a lot to plug a tube.

He also mentioned that there are only two fellows in Victoria that work on rads and when they retire (he figures in a year or two), there will be no rad fixers in Victoria. Another skill set lost to technology.

Hopefully get the rad back on Friday. Going to fit the lower fairing around the alt today. Have a side stand mod I want to do so I don't leave it down.

Put the new exhaust pipes on. A little louder because the extension as taken off for another bike. Going to try and fit the extensions from the old set of pipes.

One of the things I've learned over the years is that when we do work, and get the item back in service and things don't work the way it should we have tendency to start don the "rabbit hole" chasing the perverbial "red herring. I don't believe the alt put that much of a load on the engine to make it overheat, but a combination of things affected the cooling system. The cooling system was probably just on the edge of needing some TLC and leaving the rad out and letting it dry was the kicker.

I did peruse the Internet to see if I could find additional information.

Looking forward to finishing it an riding. Will have to come up to Ladysmith for a ride and coffee.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Starting to wind up this project. Have been riding the bike for some 2,000 Kms now and all is well.

Installed new to me Aspy muffler that unfortunately had the extension resonator removed. This resonator is a miniature glass pack muffler that cuts the sound of the GW. I took the ones from the old exhaust system and have them installed in a temperary fashion and will come up with a more permanent solution as I get her completed.

Here are some pics of the new to me exhaust system. The chrome is in excellent shape.

I have the rad extended about 1" at the bottom and 1/2" at the top. To move the top out I took a new hose and made the connection to the rad a 1/2" longer. Works well and looks great. I was able to use a hose from NAPA for the bottom connections.

With the rad extended out I believe I have room to put in a different rad fan. This should also assist in providing a good cooling system. I have been corresponding with SilverDave by PM and it appears that the Honda engineers have designed the 1200 system to operate at a temp gauge range of 5 bars when cruising. When the system heats up in traffic and such, the fan when should be sufficient to bring the temp of the cooling system back to 5 bars. I read in the owners manual that the operating range of the 1200 LTD is between 2 and 8 bars. If the temp gauge goes to 9 bars, immediately shut the bike down and investigate.

I have also had the a new rad core installed. Some old pictures. These pictures do not look that bad, but when I held the core up to the light, the restriction in the tubes was very apparent.

This has helped as has the install of a new thermostat from Honda. I probably could have just had the core cleaned, but the price wasn't that much cheaper (remember I'm in Canada) and with the amount of other work I've done, I should now have trouble free motoring from the cooling system. I also installed a rad fan manual switch that I do use to get a jump on cooling in heavy traffic scenarios. The system does cool down from 6 bars to 4 bars after getting back on the highway. There is also an LED fan on indicator light installed (thanks to SilverDave's schematic). Just another way to monitor the operation of the system.

[Rednaxs60]

I have removed the aftermarket rad cover. I measured the air restriction from the aftermarket grill and found it to reduce the cooling area by about 18%, a significant amount for a cooling system that is just large enough for the 1200. I have been operating the bike with no rad cover (the OEM is just a mesh that might stop extra big bugs). I think this is helping a lot as well. Here are some pics of the OEM and aftermarket rad grills. The after market rad grill has 17 slats that 1/8" by 10". The rad size is 10" by 11". OEM rad cover first

Aftermarket rad cover looks good, but as has been said, need all the cooling possible.

I was able to use the original lower fairing rad mounting brackets. To keep the lower fairings from spreading and consequently losing the fairing piece between the two lower outer fairings, I installed a 1" aluminum flat bar between the sides as a safety measure.

I modified the lower left fairing with a heat gun. This enabled me to push the fairing out to clear the alternator. I had to shave a bit off the forward louvers to miss the alternator pulley. Other than these small adjustments, this fairing fits well.

The alternator starts charging around 2000 to 2400 RPM. When at idle, around 1000 RPM, pretty much on battery. Bring it up to approximately 1200 RPM and get a full charge going. I have a 4" crank pulley and 2" alt pulley.

There is no alternator whine that I have noticed.

I have earmarked Thursday this week to take off the lower fairings, inspect and make sure all is well.

Overall very pleased with the results.

Cheers

[twocams]

Ernest, I think its about time you stopped playing around and get this baby on the road for good Before summer runs out.
I think taking that chrome radiator jobby off was a good Idea too.

twocams

[Rednaxs60]

It's now my main source of transportation. It will get a few miles on it as I have at least three short trips planned into September.

Tony Beiler, a fellow on this forum and from Ontario who has an LTD and ASPY, has corresponded with me over the past months is in Victoria visiting his daughter and son-in-law. We got together for coffee, always nice to put a face to a name and a good way to network with these old girls. We went for a ride as well (made his vacation even that much better) I on my 1800, he on the LTD. He was very complementary about the at my LTD rode and handled, makes all the work worth while.

I will be doing the steering stem bearings, but that is a November project.

Fortunately I have the 1800, but it is not as much fun to ride as the 1200 is.

You are on my list for coffee, hopefully this fall.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Just a short update on the work and alt mod that I have done. The bike is operating well, the alt mod is quite nice and working as I expected. I do inspect the alt mod install and have found no issues to date. Have 5000 km on it since putting the bike back on the road. The bike doesn't use/burn oil, gets 49 MPG on the highway solo and 47 MPG two up. Around the city approximately 42 MPG. Doesn't get any better.

Still have a couple of items to address, but that is expected.

Took the bike to Rich's Custom Seats in Kingston WA and had the seat modified for the better half and myself along with the tour pack backrest. Had the arm rests and rear pockets covered to match as well, and a back rest for myself installed. I now have a Corbin seat and tour pack backrest for a 1200 to get rid of. This work has really set off the bike. Also know that if the butt is not comfortable, especially the better half's, won't be doing long rides on it.

Cheers

[twocams]

Got any pictures of your new seating arrangement? Just dont get the engine running to cool. Gas engines are more efficient while running warmer without overheating.
My son and I are planning a ride to Washington in Sept. Some National park I think. He on his Beemer, me on my 85 Wing ( my Beemer is done right now) Right now the Wing is more comfortable anyway. Let me know if you get in this neck of the woods.

twocams

[Rednaxs60]

Here are a couple of pics of the seat. Rich does a great job. Heading back on Tuesday to get it tweaked. He did the 95% solution right off, and now that I have 1000 or so Kms on it, I have some adjustments I want done.

Have a great ride. Let me know where you are heading. A ride across and "get off the rock" (leave Vancouver Island) is always a good thing. The better half is up for a few short jaunts before we get into any long ones. She's not into the camping thing, but enjoys riding.

Cheers