1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Rednaxs60
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1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »



Looking to do some maintenance on the FI system, specifically the fuel injectors. After 32 years think a cleaning recalibration may be in order - spray patterns diminish and the internals do get gummed up. Looking for a shop here in Victoria, BC that can do this work, but no joy so far.

In my review of the various threads since I bought this bike, I found posts that mentioned that the1985 Honda Prelude fuel injectors and the '85 LTD fuel injectors are the same. Other parts such as the fuel pump is apparently the same.

I have found injectors for an '85 Honda Prelude on EBay, set of four, for around $125.00 CDN shipped. If these are compatible, not a lot of sense in having the old ones overhauled.

This is a thread from the Goldwing Facts regarding this information: http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-g ... parts.html

Anyone have information similar to this?

Cheers


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Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

good question rednaxs, so i just did some quick research on this and found that the fuel pump the person on the other site was talking about is a WALBRO GSL392HP and is sold by Summit Racing, but i dont think thats the correct pump for your bike. its output is way too high @255lph. our pumps are almost the same as far as output goes @45psi and 43gph. go onto the summit racing site and type into the search box......SUM-G3138 and take a look at it. i've done a lot of research on this fuel pump and i think its a good match for our bikes.

also, you can find all 4 "remanufactured" fuel injectors at this link.........http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Set-Of-4-Fu ... T7&vxp=mtr they are much cheaper than the $125 your looking at, but do your research on the injectors output first before you order them to make sure they are a match to your OEM injectors.

you can also go onto rockauto.com and look for your injectors there. you have to look under the 85 honda prelude 2.0 ltr engine. let me know if theres something else i can research for you.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Thanks Stuart - good find on the price, unfortunately that company does not ship to Canada.

Thinking I might pull one of the injectors and measure it up. There are aftermarket fuel pumps that deliver up to 75 PSI that would be good. Need a few PSI more than we need which is around 40 PSI.

Have been out on the bike, and it does not Idle the best when first started in the cold. There have been a few threads of late where carbs are being overhauled. This got me to thinking about the fuel injectors in our bikes.

Cheers
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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by tbeiler »

Hey Gents, I did a bit of research on the Walbro pumps.
It appears that the GCL616 would be appropriate for our LTDs.
Walbro GCL616 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Line High Pressure fuel pump operating at 12 Volts with 45 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 32 GPH @ Outlet.

Pulled this info from the web showing the OEM GW and Prelude pumps. Apparently, they are one and the same.
Goldwing OEM = 16700-PE7-748
Prelude OEM = 06167-PE7-751

The Walbro site has a really good cross reference to OEM part numbers.

Walbro GCL616 Cross Reference
Manufacturer Part Number
Acura 06167-PE7-751
Acura 16700-PG7-663
Chrysler MD062978
Delphi 25337221
Denso 951-3003
Hella H75020111
Honda 06167-PE7-751
Honda 06167-PE7-761
Honda 16700-PD6-662
Honda 16700-PE7-734
Honda 16700-PE7-736
Honda 16700-PE7-748
Honda 16700-PJ5-621
Mazda N304-13-350L
Mitsubishi MD062978
Mitsubishi MD074182
Toyota 23210-35010

My other bike is a CX650T which coincidentally uses the same fuel pump. On this forum, a member ordered the Denso 951-3003 pump, it came with Denso box and Denso instructions, but inside was a Walbro pump.
They also have a variety of fittings to adapt to our bikes. When I need it this is what I'll be getting.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

tbeiler, thats very good information on the fuel pumps. apparently the 86 SEi puts out a little more gph's than the 85 does, so there is a slight difference between the 2 bikes as far as the fuel pumps are concerned. the closest match to my 86 SEI's fuel pump is from Summit Racing #SUM-G3138. if rednaxs can look up his fuel pump specs, im sure we/I can find one that will be a very close match to his OEM pump.

rednaxs, here is a seller that ships to canada.................http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Injector-B ... 4C&vxp=mtr only problem is their warranty isn't as good as the other sellers, but its something you might want to consider, especially the price.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by tbeiler »

Hey Stuart, didn't know the SEi and Ltd were different pumps, Haven't checked to see the SEi gph requirement, but can't be significantly more.
The Walbro lineup does have many pumps with different specs, ie higher gal/hour, pressures, etc., all in the same dimensions of pump, it's only the internals that are different.
Send them an email, they are happy to size up the correct model for you.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Stuart/Tony thanks for the info. Also found a fuel pump that fits the Honda Prelude and puts out 75 PSI. GPH should be good as well. Lots of options.

Like the injector site - has a TPS as well for little cost. Would need to fashion a centre piece to suit, but when the TPS is only $5.00 you can take your time.

Having discussion on another forum regarding this and we're into philosophy about these FI bikes. Other than the CFI computer, I'm of the opinion that everything else can be overcome. I've also read where the is/was a company in Florida that would refurbish the CFI computer as well.

Lots to investigate and keep I the back pocket.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

tbeiler wrote:Hey Stuart, didn't know the SEi and Ltd were different pumps, Haven't checked to see the SEi gph requirement, but can't be significantly more.
The Walbro lineup does have many pumps with different specs, ie higher gal/hour, pressures, etc., all in the same dimensions of pump, it's only the internals that are different.
Send them an email, they are happy to size up the correct model for you.
there was a thread on this somewhere on this site where wingadmin gave me the specs for the SEi's fuel pump, thats how i know which pump to look at, i spent some time on the Summit Racing site checking into the specs on different fuel pumps, and had a chat with one of their techs, and after i gave him my bikes fuel pump specs, and he suggested the SUM-G3138 pump which is almost a direct match for the SEi's pump specs in gph and pump pressure and its only $84.97 plus shipping, which is WAY better than honda's price of almost $650.00. of course i COULD get a used OEM pump for $200-$300 dollars on ebay, or go to the bike salvage yard near me and get the one from the 85 LTD he has for $50.bucks, but for 30 more, i'd rather get the new one from Summit Racing. here is a direct link to the pump on the Summit Racing website...........https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3138 when you go to the page and where it shows the pump and part number on the right side of the page, go to where it says "more detail" and left click on it and scroll down and it will give you all the specs for that fuel pump. try to match it to YOUR bike's pump specs. who knows, it might be the same as yours also. Ernest, you can also have a "live chat" with them to find out which pump will work with YOUR bike as well.

stuart.
Last edited by roadwanderer2 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart/Tony thanks for the info. Also found a fuel pump that fits the Honda Prelude and puts out 75 PSI. GPH should be good as well. Lots of options.

Like the injector site - has a TPS as well for little cost. Would need to fashion a centre piece to suit, but when the TPS is only $5.00 you can take your time.

Having discussion on another forum regarding this and we're into philosophy about these FI bikes. Other than the CFI computer, I'm of the opinion that everything else can be overcome. I've also read where the is/was a company in Florida that would refurbish the CFI computer as well.

Lots to investigate and keep I the back pocket.

Cheers
if your bike's pump is putting out between 40-45 PSI, wouldn't a pump that puts out 75 PSI be a little too much pressure? i would think that would do more harm than good. personally, i would be happy finding one that put out maybe 45-50 PSI and still staying within "normal or just above "normal" PSI range.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart/Tony thanks for the info. Also found a fuel pump that fits the Honda Prelude and puts out 75 PSI. GPH should be good as well. Lots of options.

Like the injector site - has a TPS as well for little cost. Would need to fashion a centre piece to suit, but when the TPS is only $5.00 you can take your time.

Having discussion on another forum regarding this and we're into philosophy about these FI bikes. Other than the CFI computer, I'm of the opinion that everything else can be overcome. I've also read where the is/was a company in Florida that would refurbish the CFI computer as well.

Lots to investigate and keep I the back pocket.

Cheers
Ernest, i did some research on this "refurbishing" of the CFI, i did find one place down in florida, but they are closed for the day. their website shows CFI repairs made for porsche, bmw, and ferrari, but not sure about motorcycles. im gonna call them tomorrow and find out if they or if they know of a place that does this.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Stuart - checked out the fuel pp site. If the external dimensions match mine, the pump you have found would do fine. That's why we have a pressure regulator in the system. Need a bit more pressure than design operating pressure.

Look forward to hearing about the business in Florida.

Putting all this information in my personal log/article on buying/owning an older vintage motorcycle.

Cheers
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Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:Stuart - checked out the fuel pp site. If the external dimensions match mine, the pump you have found would do fine. That's why we have a pressure regulator in the system. Need a bit more pressure than design operating pressure.

Look forward to hearing about the business in Florida.

Putting all this information in my personal log/article on buying/owning an older vintage motorcycle.

Cheers
glad to hear the pump might work for your bike too. i have a message into that company down in florida. i should have some kind of an answer tomorrow and i'll let you know.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Getting a good list of acceptable alternatives for these older FI bikes. Once I correlate my information will send, and probably post. If enough information is out there debunking a lot of the myths about these FI bikes, maybe we'll see a few more on the road. I know, I'm sort of partial to mine, but I also prefer fuel injection over carbs.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by tbeiler »

Was just checking the 85 LTD fuel pump specs from the 85 LTD service manual supplement.

With the engine not running the pressure should be 2.4-2.7 kg/cm' (34-38 psi).
At idle (1,000 ±100 rpm). The pressure should be 2.0-2.4 kg/cm^ (28-34 psi)
The specified capacity is 630 cc (21.3 oz.) per minute minimum, OR 37.8 liters per hour mnimum OR 10.0 US gals/hr minimum

So the Summit G3138 specs out at Free Flow Rate: 43 gph with Maximum Pressure (psi): 45 psi
The Walbro GCL616 specs out at a minimum flow rate of 32 gals/hr and max pressure 45 psi.
The Walbro pump is minimum flow rate, the Summit doesn't specify if its minimum or average.

Looks to me that either pump would be agood fit.

Anyone know the fuel pump specs for the SEi. Be good to compare the 85 LTD and 86SEi.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

tbeiler wrote:Was just checking the 85 LTD fuel pump specs from the 85 LTD service manual supplement.

With the engine not running the pressure should be 2.4-2.7 kg/cm' (34-38 psi).
At idle (1,000 ±100 rpm). The pressure should be 2.0-2.4 kg/cm^ (28-34 psi)
The specified capacity is 630 cc (21.3 oz.) per minute minimum, OR 37.8 liters per hour mnimum OR 10.0 US gals/hr minimum

So the Summit G3138 specs out at Free Flow Rate: 43 gph with Maximum Pressure (psi): 45 psi
The Walbro GCL616 specs out at a minimum flow rate of 32 gals/hr and max pressure 45 psi.
The Walbro pump is minimum flow rate, the Summit doesn't specify if its minimum or average.

Looks to me that either pump would be agood fit.

Anyone know the fuel pump specs for the SEi. Be good to compare the 85 LTD and 86SEi.

tbeiler, the service book i have is for the 86 GL1200 SE and it shows the same fuel pump specs as the 85 LTD which is leading me to think that the the Summit G3138 WILL be a good pump for both bikes.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by tbeiler »

Interesting that both spec out the same, yet fuel pump part numbers are different between 85 and 86. What gives?

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by WingAdmin »

tbeiler wrote:Interesting that both spec out the same, yet fuel pump part numbers are different between 85 and 86. What gives?
Honda sometimes changes vendors for an item, even though the specs are identical, they change the part number because of the vendor change. It may or may not be the case here.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:Getting a good list of acceptable alternatives for these older FI bikes. Once I correlate my information will send, and probably post. If enough information is out there debunking a lot of the myths about these FI bikes, maybe we'll see a few more on the road. I know, I'm sort of partial to mine, but I also prefer fuel injection over carbs.

Cheers
rednaxs, although i like both my 1100A AND my 1200A SEi, i can't compare them. my 1200 runs so much better with its fuel injection than my 1100 carbed bike. the throttle response is incredible and the torque and top end power is great. i think these older fuel injected bikes were ahead of their time in power and performance. i can only imagine what it would feel like on an 1800 or even a 1500 fuel injected machine.

i know im gonna need to replace the fuel pump SOON because it's starting to give me problems. its making a lot of noises and sometimes gets "vapor locked". last week i took it for a ride on the "dragon" and when i got to the scenic overlook, i stopped for about 15 minutes to take a break, and when i went to start it back up, it wouldn't start,(acted like it wasn't getting any fuel to the injectors), and i had to sit there for about a half hour to let it cool down before it finally started up again. this is the 2nd time this happened at the same location.

hopefully once all the "bugs" are worked out, i'll have my SEi ready for its "maiden voyage" with me riding it down to the florida keys this coming summer. next month will be a good test for it. i have a dr. appointment at the veterans hospital which is 147 miles,(each way), from where i live, and i plan on taking it for the ride to see just how well it will run and what kind of fuel mileage i'll be getting.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Have been digging into the various forums for information on these older FI bikes. Lots of good information being found. As for the 1800, it does go like a "raped ape" compared to the 1200 if you will pardon the vernacular. Very smooth on start and when riding. As has been said over the decades, there is no replacement for displacement. The 1800 is also purpose built like the 1200 unlike say the BMW 1600 sports touring bike that has different operating modes you can select.

Not a lot of information on fuel injectors, but a lot of information on the '85 and '86 CFI system. There system has no oxygen sensor as per the newer FI systems. It is fairly agricultural and as designed works extremely well. The newer systems that can have the CFI tweaked/upgraded are designed this way and have ports to hook into. Since it was only in very limited production for two years, not much has been done to modify the LTD and SEi fuel injection system; however, a few have adapted the LTD and SEi FI system to previously carbed models.

Wingadmin is correct regarding the difference in P/Ns. It reminds me of GM and how the parts for a Chevy were different from a Cadillac, but were the very same part. Once you start to look at the specs for an item, you can probably find a suitable lower cost item.

The front crankshaft seal on the 1200 is the same as for a 1500 but the part number is different. The 1200 P/N is 91201-MG9-005 (35X59X8). The 1500 P/N is 91201-MN5-003 (35X59X8). Same size different number. Read where the 1500 seal has been installed on a 1200 and is working fine.

Good luck on your trip to the veteran's hospital.

Cheers
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Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

when you talk about different part numbers and the parts actually fit different year/models, some of the parts have the same numbers but fit many different year/model bikes. sometimes i wonder why these parts,(even tho they fit many model bikes), are so damn expensive.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

I would say it's economy of scale. Making parts for a bike that only has a production run of approximately 5000 units becomes expensive to put parts on the shelf even if it is used on other years and models. Some parts get used regularly, others hardly at all; hence the need for us to be inventive and to find suitable substitutes that are the same even if used in a car.

Aren't older vintage bikes great!

Cheers
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Ernest

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Rednaxs60 wrote:I would say it's economy of scale. Making parts for a bike that only has a production run of approximately 5000 units becomes expensive to put parts on the shelf even if it is used on other years and models. Some parts get used regularly, others hardly at all; hence the need for us to be inventive and to find suitable substitutes that are the same even if used in a car.

Aren't older vintage bikes great!

Cheers
hey, whatever it takes to keep these classic bikes on the road, im all for it. don't forget, i rescued my SEi out of a junk yard. saved it from a horrible death by keeping it out of a car crusher. :)

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by roadwanderer2 »

Ernest, as for the fuel injectors, i got a reply back from the seller and canada would also be considered "international shipping". the only thing i can think of now would be for me to purchase them and have them shipped to me, then i could turn around and ship them to you for whatever the shipping cost would be to canada. let me know if you are willing or would consider to do this.........and as for the ECU "refurbishing" i haven't heard back from that company yet.

stuart.

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Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rednaxs60 »

On my new to me '85, found the fuel pump is not working - thinking I should send it back to Honda for warranty. :lol: Will be ordering new fuel pump so going to look at the Walbro GCL616. Will be calling the local parts shop where my brother lives for availability and cost. More to follow.
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Location: New castle, PA
Motorcycle: 86 GL1200 SEi, 98 Valkyrie Std, 78 Yamaha XS750SE, 86 Honda XL125, 4.5 HP belt drive Minibike my dad built, foot clutch!

Re: 1985 GL1200 Limited Edition Fuel Injectors

Post by Rusty Bike »

Lots of good info here guys. I have done some of the same research. Have you guys read the thread where the TPS can be set for a lower than speced voltage to lean out the mix from the injectors. I need to refind that thread. My SEi tends to load up at idle. the thing does run good though.

I have ridden a few times this winter when the salt gets washed off the road. I was going to sell this bike because I bought a Valkyrie but am haveing second thoughts. LOL They are different machines. Valk for hot weather and solo rideing, SEi for cool weather and a passenger.... Ain't life grand!



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