Alternator conversion kit.


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Chompper26
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Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:31 am



Ok so since i may be looking at a blown stator on my 85 limited i figured might as well just swap to an alternator. Problem is i cant find the poorboy conversion kit anywhere. I keep running into dead links or worse sites that say links for the kit here only to find no such link exists. So if the kits not available anymore can anyone give me a shopping list i will need to gather the parts or if it is still available a good link to order it?



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AZgl1800
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:54 am

~John

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:39 pm

I did this mod on my '85 LTD last year. Sourced all the parts myself. Use a 1988 Pontiac Firefly 1.0 litre turbo alternator rated at 55 amps. Will have to cut off the rear foot. Some of these alternators come with a removable rear foot.

Here is a schematic of the two brackets I made out of 1" angle:


The crank pulley came off a 1985 Honda Prelude power steering pump.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Thank you for all the responses. I have decided to go ahead and do the mod as my bike is down right now with a mystery electric system problem. I got the new battery but wont start so i gotta figure out what burned or fuse popped or something. So since thats going on and i gotta disassemble the bike anyway i figure might as well do this now too.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Here's my thread on this mod: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33149
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

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Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Ok well ran down the problem and it is the stator. So now i can get the bike started but it wont charge. Had a bad rectifier /regulator replaced that and was immediately kicked down by the grimlins with a bad stator. So to fix this problem permanently im going to do the conversion. And is that pontiac alternator a 1,2 or 3 wire?

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:17 pm

3 wire. Lots around, good one from a wrecker should be available.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

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Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:26 pm

Im basically doing this on junkyard parts not cause im cheap but because im broke. I got a welder at the house and my brother knows how to use it so the welding shouldnt be an issue. And 1" angle metal is pretty cheap 3-4$. Junkyard alternator shouldnt be more than 50$ or 60$ and then i just gotta find the right size belt.

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 pm

How does the pulley bolt up? Is there a special type of bolt i need to use so that it wont spin free? Ive never attempted anything like this before.

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:19 am

And what amp is the max that can be hooked in to a 85 1200 LTD?

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AZgl1800
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:34 am

You are confusing Amps with Voltage.

The battery and the bike's ignition system will only pull as much current as needed.
Has zero to do with the Alternator's amp capacity, unless the alternator can't supply the necessary load.

An Alternator with more capacity is good, but not necessary.
The bigger one can support more lights and bigger horns, and heavy bass amplifiers for the sound system.

The larger amp capacity alternators will have a larger frame size, so that is going to be the critical dimension
~John

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:45 am

Size of the alt is the issue. An alt for a 1988 Firefly 1.0 litre will fit nicely. Have to cut the rear support foot off flush with the casing. Picked one up here for $30.00 CDN. It is 55 amps, about 15 amps more than the 500 watt alternator.

There is a longer bolt required. Use blue loctite on it when installing. Will look for the info on what I bought for the blot and spacers (bearings).

Using a pulley from an'85 Honda power steering pump, you will have to round the centre hole a bit. It has a flat spot that needs to be rounded. It is a friction fit on the bolt and I have not had it move.

I will get the belt number for you as well when I get home after the holidays. It is from Napa so you should be able to source down there.

Need to push the rad out a bit. Will get this information as well. I pushed the bottom and top out 1". The bottom is with metric 1" unions.


The top of the rad was pushed out by replacing the upper hose with one that was 1" longer. When you do this, you have to push in on the top of the rad to install the rad cap. Small inconvenience for good clearance.

While you are at it, you may want to replace the OEM horns. I installed FIAMMS freeway blasters in the lower fairings beside the cornering lights, a tight fit but work well. Would have to rewire through a relay as these horns take a lot more power.

Have a good and safe holiday season.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:44 pm

Thank you for the specific information i feel alot more confident about being able to complete this now. And i asked about the amp of the alternator because i found a 90amp one that is actually quite small in size and will fit in the space without even having to modify the lower fairing beyond taking out the vent ducting. And when i say i found it thats exactly what i mean it was in my shed and didnt even know it was there till a few days ago.

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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by thrasherg » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:36 pm

That's a lucky find, hope it actually works. With this kind of luck, you might want to go and buy some lottery tickets!! :lol:

Gary

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Do you know what size bolt that is that i need to mount the new pulley? Im gathering up all the parts for a friday morning install. Once this is done i just gotta swap the tires out and im back on the road finally. Im trying to make this as quick and painless as i can.

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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by DenverWinger » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:27 am

Before you install your "found" alternator on the bike might not hurt to take it to the local auto parts and have them put it on the test jig, just to be sure. They'll usually do that for free. That way you won't have to take it back off.....
They say 98% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road..... The other 2% made it home. :lol:
(I stole this from somebody on another GW site...) :roll:

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:39 pm

I already did it works great.

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:02 pm

Well had to order an alternator cause i couldnt find a v belt pulley for the one i have. So i have the crank pulley installed and nice and snug on there. Once the new alternator shows up weds or thursday ill be able to get this thing finished up.

That said what do i need to know about the wiring as this one is a 1 wire alternator so do i just run from the alternator to the positive battery terminal and unplug the rec/reg? Or do i leave the rec/reg connected? And do i need to fuse the line from the alt to the battery or hook it up to some other spot or both lol?

This should be the last of the information i need and with any luck ill be back on the road friday or sat next week. Ill post pics once i got it done.

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AZgl1800
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by AZgl1800 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:23 pm

Yes,

Remove all wiring to the existing rectifier/regulator and remove it too.

since it is a 1 wire alternator, run the positive wire straight to the battery through a fuse of the appropriate size. This is to prevent a fire just in case that wire gets shorted to ground between the alternator and the battery. Or, just maybe, the alternator develops an internal short?

( don't think I have ever seen that happen, but if a diode shorts, it might )
~John

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:56 am

Oh good so this is gonna be nice and easy. 1 wire and chop out the reg/rec. Sweet makes things nice and easy. But im not sure what size fuse to put in there as the mini alternator i ordered is 110amp so would i be putting a 110A fuse in there? And if so where would o find one of those?/ do they even exist?

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AZgl1800
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by AZgl1800 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:27 am

The alternator might be capable of supplying 110 amps, but it will never be asked to provide that much current on your bike.

a 50 amp fuse should be more than ample for what you are doing.
The bike originally got along just fine with a stator that maxed out at 27 amps.

Most likely, you will not ever be adding more than maybe another 8-10 amps at most, even if you put a lot of extra lights on it.
~John

Chompper26
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Chompper26 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:43 am

I thought the ltd was running a 40amp stator or somewhere close to that. I know the ltd and sei models had a higher output stator than the carb models did. Im just not sure what the original amps were on them. But either way ill find me a high amp fuse and just be happy to not have to worry about the power supply on my bike again.

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AZgl1800
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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by AZgl1800 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:11 am

the SEi and LTD do have a larger stator, but I don't know how much current it provides.

if the OP mentioned that, I overlooked it.

he just mentioned that he has a 110 Amp capable alternator to use for his Poorboy install.
I just wanted to clarify that Alternators do NOT push current, they provide voltage and current capability if needed.

The internal regulator will take care of the voltage, the current drawn by lights, ignition, horn, radios, GPS, accessories, will determine how many amps will be needed from that alternator.

If that gets as high as 40 amps, I will be greatly surprised.
~John

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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:23 am

The '85 LTD alternator is ~500 amps (at 5000 RPM) and the system has 30 amp fuses. Depending on what voltage value you use 12 VDC or 14.2 VDC will give you the amp number. Approximately 40 and 35 amps (at 5000 RPM) respectively. A 50 amp in-line circuit breaker should be fine. When you hook the alternator up to the battery you will get a lower voltage reading on the dash voltmeter, has to do with hooking the alternator output directly to the battery, been there done that.

The other alternative, and the one I prefer, is to hook the alternator output to the red/white regulator wires in the electrical harness where the old regulator would be. This will give you the same reading on the dash voltmeter and at the battery, and use the electrical system as designed.

Another plus to connecting the alternator output wire to the red/white wire(s) where the old regulator was located is that the electrical system voltage sensing is done trough the alternator output wire. Connecting the wire here versus at the battery reduces lag time for the alternator to compensate for load changes. We may not notice it, but it does make a difference.

Regarding the wiring, the two red/white wires from the regulator and the two green (ground) wires from the regulator are joined into one wire just after these wires disappear into the wiring harness. I have removed all the old wiring from the harness. If you only cut the red/white wires back so that they are out of the way, these wires will still be live at all times. The black wire to the regulator will also be live when the ignition switch is on.

This is because there is a join in the wiring harness directly below the gas fill where the red wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch and the res/white wire to the starter solenoid from the regulator are joined together. This schematic shows how the wires are connected:


Another suggestion is to remove all the old wiring, yellow and red/white wires entirely and rewire as per this very basic schematic (you will not have a sensing wire):


I did exactly this where the old regulator was located - have no pictures of my install but will have in the new year. I installed a power bus bar - Blue Sea product with cover - hooked the alternator output to the bus bar (reduced the wire run - only needed about 12 inches of 8 gauge wire instead of 3 to 4 feet, new 10 gauge back to the battery, and connected the ignition red wire to the bus bar. I connected my battery tender wires to this bus bar as I use this connection for heated clothing and the likes when on the road. This bus bar also allows you to connect other loads to the system without having battery terminal illness going on:


This can be done later. Most time is spent removing the old wiring, especially since there is a join between the red and red/white wires in the wiring harness. The yellow wires pull through fairly easy.

The charging system as we call it is really a misnomer, it's really a power generating system. Once the bike is started and the battery is recharged, there is very little current flow to the battery, just a trickle charge and the battery is a low current load to the system. The remaining power generated - at least 99% - is for the bike operation. Connecting the alternator output directly to the battery, not done from the factory or in the auto industry, puts a lot of current at 14.2 VDC at the battery all the time. The design of the system where the alternator output wire and the power feed to the ignition switch are joined well before the battery connection reduces this considerably as the battery is resisting current flow, and the system is wanting current flow, win/win all round.

Just a few of my thoughts for consideration. and MHO.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: Alternator conversion kit.

Post by WingAdmin » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:12 pm

Chompper26 wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:56 am
Oh good so this is gonna be nice and easy. 1 wire and chop out the reg/rec. Sweet makes things nice and easy. But im not sure what size fuse to put in there as the mini alternator i ordered is 110amp so would i be putting a 110A fuse in there? And if so where would o find one of those?/ do they even exist?
The fuse is not there to protect the alternator. The fuse is there to protect the wiring on the bike. So if the bike wiring was designed to take 40 amps, then that's the fuse you put there.



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