Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )


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SilverDave
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Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by SilverDave » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:49 pm



My 1200 battery froze ( It was REALLY cold here !! )
.... so I moved it into basement to slowly warm up .

The present voltage after warm up is now 8.1 volts . Case does not seem cracked .

Is it safe to put it on a trickle charger for a day or two to try and bring it back to life ??

Or should I just trash it ? ( A Wing is a heavy bike to try to push start ... LOL )

SilverDave



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AZgl1800
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:52 pm

I would go ahead and make an attempt to recharge it, a battery tender will never get it back up though.

but, having frozen already, it most likely was discharged way too low, and is now junk.

I have been able to make a battery like that work for a little while, as long as, when it is parked, the battery tender sits on it all the time.

but, one night alone, w/o the charge and it failed me.
~John

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by themainviking » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Like AZ mentioned, the battery is probably toast, however, if you have a smart charger with a desulphate setting, you might be able to bring it back. It all depends on firstly, if the freezing warped any plates, and two, if it is past its useable life anyway. Ensure that it is totally thawed before putting a charger on it. I have seen some horrendous results of putting a charge to a frozen battery. You do not mention if it is a liquid lead acid battery, but I am making the assumption that it is. After charging it, if you can get it to charge up to above 12 Volts, test the acid with a hygrometer. If any cell is not up to at least the green, the battery is toast. Usually, with small lead acid batteries for motorcycles, it is not worth saving a battery that can be purchased for under a hundred bucks unless you already have the charger and hygrometer.
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AZgl1800
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:13 pm

I was once told, that a battery has 3 lives.

Let it go flat once, and it has lot 33% of its' lifespan.

let it go flat twice and it has lost 2/3rds of it lifespan.

I know for a fact, that if you mistreat batteries, they will not give you years of service.

Treated correctly, they give you ten years or more....
and that depends on the climate they are subjected to.

When I lived in Arizona, mistreat the battery once during the August 118* daily sunshine period, and that battery is just about going to be toast.... it will not be dependable for very long... a few weeks maybe. In the Phoenix area, it is not uncommon to have six to nine weeks of 110* plus days in a row without any let up.....

I can remember my first experience with living in Mesa, AZ.... 1992, I would wake up to 111* on the porch thermometer day after day, and that at 0530..... I had to be on the job at 0600

I also remember the $350-$450 air conditioning bills :(
~John

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:40 pm

Dave - it's not cold there. Northern Ontario - going to -40 tonight without the wind chill. Garage I'm working in is toasty warm though.

I would bite the bullet and go new. My reasoning is that if the battery froze at your temps, it was on it's way out with the internal battery mixture being more water than a mix of electrolyte and water. It takes a lot to freeze a battery in good working order when temps are around 0 deg C. You can put a charge into it, but it will probably not last.

I agree with AZgl1800 - we abuse batteries more than we take care of them.

Have a safe holiday season.

Cheers
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by julimike54 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:44 am

Per this site:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/faq/
9. Can a flooded battery freeze?
The only way that a battery can freeze is if it is left in a state of partial or complete discharge. As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92º F (-69º C). At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16º F (-9º C).

Others basic answer is the battery was discharged before it froze and now it won't come back properly. Worst case I see is try to charge and discover it won't hold a charge and then buy a battery :lol:
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:30 pm

Another consideration with a battery that has been frozen is that your charging system is not meant to charge a depleted battery, it is meant to top up the battery after it starts the bike, or after it has provided supplemental power to the electrical system when the alternator is not generating enough power. This is a short term power input into the battery, then it reverts to a trickle charge per say.

Using the charging system to continuously pump voltage into a bad battery could cause damage to the charging components especially on these older systems.

Since your charging system is working well and has for many years, tempting fate may not be a good thing.

Just a thought.
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by twocams » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:27 am

Never try to charge a battery that is frozen. They make a hellofamess when they explode. :o There was a guy at the auto hobby shop (USAF talk) in South Dakota that blew up when the guy hooked up a charger. Almost got him in the face. :shock:

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by wiretician » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:14 am

Since your battery probably bit the dust. You might consider an AGM battery. They hold up to lower temperatures and don't need any monitoring of fluid levels. Just the occasional clean the terminals. I've found that they typically last 8 - 10 years. Since I ride year-round, the cold is a factor. It does get down to the lower end of the 20's and upper teens in Georgia. Haven't missed a lick with a good AGM.
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by SilverDave » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:25 pm

After 2 days of careful warming , and thawing , the voltage was 6.8 ( Ugh )
but after another 2 days of low trickle charging ( 2 amp )

It reads 13.05 this morning ..

So I guess its down to the battery dealer to get it load tested ..
That 13 volts might just be a surface charge .

SilverDave

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by wiretician » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:06 pm

Batteries are fickle, they can sometimes built and show good voltage, but under a load, they have nothing and drop out to near zero or way below usable current. Since, the battery shops will test for free, I'd have it tested and go from there. Another thought on an AGM, we have a Voltex dealer here in town. They have the AGM and flooded lead-acid batteries, but don't be afraid of getting the seconds on the AGM. It is one with a scratch or didn't pass the pressure test the first try. They epoxy the caps in place and re-test the battery, and passes. They just can't sell it as a first if it pops a cap. I've had a second in each of my wings, without problems. Told one of my Harley friends about the AGM, he got one (4-5 years ago) and loves not having to always check the water level. Besides the seconds are about half the cost of a new, and about the same as a flooded lead-acid.
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by julimike54 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 pm

SilverDave wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:25 pm
After 2 days of careful warming , and thawing , the voltage was 6.8 ( Ugh )
but after another 2 days of low trickle charging ( 2 amp )

It reads 13.05 this morning ..

So I guess its down to the battery dealer to get it load tested ..
That 13 volts might just be a surface charge .

SilverDave
Did you get any answer, or are you frozen in place? :)
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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by SilverDave » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:59 am

Well I waited till the driveway was more or less clear of ice ... LOL... before driving to my battery dealer

The battery came off the charger the last time at 12.98 volts, and after a day was down to 12.61..

The load test at the dealer passed, more or less, and his digital load tester said it had 235 CCA .
( What was the original on that type, I wonder ?? 260 CCA ? 280?)

He said it would be " good " for one more season ..

But apparently I purchased it in early 2013.. 5 years .. pretty good for a small battery ..
and he offered me a " Motorcycle Show" price on a new AGM battery

So I think that old battery goes in the riding tractor, and I will be buying his new AGM in mid March
( When they stop putting salt and sand on our local roads ...)

=====================
Any pros or Cons from this board on AGM batteries?
I have heard they often "Die " with no warning ..

But they are maintenance free ... What does one do with the small overflow tube , If I go AGM ??

SilverDave

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:39 am

You won't regret going with an AGM. Get a Battery Tender, leave it connected when not riding, and you could be using the same battery for the next ten years.

The tube gets left unconnected.

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by AZgl1800 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:52 pm

+2 on WingAdmin's suggestion.

I keep Battery Tenders on all of my small, and some not so small batteries.

For Instance, I have a 1,000 CCA Deep Cycle battery on my Toy Hauler trailer.
it has to power the electric jack motor when lifting the Suburban up about 12 inches higher than normal, so that I can easily slide the Equalizer Bars over the support brackets.... much easier on my back :D

That Deep Cycle battery has a tender on it all the time when we are not going anywhere.
It is a very expensive battery, and I would like to get ten years out of it, not just one summer.


My EazyGo electric golf cart is used like a tractor around my six acres.
There are six 6 bolt batteries in that thing, at $200 a pop, I don't want to loose them.
So, I keep it on the Tender all the time it is not in use.

It pulls my m/c trailer everywhere, which is used to haul debris from where it falls, to the burn pile, or a lot of dirt to replace what the gophers have ruined, or where the Pyrenees has decided to mine for gophers all the way to China.
~John

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Re: Frozen battery ( safe to re-charge )

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:29 pm

A friend of mine in just outside Ottawa, Ontario has a charging station in his basement for all his off season battery requirements. He has a charger for each battery depending on the size. Has had batteries last for 10+ years.

Agree with John and Wingadmin, batteries are just too expensive not to take care of. Lived on a boat for 5 years and the Lifeline 8D batteries at $900.00 a pop - had four of them - got some good TLC at all times. Also used Trojan L16P 6 Volt, 420 AH Deep Cycle Batteries on a 30 foot boat - qty 4 - for weekend getaways.

Cheers


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