#1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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roadwanderer2
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#1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »



i just got my bike back yesterday and its running like crap. its backfiring, misfiring, blowing out black smoke from the mufflers and it won't stay running unless i keep twisting the throttle. im thinking that one or more of the plug wires aren't right or the timing is off by a tooth or 2.

can someone please tell me what the firing order is on an '86 GL1200 SEi and which is number 1 cylinder. i can't be sure by using my manuals. i have 2 manuals, one manual shows # 1 cylinder is on the left side of the motor and the other manual shows # 1 is on the right side of the motor. can i assume this firing order correct.........1-3-2-4

thanks,

stuart.



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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by dingdong »

You probably saw this on the other forum but.....


1/3 right side 2/4 left side front to back. Coils fire 1/2 and 3/4.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

yes i did, but thank you for reposting it :).

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

went to start the bike up a little while ago and it was really hard to start. i had to keep twisting the throttle to get it fired up and to idle at 980 rpm. once it warmed up to where the cold line was up a little on the temp gauge, and after i got the fork springs in, i took it out for a "test" ride. for some reason when this bike is warmed up it will run like a bat outta hell, no spitting, no backfiring, no hesitation, but, my "fuel system" light on my dash is on. not sure what's causing it.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by WingAdmin »

roadwanderer2 wrote:went to start the bike up a little while ago and it was really hard to start. i had to keep twisting the throttle to get it fired up and to idle at 980 rpm. once it warmed up to where the cold line was up a little on the temp gauge, and after i got the fork springs in, i took it out for a "test" ride. for some reason when this bike is warmed up it will run like a bat outta hell, no spitting, no backfiring, no hesitation, but, my "fuel system" light on my dash is on. not sure what's causing it.

stuart.
Have you read the code out of the computer to see what the problem is?

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

wingadmin, i don't have the equipment to pull the codes up nor the expertise to read them. i DO know from what my mechanic told me the only code he could bring up is something to do with the temperature sensor. he did also me that the computer was not bring up codes for the fuel system. all the lights on the computer are showing green on the fuel system computer, but the red "fuel system" light on the dash is lit.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by dingdong »

Stewart you need to read this thread from GWfacts.http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-g ... ght-2.html

You stated over there that the stator and wiring had been worked on. You might want to check your charging system to be sure all is well. When any work is done and a new problem arises "re-visit work done".

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

dingdong wrote:Stewart you need to read this thread from GWfacts.http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-g ... ght-2.html

You stated over there that the stator and wiring had been worked on. You might want to check your charging system to be sure all is well. When any work is done and a new problem arises "re-visit work done".
ok, i'll go thru it and see if anything is suspect. i'll check the voltage on the stator and the wires for it.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

ok, heres what i found......on the computer, the one thats mounted under the trunk, when i turn the key to "on" they all light up red, when i start the bike up, of the numbers 3,2,1,0, and "W", numbers 2 and 1 are flashing red, and the "W" is constant on-RED. voltage is charging at 13.7 volts @ 2000 rpm. at 4,000 rpm the voltage goes up to 14.7 volts.

i have no idea what this means, but now that i have the fiber exhaust gaskets in the rear of the front pipes, the bike is a lot quieter now.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

ok, after leaving the bike sit for about an hour, i just went to check the PB and the TW sensors and all the rest of the connector harnesses under the tank cover and on the motor to make sure they were connected as per the manual, this time when i went to try to start the bike up, i got nothing. no computer, no fuel pump, nothing except for all the lights on the dash, headlight, tail and all the other lights, but no start. when i press the starter button, only thing that happens is the lights go dim. the start switch on the clutch perch has a jumper wire on it so i don't have to keep holding the clutch lever in when i go to start it up. it will crank if i jump it from the starter solenoid, but wont start up.

now i have NO idea whats going on with it. im almost at my wits end with this bike.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

so i went back to my garage thinking what would cause the power not to kick in. i was playing around with the fuse block checking all the plug connectors and when i turned on the key i heard a "clicking" sound coming from one of the relays in the block. i unpluged it, and all of a sudden, i got all my power back on, computer, lights, fuel pump and the bike fired right up. as i was looking at the fuse block, i pressed on the bottom side and the bike shut off. i removed the cover and took a look at all the jumble of wires inside it, and one of the wires going to 2 of the relays are burned and touching together. so, now i have to replace the entire fuse block.

at least i was able to solve this problem.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Stuart - been watching your thread develop and lots of good advice/information being sent your way. I noticed in one of your last posts you mention having a jumper wire at the start switch so you can start the bike in neutral without pulling in on the clutch lever. "the start switch on the clutch perch has a jumper wire on it so i don't have to keep holding the clutch lever in when i go to start it up." The only reason I can think of for this jumper wire is there is that the clutch diode must not be working. The clutch diode allows you to start the bike when in neutral without having to pull in on the clutch lever.

Your SEi should be fairly close to the wiring layout in my LTD. The clutch diode is found in the wiring bundle where the saddlebags plug into the wiring harness. Here is a picture of where it is on my LTD - black arrow shows location:

Clutch Diode Position
Clutch Diode Position

The arrow shows where it is located in.

The schematic shows how the voltage flows in the start circuit. The flow is from the start switch to the start solenoid then through either the clutch diode or the clutch switch at the clutch lever. See diagram:

Starter System Schematic
Starter System Schematic

In this schematic you can see where the clutch diode and clutch switch interact. The clutch diode passes power to ground through the shift sensor when it is neutral.

The clutch diode for our bikes is as shown in this picture. The PO of my second LTD sent me the failed clutch diode as seen in this picture:

Clutch diode
Clutch diode

There are other diodes with the same P/N as this one but get the smaller black one as shown in the picture - it fits into a plug and is secured with a tab that locks the diode in place.

Clutch diode P/N for your bike is: 31700-371-008
Clutch diode for my LTD is: 31710-371-008

I would surmise that either one will work. Parts fiche indicates it costs about $20.00, old cost but can't be much more. Got my new one from the Honda dealer in town.

The reason I have looked into this is the second LTD I bought has to have the clutch diode replaced. I trialed the system on my LTD and found that when the clutch diode is inoperative (I installed the failed diode), or not installed, you have to pull in on the clutch lever for the bike to start.

More information I know, not really about your issue, but possibly for another wiring fix.

Cheers and best of luck.
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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Hey Ernest, thank you for all this information. i have a new clutch start switch ordered so i can replace it along with the cruise control switch thats also mounted under the clutch lever. i also found my "no power" problem. it is a couple of burned wires inside the main fuse block under two of the relays and one fuse. i have another fuse block already on order.

in the meantime, im afraid to try to start the bike up in fear it could short circuit and possibly catch the bike on fire or burn out the ECU. i installed the new exhaust pipe gaskets and the bike is much quieter now. i can't reuse the muffler clamps as one bolt snapped and the other one is all bent out of shape so im also ordering 2 new ones. also going to replace the TW sensor and recheck the rest of the wiring to make sure theres nothing else wrong with it. im missing 1 metal clip that holds down the air flow sensor thats mounted on the top of the air filter. i have to find one of those clips. im sure the bike salvage yard will have one somewhere. maybe i can find it on the LTD he still has in his yard.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by Rednaxs60 »

I've had a look at the inside of the fuse block on my LTD and Honda sure stuffed a lot of wiring into a very small space.

I don't need any spare parts yet, but continually look and assess if what I read about could affect mine and I do a search to see what is available.

Agree with waiting until yo get the wiring fixed. Nothing worse than adding to the aggravation.

Heading home to Ontario for Mom's birthday next month. Will be able to get a good look at this new to me LTD and ascertain what is needed. My brother will probably want to hear it turn over as will I.

Good luck. Stay warm.

Cheers
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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by WingAdmin »

roadwanderer2 wrote:ok, heres what i found......on the computer, the one thats mounted under the trunk, when i turn the key to "on" they all light up red, when i start the bike up, of the numbers 3,2,1,0, and "W", numbers 2 and 1 are flashing red, and the "W" is constant on-RED. voltage is charging at 13.7 volts @ 2000 rpm. at 4,000 rpm the voltage goes up to 14.7 volts.

i have no idea what this means, but now that i have the fiber exhaust gaskets in the rear of the front pipes, the bike is a lot quieter now.

stuart.
Here's what the lights mean:

GL1200 FI Diagnostic Lights
GL1200 FI Diagnostic Lights

1 and 2 flashing with the W solid indicates an open or shorted throttle position sensor. That would jive with what you're seeing about having to keep twisting the throttle to get it to fire up and idle.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

thanks wingadmin for clarifying this, but according to your description and the code page, the throttle sensor is a problem, which would be the #0 and #1 flashing with a solid W if im reading what you wrote and this page correctly. mine are the #1 and #2 flashing with the solid W indicating the Tw sensor is a problem. does this mean i might have multiple problems here as in 2 bad sensors?

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by WingAdmin »

roadwanderer2 wrote:thanks wingadmin for clarifying this, but according to your description and the code page, the throttle sensor is a problem, which would be the #0 and #1 flashing with a solid W if im reading what you wrote and this page correctly. mine are the #1 and #2 flashing with the solid W indicating the Tw sensor is a problem. does this mean i might have multiple problems here as in 2 bad sensors?

stuart.
oops, you're right, I was starting at 1 instead of 0. :)

TW sensor is the coolant temperature. Does it continue flashing even when it was warmed up?

I would give your coolant sensor a check and see if it is reporting values within acceptable range.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

WingAdmin wrote: oops, you're right, I was starting at 1 instead of 0. :)

TW sensor is the coolant temperature. Does it continue flashing even when it was warmed up?

I would give your coolant sensor a check and see if it is reporting values within acceptable range.
i dont know if it was flashing once it warmed up, i never took another look at it, but next time i get the bike started and have it warmed up i'll recheck the codes and post my findings. one reply told me the coolant sensor is mounted on the top right rear of the motor above the fuel pump, is that correct? from what i remember when i had the motor off the bike it has 2 square sensors mounted on the top of the motor. one on the right side and another one on the left side and a round one that has a wire that screws into the back of it mounted above and to the left of the output shaft just forward of the rear casing.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

ok, wingadmin, you had asked me if the code lights were still flashing once the bike warmed up? yes, same lights flashing even when the bike is totally up to normal engine running temperature and the "fuel system" light thats on the dash is still on. according to my book, the Tw sensor is located on the right rear of the thermostat housing. with the motor on the bike its gonna be a nightmare to get to. i might be able to squeeze my hand in there to unplug it then using a deep socket may be able to unscrew it from the housing.

IF worse comes to worse, i'll have to remove the motor again and replace all the sensors. the sensor thats on the right side of the motor just above the fuel pump is blue in color, but the connector i have connected to it is green, so im thinking that i might have one or two that aren't where they are suppose to be. tomorrow and saturday its supposed to be almost 70* here, so i'll be able to do more in depth checking on the connectors.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by WingAdmin »

You might want to check the wires running to the sensor, too - if they are pinched or broken it could cause the problem.

At 20C (68F) - room temperature - the sensor should read between 2K - 3K ohms. At 80C (176F) it should be reading 200-400 ohms.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Stuart - looked at some pics I took when I ad my engine out. There are two sensors at the thermostat housing - one in behind the engine shroud that goes over the thermostat housing. Here is a picture of it connected on my bike - coolant temp sensor:

Coolant temp sensor
Coolant temp sensor

Here is a picture of the one that fits in the thermostat housing - cooling fan switch:

Fan switch
Fan switch

Here is a picture of the one just in behind the oil fill - Tw sensor. This picture also shows the blue connector - Ns sensor - just above the fuel pump. I have joined the sensor with the appropriate cap/plug:

Tw Sensor - Blue coupler is Ns Sensor
Tw Sensor - Blue coupler is Ns Sensor

Here is a pic of the sensors installed on my bike. First the Tw sensor:

Tw sensor as hooked up
Tw sensor as hooked up

The Ns sensor:

Ns sensor as hooked up
Ns sensor as hooked up

Hope this helps
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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

WingAdmin wrote:You might want to check the wires running to the sensor, too - if they are pinched or broken it could cause the problem.

At 20C (68F) - room temperature - the sensor should read between 2K - 3K ohms. At 80C (176F) it should be reading 200-400 ohms.
thanks wingadmin, i will check those wires tomorrow when its warmer outside.

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart - looked at some pics I took when I ad my engine out. There are two sensors at the thermostat housing - one in behind the engine shroud that goes over the thermostat housing. Here is a picture of it connected on my bike - coolant temp sensor: IMG_20160509_104734934_HDR.jpg

Here is a picture of the one that fits in the thermostat housing - cooling fan switch: IMG_20160509_102023545.jpg

Here is a picture of the one just in behind the oil fill - Tw sensor. This picture also shows the blue connector - Ns sensor - just above the fuel pump. I have joined the sensor with the appropriate cap/plug: IMG_20160509_130246383.jpg

Here is a pic of the sensors installed on my bike. First the Tw sensor: Tw CSensor.jpg The Ns sensor: Ns Sensor.jpg

Hope this helps
hey Ernest, the both the coolant sensor and fan switch wires are correct as also is the wire connected to the round sensor behind and above the oil fill. is THAT the Tw sensor? i thought the Tw sensor was on the back end of the thermostat housing. looking at the one that your other pic shows is a blue Ns sensor. i have that sensor on my bike also, but what color should the connector plug on it. mine has a green plug connector, could this be the wrong connector plug thats plugged into it?

stuart.

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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by Rednaxs60 »

roadwanderer2 wrote:
Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart - looked at some pics I took when I ad my engine out. There are two sensors at the thermostat housing - one in behind the engine shroud that goes over the thermostat housing. Here is a picture of it connected on my bike - coolant temp sensor: IMG_20160509_104734934_HDR.jpg

Here is a picture of the one that fits in the thermostat housing - cooling fan switch: IMG_20160509_102023545.jpg

Here is a picture of the one just in behind the oil fill - Tw sensor. This picture also shows the blue connector - Ns sensor - just above the fuel pump. I have joined the sensor with the appropriate cap/plug: IMG_20160509_130246383.jpg

Here is a pic of the sensors installed on my bike. First the Tw sensor: Tw CSensor.jpg The Ns sensor: Ns Sensor.jpg

Hope this helps
hey Ernest, the both the coolant sensor and fan switch wires are correct as also is the wire connected to the round sensor behind and above the fuel pump. looking at the one that your other pic shows is a blue Ns sensor. i have that sensor on my bike also, but what color is the connector plug on it. mine has a green plug connector, could this be the wrong connector plug thats plugged into it?

stuart.
There can only be one connector in that area that plugs into the Ns sensor. The connector on my bike is a bit weather beaten, but it could have been green. I would say that if you have the Ns sensor connected right now it is the one that should be there. The connector for the Ns sensor comes from under the false tank and forward to connect to the Ns sensor. Does your connector look like the one on my bike, a black wire about 1/4 inch round into a rigid plastic connector, if so that is the one.
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Re: #1 cylinder and firing order GL1200A

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:
roadwanderer2 wrote:
Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart - looked at some pics I took when I ad my engine out. There are two sensors at the thermostat housing - one in behind the engine shroud that goes over the thermostat housing. Here is a picture of it connected on my bike - coolant temp sensor: IMG_20160509_104734934_HDR.jpg

Here is a picture of the one that fits in the thermostat housing - cooling fan switch: IMG_20160509_102023545.jpg

Here is a picture of the one just in behind the oil fill - Tw sensor. This picture also shows the blue connector - Ns sensor - just above the fuel pump. I have joined the sensor with the appropriate cap/plug: IMG_20160509_130246383.jpg

Here is a pic of the sensors installed on my bike. First the Tw sensor: Tw CSensor.jpg The Ns sensor: Ns Sensor.jpg

Hope this helps
hey Ernest, the both the coolant sensor and fan switch wires are correct as also is the wire connected to the round sensor behind and above the fuel pump. looking at the one that your other pic shows is a blue Ns sensor. i have that sensor on my bike also, but what color is the connector plug on it. mine has a green plug connector, could this be the wrong connector plug thats plugged into it?

stuart.
There can only be one connector in that area that plugs into the Ns sensor. The connector on my bike is a bit weather beaten, but it could have been green. I would say that if you have the Ns sensor connected right now it is the one that should be there. The connector for the Ns sensor comes from under the false tank and forward to connect to the Ns sensor. Does your connector look like the one on my bike, a black wire about 1/4 inch round into a rigid plastic connector, if so that is the one.

im not exactly sure at the moment as i just woke up and am reading/viewing this, but when i go out to start checking everything, i'll look at it, but i think its the same as yours. it is possible i might have it connected wrong, but i don't think so.

stuart.



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