Poor Boy questions


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Saintjude33
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »



I have a couple of thoughts/questions as I am going through the Poorboy conversion I got in the mail Wednesday.

First of all- Thanks to Don Pigott for marketing this conversion at a do-it-yourselfer kit. I opted for the base model- sans wiring and alternator. I'm confident in my skills, and it did save me some $$ in the end. There's another kit out there for even more than Don's, and it has a timing belt cover with it, but that's money I could use for upgrades, tires, breaks, fluids....you're all 'Wingers, you know these bikes don't run on hopes and dreams :)

So thinking about the original Poor Boy conversion article from Don, and this competitor's set- what is the easiest and best way to cut the hole in the timing belt cover? And I understand these may not be one and the same.

I've also run into an obstacle getting these covers on and off- literally. My crash bars are in the way. Since trying to monkey these covers out through the bars the gasket that goes around them has been pulled off. It's not damaged, but there appears to be some sort of (brown) adhesive holding them on- or at least there was. Anyone have any suggestions on getting the gasket to stay on while I try to monkey it back in? I'm going to get the bars off, so that won't cause future issues.

I'll toss up any more thoughts/questions/concerns as I work the project. I've got some buddies coming up tomorrow after a half-shift in the shop, so they're going to give me a hand on it. Thanks.



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paneled
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Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing 1200 aspencade sei

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by paneled »

when I did mine I took both the timing covers off and attached them to a 1 x 8 by three foot piece of
pine with drywall screws and washers, positioning them just as they would bolt up on the motor, then
took the proper size hole saw chucked up in a drill press and drilled the hole where it needed to be,
cleaned the edges with sand paper and installed on the bike. wished I had pics but I don`t
86 aspy sei
54 chevy panel truck
68 chevy van
69 chevy van
64 chevy van

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Saintjude33
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Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »

Here's the update on this-

Turns out I ordered the wrong alternator from O'Reilley's Auto parts. Had to go back to Rock Auto and got the correct one for bout $100 overnight shipping, and funny enough, no core charge. It fit like a glove, now I need a third hand to put tension on the belt while I tighten the bolts in.

As for the timing cover, Paneled's suggestion worked like glass. The timing cover was a cinch to drill once I had it pinned to a piece od 1x8 screwed to a 2x4.

The gaskets on the cover went back on with a tiny dab of RTV, so the crash bars weren't an issue there, however they DO get in the way on the left side where the belt passes through. I wrapped a ratchet strap around it to the bottom frame bolt and bent it down, no problem. I actually put a cut in the bottom side to make it easier, but that turned out to be totally unnecessary.

Put the alt in place last night, wired it up in 10 minutes, fired her up, and BAM! I got charge.

12.5V at idle
13.8 at 1100RPM.

Going to mount a voltometer to the right side faring cover to monitor it, I won't feel comfortable for at least a year on this.

Beerlover
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Interstate

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Beerlover »

There is a circle stamped in the covers (half one each cover). I just used a grinder and ate away at the cover until I had the space of the hole removed. Then cleaned it up a little with a dremel. I had to take the right side crash guard loose and tip it out of the way in order to get the right side cover in/out. The left side cleared the left side guard just fine. It's a good time to replace your timing belts since you're in there anyway.

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Saintjude33
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »

Good thought, new timing belts are way cheaper than a new engine.

Next roadblock was the fan. Put the extensions on the bottom per the Poor Boy instructions. Pushed the fan closer to the radiator with the bolts. Popped the assembly back on, but the alternator rides a bit high and inside, so the belt rubs against the housing that the fan is bolted to. I even trimmed the bracket so far back that I have the fan connected by only two bolts, but it's still not enough. I got the 3PK790 belt from the kit, but it's a bit short- probably due to the standard pulley on the alternator. I buy belts for a living, so I have feelers out to my belt suppliers and Gates Rep to see if they make something longer. The one I got with the kit is 31 5-8 inch long, I think an inch or two will move the alternator out and down a bit, and that may give it a much different angle.

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Saintjude33
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »

Well, I think I'm actually beginning to regret doing the alternator conversion on this bike. I got the correct alternator for it, but the belt rubs right along the crash bar mount. And the fan housing. It also has almost no adjustability- I thought of doing it with an inch longer belt, but that's a bit tough to guess on and find.

Then the lower mounting bracket doesn't lay flat, and I thought that was kinda odd, but the length of the belt won't allow for it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? The 2-4 hour job has now had my bike down for longer than a stator job would have taken :(

Getting discouraged.

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oldishwinger
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by oldishwinger »

Saintjude33 wrote:Well, I think I'm actually beginning to regret doing the alternator conversion on this bike. I got the correct alternator for it, but the belt rubs right along the crash bar mount. And the fan housing. It also has almost no adjustability- I thought of doing it with an inch longer belt, but that's a bit tough to guess on and find.

Then the lower mounting bracket doesn't lay flat, and I thought that was kinda odd, but the length of the belt won't allow for it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? The 2-4 hour job has now had my bike down for longer than a stator job would have taken :(

Getting discouraged.
its gets very fiddly because the tolerances are very small, where the belt, crankshaft pulley and radiator reside and can take a lot swearing to get it all right, it can take some outside the square thinking too.

check the alignment of the alt. pulley and the crankshaft pulley in my case I had to put a spacer behind the crankshaft pulley to line it up. you may need to also fiddle with the upper and lower bolts holding the alt. tolerances are small but lined up properly the belt should just clear the crash bar mounts etc.

next cut the left lower leg off the fan holder, you may also have to cut the cowl running along the bottom of the fan holders, you about an inch if not more off and it runs between the right hand arm, and the one you cut off. lower the fan as far as you can without it hitting the radiator.

the spacers at the bottom of the radiator may not on their own, provide enough space, for the radiator and fan to clear the belt and bottom pulley. in my case, a friend helped me and we put about 5 washers on each spacer, and tapped the end of the spacers, so the radiator could be bolted on.

it was never going to be a 2 hour job, but its definitely doable

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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Rednaxs60 »

My alt conversion has a few issues that could be better and the amount of time to correct these would far outweigh getting the bike on the road.

The "85 LTD (fuel injected model) has even less room than the carb models. Oldishwinger mentions the modification to the fan bracket. Here are a couple of pictures regarding his comments:


You can see the fourth leg cut off and I trimmed the fan blades as well. Cooling from the fan seems to be unaffected by this. The fan is moved as far forward as possible and is right up against the rad. here is the fan with spacers to move it closer to the rad:


I used a power steering pulley off a Honda Prelude - 4 inch diameter. To space this out from the engine I used two bearings with a 12 mm bore and 3 - 1/8 inch washers as shown:


Went to my local fastener place and got a longer bolt to fit. When I installed the bolt I used blue locktite and let it sit overnight.

Here is the pulley with the new bolt and spacer system:


I used a union nut to push the bottom of the rad out:


I also moved the rad out at the top by installing a new upper rad hose that was approximately 1 inch longer than OEM. Gave a bit more room all round.

Hope this is informative.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Saintjude33
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »

Well, she'd back together- mostly. I just have to be gentle with the plastics, some are cracking pretty badly.

I've got the right side plastics on all set, going to ignore the two faring mounts that normally sit below the radiator- lost that piece of the faring anyway.

Trying to get the pieces of the left side to slide in, over and around the alt, looks like some serious doctoring is in order. As long as I can get the false tank and side panels on I'm not going to sweat it.

I just want my baby back together and ride.

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oldishwinger
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by oldishwinger »

Saintjude33 wrote:Well, she'd back together- mostly. I just have to be gentle with the plastics, some are cracking pretty badly.

I've got the right side plastics on all set, going to ignore the two faring mounts that normally sit below the radiator- lost that piece of the faring anyway.

Trying to get the pieces of the left side to slide in, over and around the alt, looks like some serious doctoring is in order. As long as I can get the false tank and side panels on I'm not going to sweat it.

I just want my baby back together and ride.
the lower fairing should fit around the alt. with only a few minor adjustments if you shape the bottom of the lower fairing, to be able to slide inward, past the edge of the radiator.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Rednaxs60 »

I used a heat gun to form the lower fairing a bit to fit around the alternator. Can't even see where I did the change.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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MNAspencade
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Motorcycle: 1989 gl1500
1985 Gl1200 Aspencade - sold

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by MNAspencade »

Well my stator went belly up this week. I plan on doing the conversion myself. Welding of the brackets are about the only thin I think I will have to part out. I have a couple of questions - I was planning on getting the alt from O'rileys Part # R110602A - is this a correct one?? I realize there needs some trimming done prior to use. Thanks to Rednaxs60 for the post about the bottom pulley - has it worked well for you ?? some of the prelude pulleys I looked at had a splined inner bore?

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Rednaxs60 »

The pulley has worked well. I had to do some filing of the internal bore as it had a flat spot to prevent turning. I have had no issues to date with mine, used blue locktite to secure the bolt. I have also seen where some have drilled a small hole in the pulley and fashioned a lock washer to prevent the bolt from turning. The inner bore of the pulley should be a friction fit so that the bolt will stay tight - splined or smooth should be fine. The only issue with using the 4" pulley is having to remove it if I take the timing covers off.

Had a look at the alternator. It is a 55 amp unit and you will have to remove the lower back mounting arrangement. I'm surmising that your ASPY is a carb model and you are replacing a 350 watt stator - approximately 30 amp output. If so you can easily drop to a 40 amp unit that may be a bit smaller (easier to install) and may only be a 2 mount versus a three mount unit. Bigger is not always better in some cases.

I have made drawings of the brackets I used - made from 1" mild steel andgle:


Don't rush, it will all come together.

Good luck. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Saintjude33
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Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Saintjude33 »

MNAspencade wrote:. I have a couple of questions - I was planning on getting the alt from O'rileys Part # R110602A - is this a correct one?? I realize there needs some trimming done prior to use. ?
That's the one, I got the wrong one from O'Reiley's, so it's scrap. You can also go to RockAuto, I got the Nippondenso one for about $75, no core, overnight shipping was about $10.

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MNAspencade
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by MNAspencade »

Just curious - what was wrong with the unit you got from O'rileys ? Did they send out a different one, or was it a fitment issue? I understand that the back leg will have to be trimmed off to be able to fit. From a casual look it looks the same as one from Rock auto (13214N).

Thanks Rednaxs60 for the drawings they will help a bunch. I am still thinking of going with the 55W alternator because I eventually plan on adding a trailer for camping and a few more lights. Would rather have more capacity than not enough.

Thanks for the help !

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MNAspencade
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by MNAspencade »

I am glad to say I have finished my alternator conversion project. Thanks to Don for the concept of the conversion. Now there is 13+ volts at idle and 14+ volts at 3k rpm. There are many posts on how to do the conversion so I will not outline them here but I would like to pass on the parts of the process that took some time to figure out. Fist off the pulley debate - I chose a 3.5" ( KRC 40150340) 3 rib pulley - available from a variety of sites in the $36 range. Alternator was from O'rieillys (R110602a)

Lower pulley and Alt in place
Lower pulley and Alt in place

For a spacer on the lower pulley I used 12mm fender washers ( I know not the best but available and affordable). Brackets I had welded at a local muffler shop after cutting and shaping myself. The belt took 3 trips into town (35 miles - I live in the boonies) finally settled on a Gates K040315 - Had to trim one rib off but it was easy - fits well but out near max outer adjustment. The radiator fan was adjusted using longer fan mounting screws (like this http://gl1200goldwings.com/techcenter/article1003.htm ) to tip the fan. The lower left leg was removed and the lower slot in the fan ring was increased and a small notch had to be cut above where the lower left leg was. Not having a local source for metric unions for the lower radiator mounts I used a split ring hanger ( american valve #302049) - CAUTION - the package says 3/4 in but the actual opening is 1 in as needed for the lower bar.

split ring hangar for lower rad mount
split ring hangar for lower rad mount

I cut of the original mounting bolts leaving only a very small stub to help prevent the split ring hanger from turning.

cut lower rad mount
cut lower rad mount

Then a 3/8 in carriage bolt (or threaded rod ) cut to size allowed for variable adjustment of the lower radiator.

new lower rad mount
new lower rad mount

I was able to reuse the lower radiator hose as my off set was not too large. I was able to reuse the lower center radiator trim piece with only minor creative trimming.

My one question to the electrical typed here on the forums is that I only have 2 wires wired up to the alternator - the large (6G) wire and the exciter circuit. Should I have the battery sense wired as well? I plan on installing a voltmeter at a later date.

If anyone has any ideas of where to locate the displaced left horn please let me know.

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JFRRACING
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Motorcycle: 1985 1200 goldwing aspencade

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by JFRRACING »

i decided to buy just the brackets since i already had everything else. i just got this last month. he does sell a complete kit. u said u hadn't heard back from him. here is the email address i used if it's different than the one u used. this is the information he sent me.... my kit 2 ways, as a complete conversion kit & a mounting kit. The complete kit comes with all needed parts + I do the needed mods to the alternator. It is $525.00 + $30.00 shipping/handling in the U.S.. The mounting kit is minus the alternator, belt & wiring. It is $215.00 + $15.00 shipping/handling in the U. S.. --- don_pigott@yahoo.com....hope this helps. he got back to me very quick.

SEIgivesmewings
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Motorcycle: 1986 honda goldwing sei aspencade 1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by SEIgivesmewings »

I'm about to make my own poor boy brackets, Im about to get a alternator but my question is my bike is a 1986 goldwing 1200 SEI and they put out more watts than the carbed goldwing now my question is will I have to get a alternator that puts out more than 55 watt, also I'm quiet good with fabrication after 45 years in auto body but any help with the wiring it up would be appreciated

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Rednaxs60
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1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by Rednaxs60 »

Been using a 55 amp alternator for the past 3 years and lots of power. Don't need to go bigger.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

SEIgivesmewings
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Motorcycle: 1986 honda goldwing sei aspencade 1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by SEIgivesmewings »

Ok thanks a lot rednaxs60

sportsfreaked
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Motorcycle: 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate GL1100I
1985 Honda Goldwing Limited Edition gl1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by sportsfreaked »

I put a 70 amp on my GL1200 Limited edition. It was the same price as a 50 amp so I thought what the hell lol. It's been working great for the past year or so. You'll be glad you did it!
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

SEIgivesmewings
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Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by SEIgivesmewings »

Ok thanks for the input sportsfreaked. Can either of you tell me what pulley you went with? Also is there a way I can use my stock volt meter or do I have to buy a different one and mount it some place.

sportsfreaked
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Motorcycle: 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate GL1100I
1985 Honda Goldwing Limited Edition gl1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by sportsfreaked »

You can use the stock volt meter. You'll need a breaker to put between the alternator and the battery. The pulley I ordered a 4 inch Pulley. I believe Rednax used one from a honda car if I'm not mistaken. Let me see if I can find it and I'll repost. I'll also repost my alternator that I got from Amazon.
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

sportsfreaked
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Motorcycle: 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate GL1100I
1985 Honda Goldwing Limited Edition gl1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by sportsfreaked »

here is the pulley ....https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0086 ... UTF8&psc=1

alternator is https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BP ... UTF8&psc=1

these are what I used. I also put in a 70 amp breaker on the wiring from the alternator to the battery as close to the battery as possible. I have no issues after hooking it up. I run at between 13.8 to 14.0 volts. Once you get into it it will all start making sense. It's a bit intimidating at first. Rednax (Ernest) was a huge help to me when I did mine so I'm just happy to pass on the knowledge. Now he had more time then I did to get mine up and running so mine is a very simple wiring set up. Once I can get another bike I will do all the wiring that he did. Best of luck to you!
Thanks to all who answer and help. It is greatly appreciated!
Ed

SEIgivesmewings
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Location: Enoch, Utah
Motorcycle: 1986 honda goldwing sei aspencade 1200

Re: Poor Boy questions

Post by SEIgivesmewings »

Thanks for all that good info deffinatly going to help me, I already have a alternator comming I bought on Ebay it goes to a geo metro 1995 the pulley on it is for the flat ribbed belt, havnt really decided what belts the best I have read good and bad about both but probably go with the flat ribbed type since that's the pulley that's on the alternator.



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