85 LE starter clutch

[GWClint]

Hi I have a 85 LE I bought new and only has 20,000 Km on it. It hadn't run for about a year and wouldn't start so thinking it was fuel problem put some injector cleaner in the tank, and next day tried starting it again. I ran the starter quite a while and when it started there was this squeal or chirping that sounds to me like maybe the starter clutch is not releasing. Is this a possibility and has anyone any ideas about how to release it. I put a can of sea foam in the crankcase and ran for about an hour a couple of times and took it for a 20 km spin. Sound is still there, don't want to run it much more because if the engine is spinning the starter that can't be good for the starter.
If I take the starter off is there anyway for me to turn the starter sprocket backward, to try to release the clutch?
Hope some one has some Insite into this. Thanks in advance

[SilverDave]

In a 30 year old machine, even one with low miles, when you remove the starter ( which is a pain , clearance wise ) you will surely find all sorts of yucky grunge , a mix of carbon ( brushes ) and grease.

Ugh ..

Cleaning and possibly new starter bearings can make quite a difference......

SilverDave

[Rednaxs60]

Welcome to the FCW (four cylinder wing) and fuel injected brotherhood. Great bikes once you get the kinks ironed out. Have one with a few more Kms than yours and it is a treat to ride.

Firstly, do you have the manuals. If not, PM me with email address and I will send PDF copies via wetransfer. You need the OEM service manual, supplement and electrical troubleshooting manuals. Have additional information depending on what you are going to do.

Sea foam in the oil is in actuality a temporary fix. The engine should be removed and the 3 small items, rollers/spring and pin should be replaced or at least cleaned. A lot of work for a small item so do try the recommendations found on this forum and others as well.

To remove the starter you will have to drop the exhaust and remove the exhaust stud closest to the starter. Been there done that on a couple of occasions. Once you have the starter off, you can reach in and should be able to turn the starter chain one way but not the other. If you can do this, the starter clutch is operating as it should. Most issues with the starter clutch is the starter will spin but the engine will not turn because the starter clutch will not engage.

Once you have the starter off, highly unlikely that you will be able to turn it without applying power to it.

If you take the starter off, hook it up to a battery and spin it. No noise, then the issue of the noise is not the starter. Turning the starter chain will also allow you to rule out the starter clutch as well.

Hope this helps. Cheers

[GWClint]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I will take the starter off and see if I can turn the sprocket one way and not the other, but first I have discovered that when the engine is running, and the chirping/squealing is at a certain frequency, I can snap the throttle, jumping the rpm but the chirping frequencies dosent follow, which would indicate that the engine is not driving the starter when running.
Any thoughts as to what the sound could be?

[Rednaxs60]

If the starter is doing its job and the starter clutch is not keeping the starter engaged, I would not take off the starter - lots of work for very little return at this time. If the starter were spinning without engaging you would know that the starter clutch will require attention eventually.

As to the noise, you can do a video with sound and post on your thread. Has to be information here on how to do this.

Cheers

[plumbermullins]

With the engine running and making that noise place a lead from a volt meter on the terminal from the starter and the other lead to ground while the engine is running,if you have voltage the starter is turning with the engine, no voltage on turning.
brush motors turn into generators when driven. hence the voltage.
good luck

[WingAdmin]

The starter clutch cannot be keeping the starter engaged - the design of it is such that it can't work that way. If it did, the engine would be spinning the starter so fast that it would burn up the starter in a very short time. You'd be hearing quite a bit more than a chirping noise.

[GWClint]

With the engine running and making that noise place a lead from a volt meter on the terminal from the starter and the other lead to ground while the engine is running,if you have voltage the starter is turning with the engine, no voltage on turning.
brush motors turn into generators when driven. hence the voltage.
good luck

Thank you for your reply, you are right of course, should have thought of that myself, and no there is no voltage being generated. Thanks again

[GWClint]

If the starter is doing its job and the starter clutch is not keeping the starter engaged, I would not take off the starter - lots of work for very little return at this time. If the starter were spinning without engaging you would know that the starter clutch will require attention eventually.

As to the noise, you can do a video with sound and post on your thread. Has to be information here on how to do this.

Cheers

Thanks I will try to figure out how to post a sound recording/video

[GWClint]

The starter clutch cannot be keeping the starter engaged - the design of it is such that it can't work that way. If it did, the engine would be spinning the starter so fast that it would burn up the starter in a very short time. You'd be hearing quite a bit more than a chirping noise.

Hi thanks for the reply, I agree, the starter clutch should not be able to stay engaged when the force is reversed, even if it were gummed up. And I used a stethoscope to try to determine a higher frequency on the starter when engine is running and was not able to hear anything that would indicate the starter was being spun buy the engine.
Also as the rpm is increased the noise level is reduce to almost nothing

[GWClint]

The starter clutch cannot be keeping the starter engaged - the design of it is such that it can't work that way. If it did, the engine would be spinning the starter so fast that it would burn up the starter in a very short time. You'd be hearing quite a bit more than a chirping noise.

Hi thanks for the reply, I agree, the starter clutch should not be able to stay engaged when the force is reversed, even if it were gummed up. And I used a stethoscope to try to determine a higher frequency on the starter when engine is running and was not able to hear anything that would indicate the starter was being spun buy the engine.
Also as the rpm is increased the noise level is reduce to almost nothing

Hi guys, you have helped me to the point where I don't think I have a starter clutch problem, but I still have this noise that is highest at low idle speeds and diminishes as the rpm increases to basically nothing at about 2000 RPM. Is there a way for me to attach a short sound recording or vid with sound on here? Maybe someone has had a similar problem and can identify the sound. A friend of mine says sounds like the engine is not aspirating properly?? I have a tendency to agree but have no idea how or why. I have not noticed any lack of performance. Just this ungodly sound at low idle

[julimike54]

Make video, place on youtube, copy web address, open post reply, use button labeled 'youtube' and insert web address.
Easy peasy